The power of the 1% over mobile devices (expandable memory and removable batteries)
0. phoneArena 31 Mar 2012, 13:35 posted on
If there is anything that we try to do consistently, it is to point out that personal opinion does not equal one side of a right/wrong argument. There is a growing trend of manufacturers not including SD card slots or...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
23. chadrick0814 (Posts: 208; Member since: 23 Nov 2011)
I also don't think the ease of transferring data with an SD card can be overlooked. Its easier to move large files between tablets and phones with an sd card rather than the cloud. Its easier to get pictures developed from your phone by using the micro SD. Clouds were initially intended to back up data and not be a primary or secondary storage method. On long flights, overseas especially, you don't have cloud access and that's when you would most want you music and videos. Having an SD card slot doesn't deny anyone the right to use a cloud service. The intent is to force consumers to use the cloud. You pay the manufacturer for the service and the carrier for the data. Win-Win for them. Whether you choose to use a micro SD or not, how does it hurt the consumer to have one?
30. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
Well put, @chadrick0814 I been posting a million time exactly this. The more data they can force you to use, the more money they get. People, (99%) Fools are very comfortable with this new trend, or maybe don't travel at all. LOL! This BS about get with the program or get left behind. If so I am off the dam Android bus. LOL!
24. PostalJim (Posts: 46; Member since: 01 Sep 2011)
So, i will just have a limited number of phones to choose from. I guess I have no choice but to deal with it. Don't have to like it, but I do have to deal with it.
I LOVE being able to change out a battery, and to be able to record long videos on my sd card and just pop it my laptop and have it to edit, play share as I like. With no SD, if i shoot some videos and pics, then I am limited on what I can download or capture on my cam.
I like living without limits. Just can't bear the thought of a KILLER device that would make me settle like iPhone users. Had one. Liked it. Sold it. Android now.....soon...Windows Phone. Android is slowly dying unless Google can defrag their OS's and make everything update across the board as iOS and Windows do.
In 3 years, I can see Android being like Blackberry, an after thought......I hope they fix this before they lose the interest of all developers.
31. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
Well put @PostalJim, I see this also in about 3 years. Oh, Android made his bed, now he has to sleep on it. LOL! I'm a Mac user, never owed an iPhone. I guess when the next one comes out, I can say I am 100% Apple user. LOL! Don't like, But that the way I will deal with this mess of Android trend. Oh yeah, I know I'm just 1%, LOL!
60. bayusuputra (Posts: 961; Member since: 12 Feb 2012)
haha! you always said that you will get out of this android trend blah blah blah.. but in case you are not intelligent enough, apple doesn't offer you removable battery and expandable storage.. oh, and that iCloud, it is governed by apple, i am not really sure how secure it is, whether apple accesses your data or not.. usually the bigger the brand is, the more control it has over you.. i am less sceptical on dropbox or box.net, and best of all, i can share them across ALL devices, whether mine, or not..
and this is for you personally: LOL!
63. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
intelligent enough to have phoneareana write about this because of my direct email to them, LOL! I am aware of iCrap iPhone flaws, Hence the reason I LOVE Android you fool, My point is if my only choice is this crap of no removable battery or expansion, then I will go with the BEST! Apple iPhone and cloud service. It is as NY Times put it extremely secure. Large hard drive in the iPhone. So I am aware...
25. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
"Beyond that, we're also learning that leaving your device on a charger all night after the battery has hit 100% can be quite bad for the lifetime health of your battery. The extra heat from being left on a charger after the battery is full can cause irreparable damage to your battery, and depending on how hot the battery gets, you could lose more than 35% of your battery's capacity over the course of a year. So, it may be better overall to charge your phone more frequently, but not to full capacity each time. "
I just wanted to point out that my general training in this area+ everything I've read disagrees with a chunk of this statement.
Li-Ion batteries, if you want to think of them in 1 way, have a finite amount of charges before the cell just wont charge anymore. Depending on the quality of the battery it could be a low number (400-700) or a high number (700+). The numbers I gave were not hard numbers, but just for demostration.
Every time you plug in the phone, thats 1 charge. So, charging it often yet incompletely doesnt help your longevity as you are wearing down the charging cell more quickly than normal. On the reverse side of the equasion you have the people that charge it nightly. The point you missed that hurts the battery even more than the heat from charging, is leaving it on all night. Again, not because of the heat, but because just about every phone in existance stops charging when it gets at or near 100%, then stops the charge... when the charge gets so low, like at 90% for example, it charges again. This cycle repeats over and over and over again until you unplug the phone. Thus, every time it turns itself off and then on again, is a charge cycle.. which as I just mentioned, reduces battery life.
The only real option for battery longevity (and the least realistic) is to charge it fully, then pull it off the plug until its empty from use and repeat. The only way to do that realistically if you have a life at all, is to carry multiple batteries. So basically, no matter what, we are screwed. :)
Side question, didnt the Sprint OneX have some massive 2500mah battery in it? I swear I remember seeing that somewhere.
33. biophone (Posts: 1900; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Lol didn't see your post till after i posted. Well then i guess 400-700 charges should last about 2 years right in time for a new phone.
47. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
ha, thats if your not charging it more than once a day, or leaving it on all night, where it probably stops and recharges 2-5 times. bottom line, we are screwed no matter what :)
49. rallyguy (Posts: 620; Member since: 13 Mar 2012)
Yes you are right. It supposedly has a 2650 mah battery.
26. trunkmonkey (Posts: 6; Member since: 31 Mar 2012)
I don't believe in the 1% "theory". 10 years ago yes this was true, but the "internet generation" is of age now. I tend to believe there are far more than 1% now a days. I can't imagine 1% put enough pressure on some mobile companies to release roms for devices they did not plan on or change their policy on bootloaders. If so then I hope the 1% pressures companies to continue to release devises with at least removable storage or at least include different skus like Apple 16GB is not alright for many. Some people are not around "secured" wifi and have capped data plans. A non removeable battery I do not like, but can live with..
27. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
I use google voice for all my music needs. Its very convenient. Especially since i have ALL of my music, everywhere I can get to a PC or anything with android on it. Having G+ back up all my pictures is awesome as well, especially since I flip roms so much.
That said, if they are going to get rid of memory cards, then 32 needs to be the "basic" and 64 needs to be more common. If i can get on amazon and pick up a 32gig card for 10 bux at retail, it cant cost them more than a couple of bux at most with their scales of economy wholesale buying. There is no excuse.
The real reason is they can price gouge the way apple does. Apple charges 100 bux more for 32gb of internal memory, which again only costs them a few bux a pop. With Android costing manufacturers money in licencing fees and lawyer costs, its a way to recoup the money by making the phones more expensive.
36. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
I totally agree with you. And Motorola has led the way charging at least $100 more to put in a big battery, so they apparently have no intention of appropriately representing that cost to the customer either.
Until that changes (or the battery they put in it lasts several days), I will eagerly seek phones that offer both features.
72. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
Dude, Amen, That is what I am saying, however we are just 1%, The 99% fool are happy go lucky with 3G, no expansion slots or no removable battery. These fool giving me flack, it is so funny how these 99% that came off the short bus are allow to even be the 99%. Oh well...
84. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
edit, that should say "i use google music". lolz: )
32. biophone (Posts: 1900; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Question: don't our phones stop charging at 100% so we can charge them for loger periods of time and it starts back up again at 95%?
37. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
I believe he used a recent iPad article to propose this idea. I have had 2 batteries for over 2 years (one on a wall charger unless I was using it for travel or a long day away from power), and I have not experienced any degradation.
Until I see a reference to a more scientific analysis of the battery technology than "the Apple people say it's bad for you", I would take this with a big grain of marketing. I mean, salt.
34. jwl3429 (Posts: 36; Member since: 28 Sep 2009)
no SD slot is all well and go but if that was the case when my droid incredible went into a rebooting loop and needed a hard reset I would have lost everything. The phones need to be more stable for me to trust them without an SD card
35. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
I too see that the cloud is the future, but data prices do not accomodate moving fully to the cloud right now. It's not about the hardware or devices, or even trust in security; it's about the carriers and coverage. My dad doesn't know what the cloud is; but he knows damn well when he can't get his info on the golf course in the middle of nowhere. When he asks me why he can't get it and I explain it, he wants to know how to put that on the phone so he never has to worry about it again.
They aren't building the cloud for me. I get it. I have Google Music. I'm cool with it. They're building the cloud for the 99%, and those people aren't going to like what they get if it is forced on them today.
Having everything in the cloud 3-5 years from now when data is sold at $1 per gig per month and the carriers have coverage penetration into thick brick buildings and out to rural areas will be cool. Having it now with limited coverage and expensive data plans is just plain dumb. Manufacturer's don't know how much space a user will need to perform typical storage, and the SD card solves that problem. As others have said, no SD is only practical (but not cost-effective) if there are multiple SKUs with varied storage, but that is not what we're seeing.
And as far as batteries go, I am totally fine with a built in battery. The problem is that devices do not make it a whole day without recharging or swapping. When you are travelling and have limited charging options and are roaming (sucking more battery), the principle of simplicity or whatever design paradigm led you to that choice fails the test of real-life usage. This is not 1% of users.
And if you are concerned about the cost of an additional battery (mine was $40 with trickle charger for 30% more charge than the original), try comparing what a manufacturer charges for a high capacity battery SKU or increased storage.
The iPhone is the single most successful device of the past 3 years. Guess which phones have sat atop the battery life charts during the vast majority of that time and offered the most built-in storage? People are satisfied with that device for many reasons, but I would argue a big one is decent battery life and big storage for those who choose.
The 1% get in line and make these phones desireable. A good chunk of the 99% buy them as a result of popularity, and the manufacturers know that.
Anyway, I agree this trend is fine. Built-in storage is fine when those of us who need more can buy a phone with more storage. Built-in battery is fine when the phones run 2+ days on a single charge. Unfortunately, that is not the reality of the market. I don't think it's a 1% thing. It's either a lack of understanding of consumer's needs, or a failure of execution.
87. little75bacon (Posts: 2; Member since: 01 Apr 2012)
i agree totally with you the cloud didn't allows yet a reasonable priced acces to your data... maybe when the carriers will be change the over priced data plans that we need to pay today the cloud becomes a option for us.
41. redrooster13 (Posts: 107; Member since: 20 Feb 2012)
OK so I have never heard of anyone going in a store and not buying a phone because it as a removable battery and a micro sd card slot. But I have heard of people going in the store and not buying a phone because it didn't have a removable battery and no micro sd card slot.
42. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
Hah! Good point. One argument that is continually trotted out (since the first iPhone) is that putting MicroSD slots in them would require the phones to be thicker.
See the Droid RAZR for the case-in-point refutation of that marketing BS.
43. redrooster13 (Posts: 107; Member since: 20 Feb 2012)
Yeah there is not thickness added for microSD. That is a load of crap.
45. _PHug_ (Posts: 429; Member since: 11 Oct 2011)
If they gave us 2800+ mah battery, I don't need a replaceable.
If they gave me 64GB internal mem, I don't need expansion.
Is that what they give me? Nope
They skimp on important stuff like that so they can focus on looks.
Uni-body 6mm thin frame? Sell that crap to the morons, I want the overweight version with 64GBs and a 3600mah battery.
92. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
OMG that phone sounds totally ugly...
but I think I might just buy it.
50. ChiX017 (Posts: 308; Member since: 09 Nov 2011)
Windows Phone is future proof; dosn't support SD cards and Skydrive is just getting better! :D
55. lukasound (Posts: 152; Member since: 16 Nov 2011)
There is absolutely no reason not to have removable batteries in phones. Loading mechanisms? Please... Covers can be made ultra thin and easy to remove - look at SGS2. The only reason is to force people to come to them and not ebay for replacement after a year or two!
And as for memory - can't you see what is happening in the world with peoples privacy and file sharing abilities??? The only reason i see to not put the SD card slot (which is practically free and doesn't take space) is to control people's data and run statistics on us! Music in the cloud? How about police knocking at my door after i upload my new Madonna album to Dropbox? Automatic photo uploading? They will be able to see even the photos i make accidentally! And data plans are a whole different reason for why not...
65. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
Well put and written, watch out there a great deal of fools here that will say your crazy, when you hit it right on the nail with this one, Amen!!! I've been blogging about this for such a long time. Everyone think I am nuts. But what you have to say is soooo true.
56. redmd (Posts: 1078; Member since: 26 Oct 2011)
So no HTC one x for me. SGS3 I'll wait for you, otherwise it's optimus 4X for me with the removable battery + micro sd combo.
58. mrandrewshah (Posts: 14; Member since: 01 Nov 2009)
We are the 1%!
I still vote for removable batteries over a slightly larger capacity for one reason. When your battery doesn't hold its charge anymore, what do you do? With a removable battery, you just buy a new one and you're good. Apple offers battery replacement, but for a hefty $79 + $7 shipping. Do you think HTC will offer a battery replacement service for its One series?
67. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
Dude, well written, I am getting so much flack for blogging about this, You are 100% right on the money. Pray this isn't a trend, However the 99% of the fools that buys anything, like a zombie dum asssss! I really don't see way the 99% or even 60% see this, they must be , dead, or dum.
85. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
great point. I got a replacement battery for my SGS1 for $15 bux online and it was a stock OEM battery, not some generic rip off.
When you go non-removable anything, you become at the mercy of the manufacturer. I'd give up removable storage (for a phone with very large internal storage) before i gave up removable battery.
90. jan25 (Posts: 456; Member since: 26 Feb 2012)
honest question; can't any phone maintenance person just do the job instead for a far more reasonable price than that of the manufacturer?
100. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
yes/no. it may be cheaper up front, but they automatically void the warranty since its not an OEM trained person doing the work. So you have no warranty if they bust anything. If you take it to the manufacturer, they will fix whatever they break under warranty. A lot of time the new repairs will have their own warranty as well.. so its up to you what you want more.
71. spindoctor55 (Posts: 18; Member since: 27 Feb 2012)
Extra batteries...50-100 bucks...Ever hear of Ebay!!! SD cards are the easiest way to place files (pics and tunes) on a device...I will not buy a phone which doesn't have both!!!
73. BattleBrat (Posts: 1292; Member since: 26 Oct 2011)
The problem i have with the cloud is that they want you to stream all your music and movies, then the carriers killed unlimited data, that is a racket if I've ever seen one, and It's not that i don't trust the cloud,it's that I don't trust their cloud. So i am prepping a Dell precision 490 workstation and will be using it as my own little cloud (as soon as they hook up my Uverse internet and my speed doubles) With WYSE Pocket Cloud Pro and Plex (an audio/video server app) available on my iTouch and my RAZR, hopefully i can have the power of a nicely powered desktop on the go. If it goes well, i will get my hands on a true to God blade and rent a couple units in a farm, we'll see. as for a removable battery, i always have an ipod touch and my RAZR on me, now let's say they both had removable batteries, it would be easier to carry and charge a single battery pack than two spare batteries.
74. BattleBrat (Posts: 1292; Member since: 26 Oct 2011)
As for phone longevity, current battery tech should last you AT LEAST two years, and TRUST ME after two years YOU WILL WANT A NEW PHONE, and non removable batteries are not a killer as long as the device provides adequate run time on the internal battery. My RAZR (NOT a MAXX) lasts 2 to 3 days per charge, so I have no problem with a non removable battery,the iPhone 4s i played with wouldn't do 10 hours JUST SITTING THERE unused (and that was with iOS 5.1, face it, the battery sucks, if it didn't i'd be using an iPhone and carrying an Android media player right now) So for the iPhone, as far as my needs were concerned, it's non removable battery was unacceptable.
75. redrooster13 (Posts: 107; Member since: 20 Feb 2012)
Wow the razr last you 2 to 3 days on one charge? Thats crazy. I don't own a razr but from what I've heard, the razr doesn't last very long.
76. BattleBrat (Posts: 1292; Member since: 26 Oct 2011)
Hmmm thumbs down, I must have pissed off an iOS fanboy, I use an iTouch, and like it, but the battery on the 4s sucks, fanboys have to face it.
Edit, damn, links aren't working, just look through my album on Photobucket, i think it is the first pic you'll see.I've posted it here before
111. redrooster13 (Posts: 107; Member since: 20 Feb 2012)
Yeah the link is not working. I believe you though.
81. cvdvds (Posts: 6; Member since: 25 Mar 2012)
I don't use the cloud because my upload speed is slow and I think having a removable battery is a must because a battery is one of the things in a phone that easily breaks after time and if you don't watch out how and when you charge it. And I don't feel like thinking all the time: "If I charge it now my battery might get damaged but if I don't I can't use it as much tomorrow."
82. VncentAaron116 (Posts: 5; Member since: 23 Jan 2012)
What is the risk of storing music in the cloud? Mainly, $$ and ease of use.
Here in certain areas of Asia and other less developed countries, the internet is slow enough that listening to music online needs BUFFERING
I want to listen to music play smoothly, not listen to one buffering from my cloud storage.
We simply do not have the proper infrastructure for cloud storage to be viable yet, that means internal storage is still very important, unless the manufacturers and Google and Apple and what not manage to bribe the government (in my country, at least) to upgrade the internet infrastructure, without ripping us off at the same time
83. rawbow (Posts: 428; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
There could be a justification too for not having a micro SD slot...i mean with all the high def features and simultaneous shot and shoot feature of the 1x, it could be a possibility that the designers thought that an external card would slow the processors down. I dont know. But it should have a replaceable battery. Anyways i will be getting the 1x no matter what. HTC sense 4.0 was impressive.
93. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
Interesting idea! I think it would be possible to solve this through software engineering (if it was an issue) by storing a photo on the local hardware first and then swapping it over to SD when necessary. Since manufacturers clearly value camera speed as a feature, I doubt they would allow the SD to stand in their way of taking fast photos, and you'd only need a few hundred megs of local storage to guarantee the experience.
That said, it actually makes me wonder what characteristics are on the NAND they install in the phone. We have stats on almost everything else, I would really love to know if some company is skimping and putting really slow built-in storage to save a few bucks!!! Hey phonearena, get on that!
108. rawbow (Posts: 428; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
exactly ...i was always interested in the read write speed of the internal memory used by the companies...and now it becomes more necessary that we focus on that too because of all the lightning speed computing. There is absolutely no point of having a processor that can score good and a RAM that works well with it if you have bad read write on the internal memory. The RAM will stay occupied both ways.
That said, if studies indicate that overall performance(includes battery life too) of the phone improves by not having a microSD, all good for me.
86. little75bacon (Posts: 2; Member since: 01 Apr 2012)
Maybe the cloud is the future, but I think that we need a huge amount of internal storage to put in all our Full H.D. Videos, photos with a big weight an others contents such H.D games that needs a huge amount of data. I can live without S.D cards if my handset is provided with a decent internal storage of at least 64GB and the price of hig speed data plans are reasonable.
89. khang (Posts: 1; Member since: 01 Apr 2012)
Just made an account just to say how well written and how immaculate this was executed! Amazing article and I have to say its making me look at non-removeable batteries and no expandable battery in a different light! Very well written article!
91. jan25 (Posts: 456; Member since: 26 Feb 2012)
i think the success of a phone like the galaxy s2 might set the standards. i don't think the people who are used to removable batteries and sd cards will give up easily on those 2 features when they realize how crucial they are. lets face it too, the "1%" support phone manufacturers with a great amount of marketing for their products and if they are not satisfied enough, well, this can mean bad news.
96. taz89 (Posts: 2014; Member since: 03 May 2011)
i need removable storage,will not get a phone without it unless the phone is a must have device.reason being is i have all my mjuisc,videos and photos etc on a single micro sd card so that everytime i get a phone all i need to do is put in the sd card and my new is ready to go
97. Dejan (Posts: 17; Member since: 24 Mar 2012)
They are soooo right tottaly agree with you guys!I hate phones with non removable batteries,I have Sony Xperia S pretty good phone,no suport for microSD cardsi and doesn't really matter to me since phone have 32GB internal storage l,for me that's enoug.What I really hate is battery and the reason is that is not removable!I hate it when the phone lags and then I have to remove my battery to restart it but there is more than 8 screws before I get to the battery which I need to screw offf!So think about it if you go somewhere out of your appertment and the phone suddenly blocks and you can't remove your battery.I mean I can't complain on the phone itself but I can complain on his battery HATE IT!!!!
99. paladinkar (unregistered)
Some people have said this and I totally agree..the point is not just that features are necessary or not necessary..it is that they represent the freedom for the consumer. I personally don't want an iPhone because of the whole walled garden "we will make decisions for you" attitude. I want the option to use my own storage and to change the card when and how I want. The other thing that I haven't seen mentioned is this about batteries: I love Android and I love tinkering with ROMs. If this is going to continue to be a reality, sometimes you need to do a hard reset..and yes this is possible by using hardware buttons, but the easiest way is to just yank the battery. This is why I would miss the removable battery...as well as the ability, once again, to have the freedom to replace it. As you said in the article Michael, batteries wear out..if my phone is two years old, I would like the option of replacing the battery and at least giving it a fighting chance at lasting more than 2 hours.
101. BattleBrat (Posts: 1292; Member since: 26 Oct 2011)
I have a 1st gen iTouch, and a Droid 1 they are SLOW (well, the Droid1 isn't too bad if I keep it clean, Netflix works WELL), a four year old phone is my idea of torture. You will WANT TO UPGRADE!, The iTouch still has it's original battery and I still get 10hours battery life listening to music, and it's five years old, The reason they suck other then the speed, is that support for them drops, and apps stop working, and cannot be upgraded. And then you are left out in the cold, it is not a pleasant feeling. The battery will be the least of your problems with a 2-4 year old device.
113. paladinkar (unregistered)
I have a T-Mobile G2x and I bought it 1 month after it came out (came out in April and I bought it in May of last year). It is nearly one year old now and yes, I would like to replace my phone and I am hoping the SGSIII comes to T-mobile with the specs (and price) that I would like, but in the meantime, I am using my year-old phone. I don't abuse its battery too much but even so, after just one year, I have seen the battery life decrease by at least half an hour. So yes, not a whole lot, but enough to be annoying. Because of my phone's removable battery, I am now free to, and I am going to, purchase the extended battery for my phone.
106. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
@paladinkar well written i been telling these fools the same thing and getting some, not much flack. nothing wrong in wanting and demanding freedom of choice. I too love tinkering with my Android.
102. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)
God damn it.
Don't let Android be like the iPhone.
I use USB Mass Storage and SD cards all the time. The cloud is too freaking slow.
Give Android users the freedom to do what they want to do, because if we don't have that, we're stooping to Apple's level.
God. Damn. It.
107. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
@Non_Sequitur, Yes I really don't want Android to be like iCrap iPhone, and I'm a Mac user for almost a million years. LOL! So lets see what new breed of Android really make it to the shelf. If not I'm going all the way to the dark side and get the up coming iPhone 5. It almost hurts to even type that out.