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Verizon claims that net neutrality violates their First and Fifth Amendment rights

0. phoneArena 05 Jul 2012, 16:05 posted on

In a major shift in legal strategy, Verizon is no longer merely arguing that the FCC lacks a mandate to regulate network neutrality, but that any such law would be a violation of their Constitutional rights...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 16:26 1

9. jsoliz1985 (Posts: 23; Member since: 08 Dec 2011)


If I decide to leave Verizon for "greener pastures" then where would you suggest I go? I'm already used to the speed of LTE and I don't want to go to a slower carrier. T-Mobile interests me but with my double the data plan of 10gb/$50 its hard to make the switch.
Any suggestions?

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 17:34 1

24. ghostnexus (Posts: 96; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)


Believe me there is nothing greener than Verizon

posted on 17 Jul 2012, 11:46

62. LostInTheRed (Posts: 85; Member since: 03 May 2012)


(I know this is an older post, by what they hay). T-Mobile would be a pretty good choice. 10GB would be $65 for the data, but with that you also get mobile hotspot as well. With unlimited talk and text you're looking at $125/month before taxes. Verizon, even with their new share everything plan, would cost you $140 before taxes.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 16:27 10

10. Pippy (Posts: 2; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)


"asserting their Fifth Amendment right against the unreasonable seizure of private property without compensation" - Seriously Verizon?? Your compensated through your subscriber's monthly fees.. What about the rights of your subscribers and their ability to use data they compensated you for as they choose. Freakin' corporate America. Give me your money, but don't expect to get what you paid for.

"Verizon argues that broadband network owners should be given editorial discretion about what goes over their networks, analogous to how newspapers owners have discretion over what gets printed in their papers" people knowingly purchase predetermined content when they buy a paper, magazine, etc, data access is NOT the same. We're paying for access internet service, not YOUR content. Home internet access ins't censored for the same reason, we're paying for access to content of our choosing, not pre-selected content. If you want to decide what goes over your nextwork, then charge .25 / day like a newspaper.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 16:30 8

11. jmoita2 (Posts: 930; Member since: 23 Dec 2011)


I find it hard to believe the US Supreme Court actually set the precedent the corporations are people... mind boggling.

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 11:32 2

52. roscuthiii (Posts: 2232; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)


Less boggling when you consider all that lobbyist money that was being thrown around. Nope, nothing quite like legalized bribery.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 16:37 5

12. hornetmx (Posts: 71; Member since: 12 Mar 2010)


So far not one of the responses here actually helps the argument. It only leads me to believe none of you have any clue of what this is really about. So you want the government telling you, or a corporation, or whomever what you can and cant do that? As a matter of fact i will not even try. I think most of you can careless and just want to troll away. Id like the FCC to tell verizon it cannot longer offer unlimited data plan because its slowing dow servers and see how many troll would get in here and fire away. Please try...at least try to put 5 seconds into what you are actually posting......

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 16:53 6

15. jmoita2 (Posts: 930; Member since: 23 Dec 2011)


So using your own words you do agree then that corporations are people, and have civil and human rights???

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 16:58 9

16. Scott_H (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Oct 2011)


@hornetmx - everyone thinks the governement should tell people (and corporations) what to do some of the time (e.g. you surely think the government should tell people that they can't commit murder or steal from you) and nobody thinks the government should make all of our decisions for us.

The real issue is that there isn't broad agreement as to how much regulation is good, and even among those who want broad control there isn't agreement about where it should be placed.

This isn't an either-or proposition, and reasonable people can fall on either side of the issue.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 17:06 7

18. corporateJP (Posts: 2458; Member since: 28 Nov 2009)


So, the government taking the thin air that we call spectrum, leasing it to a corporation, then having the corporation sell it back to the people at quite a large premium is good and fine with you?

Personally, I have no problem with it myself, I'll just let my wallet talk when my contract is up.

But, I refuse to be told when and where I can go with that thin air I'm being sold.

It's borderline censorship, because that's where it's going.

This is essentially the same as one of the carriers saying: "Hey, now you pay $50 a month for 1GB of data on your phone, but guess what? You can only use Blockbuster and Slacker, you won't be allowed on Hulu, Netflix, or Pandora...enjoy!"

I'm against big government and fully support capitalism, but in some cases the government needs to step in and protect the consumer, just like it did in the AT&T-T-Mobile deal.

The only person, by the look of it, that is trolling in this forum is you, good buddy.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 18:46 5

30. Slammer (Posts: 1515; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)


Actually, you are incorrect.

Verizon is looking to styfle Government intervention at a time when Net Neutrality is k of key interest. Verizon is of private sector that may own their infrastructure, but, the spectrum and internet are publically owned and funded. We as consumers elect our government officials and fund the government through taxes to defend our rights.

Now, avoiding how we may personally feel about government, the point is that Verizon wants to have complete control over what we are to be allowed to access or be denied. They can have complete control over charging us what ever they feel necessary for something we own.

I hope you would revisit your post and think of the huge dividends we would potentially have to pay out to carriers for internet access. Make no mistake my friend, this fight from Verizon would benefit them greatly while we forfeit our ownership of a publically funded electronic library.

John B.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 16:38

13. hornetmx (Posts: 71; Member since: 12 Mar 2010)


My comment was made in regards to #1-7 just to be clear

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 18:22 3

28. corporateJP (Posts: 2458; Member since: 28 Nov 2009)


Your comment is trolling in itself.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 16:59 5

17. downphoenix (Posts: 3165; Member since: 19 Jun 2010)


Verizon doesn't have any 1st or 5th admendment rights. Those only apply to people. Oh wait...

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 17:19 8

21. DroogV59 (Posts: 37; Member since: 02 Jun 2011)


Let`s not forget that if this trash actually passes muster with the courts, it won`t just allow Verizon to better f*** you, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mo will be getting out the vaseline jar as well. You have been warned.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 17:39 5

25. skymitch89 (Posts: 1354; Member since: 05 Nov 2010)


If any thing about this goes through, we can start saying goodbye to all our other freedoms. I bet the forefathers of this country are rolling over the with the way that this country is being run.

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 02:14

47. quakan (Posts: 1395; Member since: 02 Mar 2011)


The forefathers would be lost right now and wouldn't know how to feel just like many other Americans.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 19:21 2

33. Masher (Posts: 3; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)


These guys at Big Red wake up in the morning on a daily basis and ask themselves: "How are we going to **** on our customers today?" The only people that aren't smart enough to buy into it are their field employees or somebody on their payroll. Joe Public is catching on to this little game, and alot faster than they think. "What's next?" is the only real question, and the answer will show once that last straw is tossed on the camel's back by their rediculously dumb CFO and the rest of the overpaid cashmongers in their corporate offices. Somebody should have saw this coming the day the government let them eat up all these smaller carriers like Alltel. It's a shame, it used to be a really good company until they started raping their loyal customers. I myself will be porting out in the next few days, I care less about 4G, as it is way overated and goes down too often, and when it's capped and soon to be exploited to take you where they only want you to go, it will be so much better! To all the naysayers and Verizon employees...have fun taking it in the rear, enjoy your overpriced plans and dumbed-down internet, as you'll be losing more than just me down the road. You're a bunch of elitest pricks and I won't miss you a bit!

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 09:19

51. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)


Not all of us are "elitest pricks" as you say, and to generalize a group of people like that that you don't know is a fundamental problem with so many people these days. Not all people fit so neatly into your little groups. I have many happy customers at my location that enjoy doing business with us because we DO GIVE A SH*T about our customers!

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience with VZW, and if you feel the need to leave, so be it. You have to do what makes you happy and fills your needs. That is your right and I'll defend anyone's right to choose.

But, don't you dare insult and abuse people you don't know, because YOU are NOT everyone. YOU DO NOT speak for everyone.

Now, go enjoy abusing the employees at ATT, T-MO, Sprint, or whatever service you choose, b/c I will bet that you will see similar changes to pricing plans with those carriers within the next year or two as well. Good day sir.

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 19:46

58. corporateJP (Posts: 2458; Member since: 28 Nov 2009)


^LOL. You kind of just proved that dude right, dare I say, you "fed the troll".

And, I have to say, that person's mentality may not speak for everyone, but most Verizon customers are starting to feel that way.

Wise up.

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 19:26 7

34. sprockkets (Posts: 1611; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)


You guys suck at this. Read the 284 comments here.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/verizon-net-neutrality-violates-our-free-speech-rights/?comments=1#comments-bar

THEY have it right, like this dude:

"This isn't private property sitting around being used for recreation by the Verizon family, it's commercial activity, and inherently inter-state in virtually all cases."

"Contrary to legal precedent, corporations are NOT people. They cannot vote. They cannot be drafted into the military. They have no inherent right to Free Speech. Even with their allowance of speech, Free Speech is not absolute. It is regulated even in countries that cherish Free Speech.

Corporations operate under restrictions to the benefit of society. Free and open internet encourages free speech. Verizon is claiming their free speech is more important than any of their customers. They should be called out on this anti-consumer position."

"This could be an interesting study in the absurdity of granting constitutional protections intended for people to a meta-person, in this case a company.

1) Who is Verizon?
2) How is this regulation stiffling that 'speech'?
3) If this goes through, how much longer before every company has a RIGHT to do whatever it is it does because not letting them do so will violate their 5th Amendment rights?

I like how they're ignoring a massive section of what their network is, and only focusing on one aspect of it in order to get what will ultimately be a phyrric victory if they win, because that argument will then apply to all the networks they interface with, and the property rights of every user of their network which will NOT be able to be controlled with a non-contractual TOS, and will hence open Verizon up to massive litigation if it's upheld.

Someone isn't thinking through the consequences of their rant."

posted on 05 Jul 2012, 23:05 3

40. JC557 (Posts: 1778; Member since: 07 Dec 2011)


After today, Verizon Wireless is full of s**t and I wouldn't trust them on this topic. If they weren't the only ones that can provide good service in the places I go I would've left ages ago.

My situation:

Unfortunately, the Worry Free Garantee is major BS. Prior to doing the transaction I was told repeatedly that my Unlimited Data would stay in place seeing as how it should be just an exchange. Well the reps at the data center said nope and then me and the customer service rep at the counter were given such a headache and run around when trying to revert my service back to my old phone. It took 2 hours to make things right but the Corporate Center was really trying to force me into the new plan even with my old phone.

It turns out Verizon will give you a lot of bulls**t and wil make an effort in getting you onto their new data plans. Just for that I will start "abusing" my Unlimited Data and download/ stream as much as I can. The bastards that they are....

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 00:16

42. Bluesky02 (Posts: 1439; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)


I hope they succeed in their fight against FCC

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 00:44 6

44. MorePhonesThanNeeded (Posts: 645; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)


Ohh look another individual who thinks that this won't affect them negatively should Verizon win this battle with the FCC.

Think about it slowly, Verizon is trying to tell the FCC that the airwaves that they rented from the Government(which is for the people by the people) that once they rent the airwaves they have the right to do with it as they please. Now the said airwaves are owned forever by the Government because they are for public consumption and use, so corporations like VZW, ATT and TMobile cannot own any of it. The government is run by 3 heads to keep itself in check, none of these companies are tripartite, they are run by money coming in from consumers, they have no loyalty to anything but that cash influx.

In order to maximize cash, this fight should they win will mean that VZW can force you to use whatever features and programming they offer and block anyone else you may want to use. Basically, you would be stuck using Blockbuster crappy service for movies and blocked from connecting to Netflix when you are using VZW data networks. If you want that type of crap then by all means wish them well. I want no part of this, not sure how a corporation became a person when it cannot vote, be drafted or anything that actual person(s) do.

This should be struck down hard by the courts as it is only opening a pandoras box, because if you let VZW do this, then everyone else will come running claiming the same crap and well can you imagine the new revenue stream that cable internet providers can come up with to siphon more money out of you and your family. Carriers are trying to fight the future of being dumb pipes, I think it's better that the become dumb pipes, they take way too much money for meager services don't you think? Check you VZW bill for all the regulatory charges and what not that stuff is almost 33% of your total bill, incredible. No thank you cell providers don't need anymore power than they already have, like the fact that you are forced to have a data plan with a smartphone, what sort of tyrannical nonsense is that? Let me get only phone service I will use WiFi for data when I want to go online.

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 19:47

59. corporateJP (Posts: 2458; Member since: 28 Nov 2009)


I'd rather side with the FCC on this one, for a change.

Just sayin'...

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 08:20 1

48. becazican (Posts: 52; Member since: 09 Nov 2011)


i think people should do what they did with bank of america, when they tried to screw the american public. QUIT THEM!!!!!. hit them in their pocketbooks and see how fast they fall in line. they will start controling everything, so the public wont decide what service they like best , verizon will tell them. hmmmm open market .sounds more like a communist thought.

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 08:51 1

50. dcgore (Posts: 231; Member since: 24 Feb 2012)


Verizon obviously wants more and more money, incredible! Once net nutrality goes, VZ can say that sending data to a smartphone is and should be more expensive compared to a home or office; data "should" not be all the same. They charge more based on "peak" hours and whatnot.

Stop being greedy Verizon, clearly you are a corporation, not a two legged individual.

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 11:37 2

53. roscuthiii (Posts: 2232; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)


Anyone familiar with 'Animal Farm'? Reminds me of its. "All animals are created equal. [Some animals are created more equal than others.]"

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 13:10 2

54. iami67 (Posts: 321; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)


If verizon starts telling customers what sites or apps we can and can not use im sure most of the smart phone users would leave and go else were. I know I would

posted on 06 Jul 2012, 13:23 1

55. Zero0 (Posts: 592; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)


I am not a lawyer, but here goes:
-The government sometimes uses Eminent Domain to obtain property, then sells the land to companies with the stipulation that the land must remain open for public use. Government has the ability to sell land and control its use afterwards, so it follows that they have the ability to control the use of any type of property that they lease or sell, including spectrum. (Specifically, in the case of LTE, Verizon agreed to the Open Network and Open Device policies. They are under contract. It's going to be really hard to get out of that one.)
-The First Amendment does not protect the right to say/do everything. "Free speech" does not fully exist. There are exceptions. Specifically, if speech creates danger, the speech may be restricted. It can be argued that breaking net neutrality creates a danger of monopolies forming on the Internet.

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