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Sour Grapes department: former webOS investor bashes Android

0. phoneArena 15 Dec 2012, 05:54 posted on

Elevation Partners co-founder Roger McNamee is not enamored of Android which is not surprising considering his company was a big investor in Palm and while it does seem like a case of picking the wrong horse to bet on; one of McNamee's criticisms of Android is that while the OS has overtaken Apple in volume, the majority of profits in the industry go to Apple...

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posted on 15 Dec 2012, 06:12 26

1. Hammerfest (Posts: 383; Member since: 12 May 2012)

u mad bro?

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 09:59 3

23. loyals (Posts: 129; Member since: 10 Nov 2012)

there is a lot of truth which u r not seeing . apple did transform and rebuild markets like tablets with IPAD and proper operating system for a phone with IPHONE. but android is not innovating but following . all the tablets n phones are derived from iphones/ipads . there's a lot of news about google glasses but sony has made it before n showed many times from past 4-5 years n so again its not completely google's. so where's the new innovation from google? u should really ask yourself that then u have the right to call him that.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 11:01 22

28. willard12 (Posts: 1693; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)

All ipads/iPhones are derived from other tablets and phones. Name one, just 1, thing created from Apple. Everything they are suing over they took/stole from another company. Scroll bounce and slide to unlock are copies. Pull down notifications and answering a call with a message are copies. Their biggest marketing campaigns the last two years come from Siri (bought from Nuance) and 3 year old panorama photos. How it works in this industry is simple....Android tries to implement facial unlock, Apple patents it.

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 00:27

55. loyals (Posts: 129; Member since: 10 Nov 2012)

the faicial unlock is already been implemented by apple RnD long time back. so they patented it .so lets not divert the toptic to patents here. the thing is apple is the first successful tablet n it showed others that the market has scope so as usual others just made thiers and followed .

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 18:25

69. willard12 (Posts: 1693; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)

Good. So, you can't name even 1 thing created by Apple. I haven't seen facial unlock on any iOS device. Apple takes the ideas of others and makes them popular. They are able to do because Apple has it's on culture of "loyal" followers that will take anything they do and make it popular. This is how products that can't even transfer a file via Bluetooth, support a micro SD card, or use a widget can be seen by some as "innovative." IOS can't do things feature phones were doing 10 years ago and uses the same rows of icons it always has and you say "android does not innovate." I will refer you back to my previous challenge, name 1, just 1, any 1 thing created by apple. Thanks.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 13:45 14

34. jroc74 (Posts: 6006; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

If you can sit here and say Android is not innovating, Google is not innovating.....I dont think you know what innovation is.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 17:55 8

45. XPERIA-KNIGHT (unregistered)

I litterally TRIED to listen to him and hear him out......but when i got to the part where he said

"Apple showed that a large company can not only innovate, it can transform and really rebuild markets."

I got disgusted and scrolled right on down here! Right then and there i knew he was no different from every other "blind" apple fan.....

Wow..........it really is amazing how powerful denial is


posted on 16 Dec 2012, 00:12

54. loyals (Posts: 129; Member since: 10 Nov 2012)

eh wait...do u remember the first tablet that came out and made revolution in tablet industry ?? u r living in cave or u r just blind android fan .APPLE gave scope to a entire market called tablets n it started it. thats y its always ipads and other tablets . atleast they reinvented n rebuild the dead platform that was author meant to say here. i can see u r a blind android fan thats y u r not seeing the truth . and name 1 , just 1 platform google recently build a new market or atleast rebuild.
pls dont say mobiles...the first mobile app for google was made by apple itself while they didnt even know how to make apps

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 07:54

63. jroc74 (Posts: 6006; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

See, you make a mistake that many Apple fanboys do, not saying you are one....

A product doesnt have to sell alot or be popular to be innovative. Hybrid cars n trucks. Dont sell as much as others, but they are innovative. I never questioned the guy saying Apple transformeded and rebuilt the market. Thats true.

We were talking about innovation. And you claiming Google doesnt. Compare Apple Maps to Google Maps and then tell me again Google doesnt innovate.

Apple didnt start the tablet, smartphone market....they gave it a boost, jumped started it. You might have a case about the iPad, but not the smartphone. Before the iPhone, the 'it' smartphone to have was a Blackberry.

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 00:31

56. loyals (Posts: 129; Member since: 10 Nov 2012)

tell me what google has innovated in past 3 years. android idea itself is from apple when google was working with apple for iphone2g n impressed by the idea that mobiles should have proper operating system. what else bro?? google glasses is again from sony glasses....so please tell me if im miising any innvotions here

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 02:25 2

58. groupsacc (Posts: 232; Member since: 28 Feb 2012)

Android was bought and existed before iOS.

More to the point, it all depends on one's definition of innovation.

If you define innovation as merely stealing others ideas, then yes, Google and Apple are very innovative.

If you define innovation as inventing something completely new, then no; Google is just a search-engine based company trying to generate revenue from multiple platforms, and Apple is just a copy-and-paste company wrapping up products in nice glittering wraps.

There's no point arguing who's innovative and who's not, cus at the end of the day, our whole world is based on taking other's ideas and "evolutionising".

Had Google not bought Android, we wouldn't be seeing the Android as it is today.

Had Apple not seen Xerox Alto, there wouldn't be no McIntosh.

Had Benz not invented gasoline-powered automobiles, there wouldn't be no Ferraris.

The only reason why Droid fans do not respect Apple is because they hinder others innovations by initiating lawsuits using the very "innovation" they have stolen from others and improved upon.

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 07:46

62. jroc74 (Posts: 6006; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

I already did in my first post in this article.....Google Now.

Google Now was more in house developed vs Siri. Then Siri had to get updated to offer a feature that Google Now had out the gate.

Like I said....if you dont think Google innovates....you dont know what innovation is. Remember, I never said Apple doesnt innovate. They do, IMO Apple just gets too much credit for too many things.

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 14:27 2

67. CheapSocks (Posts: 21; Member since: 07 Nov 2012)

google puts A LOT of effort into their products. Adding not just features, but enhances the the experience to a whole new level with each update. What has apple done since the release of ios? let's see, drop down notification, OOPS android had that first, multitasking, OOPS android first, panoram-OOPs, you get the point. And not only that, but android actually listens and accepts help from outside developers and letting them take charge every now and then.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 10:40 8

25. sats.mine2k4 (banned) (Posts: 208; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)

No...Hez just too frustrated, unable to compete.. i think the right word for him is down and out...

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 18:37 4

48. .MISTER.H. (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Dec 2012)

he's not mad, but he is mad! This guy has no knowledge and is talking jack, uneducated brainwashed cult!

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 06:20 17

2. jroc74 (Posts: 6006; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

Odd comments about Apple and Android when the UI, OS of Android has changed alot vs iOS. Android doesnt do much? Compared to what, a PC? Cuz compared to iOS it does much more. Cant really say vs WP as I have never used WP. Hell, Google Now vs Siri was a no contest until Siri got updated to do similar to Google Now. Even then Google Now is leading the way.

Android is the PC in the PC vs Mac wars. Look how that turned out.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 12:41 8

31. smartphone (Posts: 160; Member since: 21 Oct 2011)

Just replace Apple with Google and android with IOS and this man speaks the truth.
Apple had innovated some things but its no way leading in innovation department.
The only thing I admire of Apple is their one year smartphone cycle in others companies there's always a beast coming out next month and the temptation never ends.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 06:23 12

3. MeoCao (unregistered)

I'm sure that this guy has invested heavily in Apple, so this is his money does the talking, not the man himself.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 06:27 10

4. Jay..Apple4Ever (Posts: 16; Member since: 08 Dec 2012)

"I am really frustrated when I look at Microsoft or Yahoo or even Google, remarkably enough, because it feels to me they are not trying to innovate."

Lol? Yahoo & MS are trying but Apple and Google are killing the competition.

Not enough innovation? Have a look at google now.Blows everything else away.

"android doesn't do much" Yeah it doesn't do much because people like this are stuck in the garden and scared to look out gate to actually try something innovative.

I love apple just as much as the other guy but people who bash Android like this are clearly close minded

#Perhaps a hair cut & New prescription glasses for this guy..clearly blinded :D

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 06:51 2

5. wendygarett (unregistered)

Well that's true, besides Samsung, I don't see any other oem makes profit... They just playing the volume game... And that's dangerous in the future...

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 18:48

49. .MISTER.H. (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Dec 2012)

Your avater represents a typical name for a Apple user!

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 18:51 3

50. Commentator (Posts: 3692; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)


posted on 15 Dec 2012, 07:01 7

7. noim1 (Posts: 297; Member since: 15 May 2012)

Every1 knows who the Father of android really is & that's Google...ppl will not say Samsung is Android...they can say Samsung is the big Android OEM right NOW....and thats it....we know what we USE .....

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 07:02 9

8. frydaexiii (Posts: 1444; Member since: 01 Dec 2011)

lol, Is it opposite day or is this guy just butthurt?

Also, Apple only rebuild markets because they have quite the substantial army of sheep to kick start the sales of every piece of crap they release. Sad to say, Samsung might be going that way too, but at least they're still pulling out new stuff everytime and not stalling like Apple is right now yet.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 07:05 5

9. soshi (Posts: 154; Member since: 08 Mar 2012)

comment that really far from reality. maybe he always use apple map that make him not only lost in navigation but also in perception. google not innovate? seriously? Btw, idon't need his definition on innovation when all he can do is talking while google keep launching product that no one can think before

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 08:34

14. jroc74 (Posts: 6006; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

He woulda been better off comparing Android to WebOS. Might have had a lil more credibilty, especially since a former WebOS guy now works for Google and worked on the UI changes in Android.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 08:37 7

15. roscuthiii (Posts: 2217; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)

Looks like sour grapes makes for a bitter 'whine'.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 08:54 1

18. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)

Yup, that was my thought as well. Just another 1%-er all pissed off because a bet he made didn't pan out. BTW, he knew the bet was risky going in. Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen.

Motor scooter.... Hahaha!

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 08:51

16. predator93 (Posts: 122; Member since: 28 Aug 2012)

As a customer, if a company makes less profits its better. More people will buy an iphone or any other phone if its 100 - 200 dollars cheaper than what it is right now.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 08:51 5

17. TheRetroReplay (Posts: 254; Member since: 20 Mar 2012)

That guy is an @$$

Android does more than iOS and has changed quite a bit over the years but I think he's got his head shoved too far up his rear end to see that Apple doesn't innovate, only steal other's ideas and sue.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 09:00 4

19. droidboy (Posts: 50; Member since: 25 Nov 2012)

Bottom line the guy is an idiot. He is mad because android dethroned palm and webos when it comes to the war on apple. What an idiot... and to say android does not do much is a joke. My phone has a faster processor then my laptop. He should just go back to trying to stay in the lines when he colors.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 13:01 1

32. tedkord (Posts: 11731; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)

I agree with must of what you say, but unless you have a very old laptop, your phone's processor is not faster. It may have a faster GHz cycle, but ARM processors are much less powerful than X86. They do less per clock cycle, but do it much more power efficiently.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 20:36

53. droidboy (Posts: 50; Member since: 25 Nov 2012)

My laptop is not that old but its in no way a top of the line. It has a 1ghrz processor. I was just trying to make the point that smartphones esp android are innovative and powerful. To bad for web os.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 14:39 2

39. Sailingmaster (Posts: 24; Member since: 26 Feb 2012)

He's drinking Drano or something. But, no one really dethroned Palm except for Palm. They were down and out. The Treo 755 looked too much like a Treo 600, while the iPhone was resculpting the Smartphone world; and Palm got the reputation for being old and clunky. It didn't really matter that the Palm Pre was a pretty good unit and that WebOS was very slick. They couldn't change public perception.

It didn't matter that the pundits all loved it. The public equated Palm with Old Lame Tired Junk. That combined with their total loss of the enterprise market to Blackberry in the years before spelled doom. If ol' Rog up there had gotten some serious marketing research, maybe he wouldn't sound quite so spiteful.

And for that matter, RIM is pretty much in the same boat for consumers. They might gain back some business/government market share, but it will take a miraculously successful launch to resurrect any interest from the consumer market. These days, BB means old junk to the average consumer.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 09:16 1

20. tkvdog (Posts: 46; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)

mc winnie d bag

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 09:21 2

21. anshul0000 (unregistered)


posted on 15 Dec 2012, 09:38 1

22. masterchina (Posts: 55; Member since: 27 Sep 2011)

Wah, wah, wah all the way home!

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 10:47 3

26. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)

Well, his firm did buy a 25% stake in Palm, in 2007...325 million - I am sure he recovered without too many problems. Android does not innovate? Well, I am not sure how much more innovation can be done - but there can be improvements to RAM usage, battery life, efficiency, etc. Android can only go up as it has almost limitless potential.
Maybe, now that the stock of APPLE has fallen some, he can buy some of APPLE's stock.
Apple did not innovate anything - it took existing ideas and combined them into a marketable solution to the consumer.
It is a shame that webOS is no longer on smartphones, but there are just only so much spaces out there for mobile OSes...in a few years another one will come along.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 10:59 6

27. ilia1986 (unregistered)

"Android doesn't do much"


posted on 15 Dec 2012, 13:48 4

35. gmacattacks (Posts: 24; Member since: 07 Sep 2012)

He's just mad that Web OS Failed miserably

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 14:14 3

37. KFear (Posts: 143; Member since: 06 Feb 2012)

Android takes ALL of google's services and it puts itself in the middle as a means to each service. They are also free services and most of them work quite well. Palm failed to do this. Windows, Apple, and Google do this very well. "android doesn't do much." You're career isn't doing much!

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 17:56 2

46. PotDragon (banned) (Posts: 214; Member since: 22 Jul 2011)

Spoken like someone who never actually HAD a Palm Pre. I had a Pre & a Pre Plus. There is no question that WebOS blew away both android AND IOS. BTW....you must compare it to Eclair or Gingerbread as those were the versions back then. The 3gs or the ip4 was the iPhone.

Trouble Palm actually had? Complete crap hardware! The slide loosened after WAY TOO light usage making your voice transmit in fragments. I cannot tell you how many handsets i sent back for replacement. Too bad.

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 12:21 1

65. KFear (Posts: 143; Member since: 06 Feb 2012)

I work in wireless and I've had a webos device. Software wise, webos is innovative as hell but it still didn't offer nearly the intergration or the app market. The software had bugs too and tons of memory issues. I agree that the hardware was terrible. My technicians couldn't even mix most of the issues except for the power button having stopped. It did not blow the other experiences out of the water. None of my customers ever really said that. They wanted I phones because of the apps and intergration or android for customization. Webos was a fail in more regards than just hardware. Good idea though.

posted on 17 Dec 2012, 02:31

71. gmacattacks (Posts: 24; Member since: 07 Sep 2012)

also tiny screens hahaha the hp veer was a complete joke in my opinion

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 11:35 2

29. gmacattacks (Posts: 24; Member since: 07 Sep 2012)


posted on 15 Dec 2012, 12:35 1

30. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)

Sounds badly Butthurt or has money invested in Apple :D

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 13:17 1

33. Shino (banned) (Posts: 196; Member since: 23 Jul 2012)

Hahaha! Phonearena, you just posted some really big s**t, again! A few days ago I praised one of your artcles and thought you started hired better educated people. And now this?! "Sour grapes"?! Who do you think you are?! How pathetic is to show how illiterate and immmature your team is, by puttind a title like this? You think you are smarter than a REAL expert, actually?! I don't think so. Really, really pathetic.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 14:29 5

38. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)

That "real expert" threw a lot of money into what is now a dead OS. Clearly he knows so much what he's talking about.

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 08:10

64. jroc74 (Posts: 6006; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

Compare that to Matias Duarte that left and joined the Android team about a year before Web OS devcies were killed off by HP.

This guy probably wishes he woulda let his money follow Duarte.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 15:20 1

40. Kal-el (Posts: 93; Member since: 14 Dec 2012)

the only way to get haters to have something pretty awesome worth hating......Innovation? funny considering google voice/ vlingo were on android phones before apple could even Spell SIRI...Apple is a good chef taking pieces and ingredients from all other companies and just tweaking it a lil to claim their "OWN" recipe....kinda like makin a chocolate cookie and saying your version is better cuz you added more chocolate chips into it....doesn't take away from the fact that the idea from creator of the brilliant original cookie in the first place. Without ALL these other companies google/windows/palm etc....there wouldn't be apple....HELL more than 70% of parts of an iphone is made by other companies like sharp and samsung....The only "INNOVative" things apple creating is it's advertising into fooling people that their is the "best" phone and they invented it.


posted on 15 Dec 2012, 16:05

41. Whateverman (Posts: 3262; Member since: 17 May 2009)

This dude is a joke. He lost all credibility when he listed Google as one of the biggest patent trolls and then said, "Maybe Apple". Really dude? SMH.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 16:23

42. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)

I guarantee had this guy invested in android and Google back then instead of palm, he'd be singing a different tune right about now, he's just mad he took a big chance with palm and it failed miserably. Which is sad, because web os is awesome. I really hope this new open web os thing pans out.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 17:47 1

44. tedkord (Posts: 11731; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)

WebOS was awesome, but Palm paired it with garbage hardware. No one in their right mind thought it was going to take off once we got a look at the Pre and Pixi.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 18:03 1

47. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)

Agree. With this new open web os I would love to see some new stuff. In fact, I think with Samsung dominating android at the moment, companies like HTC should put web os out. Could you imagine a droid DNA level device running web os?

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 16:53

43. snowgator (Posts: 3586; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)

Okay, I loves me some WebOS, and miss it. But we all know this: Without Android, there is no innovation or true explosion of mobile. Not to the degree it has in the short time it has. There is a reason WebOS failed, MS is scrambling to become a player, RIM is barely treading water and Apple is spending more time suing then releasing new devices: Google acquiring Android and kicking it up a notch changed the game. At first, smartphone was a business only device and the rest of the world was still paying by the minute for phone calls. The Smartphone revolution as a personal device was started by Apple, but it has been Android that made it available to everyone. And every function that devices have in them are available on Androids pretty much out of the box. This guy knows it.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 19:02 3

51. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

durka durka to the guy in the article.

The run away craze with the Nexus4 proves that google is in no danger of losing "android" to "samsung".
He misses the cart before the horse. The beauty of Android unlike iOS or WebOS that its playdough.. it can be anything you want. And now its beautiful playdough that runs super smooth that can do anything you want.

Its not like bringing a motor scooter at the indie.. its like owning every car on the track except the lone iOS car.

Apple cant always "bring in all the profits" if Android is consistently eating world wide market share. If/when apple starts to become irrelevant (its happening now), its margins will shrink as it starts to have sales, prepaid, and free models (already starting to happen) to stay in the game at all. At that point either apples massive profits will drop (has started to happen) or it will continue to lose large swaths of market share to chase high margins (has also been happening). Its a lose-lose for apple as far as maintaining their current margins no matter how u cut it.
Apple will never go out of business and they will always have their loyal fans, but they will be re-relegated to "niche" product much like they always have been.

posted on 15 Dec 2012, 19:08

52. Edmund (Posts: 656; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)

He makes some very valid points

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 01:46

57. Fuego84 (Posts: 344; Member since: 13 May 2012)

Who cares if apple started markets or not. The reality is that the first product out there will always be out done by the competition. Why? Because the competition will examine that first device find out what's it missing and how they can improve it and Viola a better product is born being android. Sure not a lot of android devices out there make a premium feeling device but the android OS is always current where IOS is always late & outdated.

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 02:42

59. Bluesky02 (Posts: 1439; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)

Okay i agree that Apple transform and rebuild the markets. But they are not innovating anymore. I see same yearly upgraded product, with some hardware changes, apps and that's it. Samsung is innovating, next year Samsung is bringing Flexible displays. Nokia is always innovating, PureView Camera, Nokia City Lens, Optical Image Stabilization. In fact the company that has innovate the most is Nokia.

posted on 16 Dec 2012, 05:46 1

60. Droids-R-us (Posts: 33; Member since: 17 Sep 2012)

I cant believe what I have just read? 1, Android was created 1 year before IOS. 2, Apple do not innovate, they have taken ideas that already exist, made them better then patented them is if they invented them. Now they sue anyone who does the same. 3, Android does more than any other phone operating system that exists "It is completely open" No other phone lets you change the Launcher/font/icons/OS ETC, the list is nearly endless!. Motor scooter?? Android devices have the fastest processor and highest spec of any phone that exists. He is even criticizing Android for not being as greedy as Apple who screw every last penny they can form people, Example 100$/£ more for a bigger memory, patenting a rounded corner, suing ifone who patented their name years before apples iphone, copying the "Pad" from star trek then suing samsung for making a similar product. 4, people by iphones exactly because they don't do much, very simple to operate and learn, therefor stable. Has he ever even used an Android phone?????

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