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Samsungs's experts say under oath that Apple's patents are not as valuable as Apple thinks they are

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Samsungs's experts say under oath that Apple's patents are not as valuable as Apple thinks they are
The second Apple-Samsung patent trial continued on Friday, with Samsung lawyers trying to put on testimony that shows that Apple's patents are not valuable. While Apple seeks $2.2 billion from Samsung for allegedly infringing on Apple's patents, Samsung says that Apple is exaggerating the value of its intellectual property. The five patents that Apple claims that Samsung used illegally involve "slide-to-unlock", "unified search", "data identifiers", "background identifiers" and "word prediction."

On Friday, Samsung called NYU professor Tulin Erdem to the stand, and his testimony was that Apple was relying on a flawed analysis by John Hauser that inflated the amount of the damages that Apple is seeking from its rival. The professor says that the study includes features that most consumers aren't even aware of. These features do not drive demand, according to Erdem. Hauser's study, which Apple presented earlier in the trial, claimed that these consumers are willing to pay $32 to $102 for the features covered by Apple's patents. "You are elevating artificially the importance, the value of these things," the professor said. "They are not even in the radar screen of consumers. These are very granular...and they wouldn't drive demand."

Erdem testified that she used eye-tracking studies to determine which phones people would buy. She discovered that people won't select a particular smartphone based on minor things. "It was the major things that drive demand," she said. On cross-examination, Apple tried to discredit Erdem's testimony by saying that her study failed to include such features as the processor, on-screen QWERTY and GPS. But another Samsung expert earlier on Friday, criticized Hauser's study for Apple, for failing to include the same exact things.

The Samsung expert who shot down Hauser's study was David Reibstein, professor of marketing at Wharton, who said that the study also did not take the brand of phone into consideration. Reibstein said that there are several factors that drive a consumer to buy a particular phone and none of them relate to the patents that Apple claims were infringed on by Samsung.

Closing arguments are expected on April 28th. After instructions from Judge Lucy Koh, the trial will be turned over to the jury.

source: Recode, CNET via AppleInsider

133 Comments
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posted on 19 Apr 2014, 16:41 9

1. Altair (Posts: 317; Member since: 02 Feb 2012)


"Samsungs's experts say under oath that Apple's patents are not valuable as Apple thinks they are"

Under oath I say, that Shamesung word is worthless, as are morale. Just a punch of copycats. Lets hope, a trial punish them hard.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 16:48 48

2. YodhaMali (Posts: 38; Member since: 05 Jan 2013)


Apple is no less of a copycat, my friend.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:43 21

28. DCSeerIvan (Posts: 35; Member since: 14 Apr 2014)


apple upgrade their phones by making it tall.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:57 9

34. vincelongman (Posts: 946; Member since: 10 Feb 2013)


http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/04/apple-reveals-new-password-gesture-process-to-strengthen-the-authentication-process-of-future-idevices-and-macs.html#more
Apple tried to patent the android pattern unlock (at sure who used it first, but defiantly someone before Apple)

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 20:47 1

80. DCSeerIvan (Posts: 35; Member since: 14 Apr 2014)


But nokia are the best :)

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 21:08 2

88. Dastrix (Posts: 570; Member since: 23 Nov 2012)


Well said! No one can sue Nokia.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 03:35 1

98. sbw44 (Posts: 363; Member since: 04 Dec 2012)


When was the last time anyone sued Nokia? I'm curios.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 16:50 25

4. bbblader (Posts: 575; Member since: 24 Oct 2011)


Everyone copies. Sad part is,that Samsung hasn't copied iPhone in a looong time. They stopped after Samsung Galaxy S OG

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:14 7

7. Sauce (unregistered)


Samsung spends more time advertising about the iPhone than they do making a better phone.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:22 12

13. willard12 (Posts: 699; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)


That's bad for Apple considering the Galaxy S4 and 5 costs 20% more to make than the iphone.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:29 5

16. Sauce (unregistered)


I don't care how much money a company uses to make a phone. If I like it, I'm going to buy it. Lol.

I'm sure the general public doesn't give a rats buttocks either.

Point being in post 7: Samsung just brightens up Apples eternal spotlight. If they were confident in making a great phone, they wouldn't need to market in a way which needs to shoot down #1. Their insecurities can't be more clear than that lol.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:33 18

20. PBXtech (Posts: 966; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


Like how Steve Jobs talked about Android all the time.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:39 2

24. Sauce (unregistered)


Google employees are always talking about iOS. Vice versa.

You don't see them spamming advertisements about each others phones like Samsung lol.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:49 14

31. PBXtech (Posts: 966; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


Marketing, and very effective marketing at that. It's business. If you're an Apple fan, I can see how that would bother you though. It bothered the Apple execs too.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:19

37. Sauce (unregistered)


Apple and Samsung fan. Ironic huh.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:25

40. PBXtech (Posts: 966; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


You? Personally, I don't use either one's products.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:33

45. Sauce (unregistered)


I love both my devices due to their classy and sexy looks. iOS and Android. Best of both worlds.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 02:04 7

97. willard12 (Posts: 699; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)


"Samsung spends more time advertising about the iPhone than they do making a better phone."

"I don't care how much money a company uses to make a phone."

It's hard disagreeing with people who don't agree with themselves.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 10:55 2

111. Taters (Posts: 2584; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


You should care. I don't like being ripped off so knowing how much each company spends on their customers shows me how much each manufacturer rips me off.

Samsung rips me off the least which is nice to know. Apple on the other hand with their 20 billion in the bank and STILL raising prices and STILL insisting on reducing the ram from 16gb to 8gb in order to drop the price should tell you all that you need to know.

Yes, if you were a smart shopper, you should care. Lol

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 18:49

130. BRYLYNT (Posts: 28; Member since: 09 Nov 2013)


im sure you mean internal memory and not ram. They are two very different things. Not trying to be a prick just saying.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 20:09

131. Taters (Posts: 2584; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


Yes that is what I meant. My bad. We all know Apple wouldn't give us more than their standard 1gb of ram unless they raise the price by $20 dollars though.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 19:06 2

57. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 6129; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)


And Apple makes the same rectangular patent phone every year.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:33

46. Sreddy (Posts: 46; Member since: 14 Sep 2013)


LOng time :/ really.. why was the s5 in gold and with fingerprint scanner .. why wasnt it put in previous flagships before 5s.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 19:19 3

58. tedkord (Posts: 4275; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=28658

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 06:10

100. Sreddy (Posts: 46; Member since: 14 Sep 2013)


are they the flagships?
there was no gold option on s3 or s4 nonetheless but since after iphone used this scheme, magically they added to s5! they just wait to copy others.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 08:08 2

106. tedkord (Posts: 4275; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


The ever moving goal posts. Show you a gold flagship, and that won't count because it doesn't have the power button on top.

Apple was not the first to do a good phone. Not by a long shot. They copied the idea. That's the end of the story.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 13:27 1

125. willard12 (Posts: 699; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)


Can't wait to see your comments when a large screened iphone is introduced. I wish I could have seen your comments when iphone got pull down notifications, command center, 4g lte, wallpapers, and answer a call with a message.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 20:25 5

72. shuaibhere (Posts: 1297; Member since: 07 Jul 2012)


Ah....are you guys illiterate or what????
Dunno the difference between copying and competition????
samsung has been making golden galaxies before ip5s....
and fingerprint sensor is not from apple...both buy from others.....
and if this is a copy then....increase in screen is a copy....and what will you say about ios7???

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 06:15

101. Sreddy (Posts: 46; Member since: 14 Sep 2013)


whats copying and competition then?
Fingerprint is not from apple, i agree, both buys from others, true that, but why the delay with samsung? they are so fast to change, couldn’t they just do it before iphone does :/ the courts doesn’t just foolishly decides that yes samsung has to pay to apple for infringing patents

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 06:51 2

105. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)


If thats the case...why did Apple wait til after Motorola did the fingerprint scanner on the Atrix then?

Why did Apple wait til other Android phones, tablets do LTE first then?

Why wait to do a bigger iPhone and smaller iPad?

What about all the features from other OS's that was added in iOS 6 and 7...?

....see how flawed that logic is?

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 10:58 1

113. Taters (Posts: 2584; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


Shhhhhh stop making so much sense about technology trends. The clueless Apple fans and Samsung haters find it difficult to follow all that common sense.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 17:50

127. Sreddy (Posts: 46; Member since: 14 Sep 2013)


apple and motorola really.. motorolas scanner was a huge time failure that they even did not reimpliment it on other models lol, motorola didnt have faith in themselfs. apple took that idea, made it is a sucess. ofcourse, seeing that sucess, samsung had to follow. and yet, after releasing it after iphone, they couldnt get that right also. apple releases just one or 2 phones per year, how many changes and you expect from it :/ not like other companies just puts in things for any sake.

posted on 21 Apr 2014, 19:55

133. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)


Just because somethings a failure...doesnt make it copying when you do it better and others do it after you.........

Still ....we can apply that same logic to Apple and bigger iPhones, smaller iPads.

I guess Apple isnt copying that those cases tho, right?

:-/

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 10:57

112. Taters (Posts: 2584; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


Um yeah they do...the jury was pretty damn foolish.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 11:25

121. Ashoaib (Posts: 1212; Member since: 15 Nov 2013)


Apple's patents worth 4cents which apple thinks worth 100$... this is the reason they charge 100dollars extra from if0ols... Hauser's study suggest these patents worth 100$ so court should charge 100$ from hauser, not samsung...

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 20:26 2

73. shuaibhere (Posts: 1297; Member since: 07 Jul 2012)


Ah....are you guys illiterate or what????
Dunno the difference between copying and competition????
samsung has been making golden galaxies before ip5s....
and fingerprint sensor is not from apple...both buy from others.....
and if this is a copy then....increase in screen is a copy....and what will you say about ios7???

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 20:51 1

81. engineer-1701d (Posts: 411; Member since: 13 Mar 2014)


Apple did finger print after Motorola and did a champagne gold after HTC so so Samsung had a poll that said people want it so they did it new poll says no w one really wants gold phone

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:35 4

21. Ubi2447 (Posts: 131; Member since: 14 Feb 2012)


Patent wars are less about preserving a companies integrity and more about who can paint the other guy into the smallest corner to operate.
...It's tactical. It's not defensive, it's offensive, shrouded by a mask of self integrity. Plain and simple.
Thankfully I don't plan on replacing my Samsung GS3 with a device from either of these companies this year.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 19:54 4

66. networkdood (Posts: 6247; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)


Hey, good points, but, I think in Apple's case it is defensive as the company sees itself far behind ANDROID on a world wide scale....and that concerns them, so, they are attempting to even the playing field the good ole fashioned corporate way....

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 11:29

122. Ashoaib (Posts: 1212; Member since: 15 Nov 2013)


So True

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:58 9

52. robcar (Posts: 69; Member since: 18 Jan 2011)


"Shamesung"

How old are you?

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 08:24 1

108. MR-H- (Posts: 116; Member since: 10 Apr 2014)


And you are 12.

Apple are "patent trolls"

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 11:04

115. Taters (Posts: 2584; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


They are. That is the difference. Apple are patent trolls and shamesung is the most far off based insult ever.

Let's just say they are just copy cats, which I disagree with but let's just say if they are. Shamesung still wouldn't work at all since they have no shame in their business practices. They would be copying shamelessly without a care in the world.

So shamelessly copying sung would be the correct term. Shamesung is just itarded...er.. I mean retarded.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 19:04 3

55. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 6129; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)


I say that u follow anything Apple says or do. All patents by Apple are irrelevant and they also CPY

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 23:30

94. Ashoaib (Posts: 1212; Member since: 15 Nov 2013)


You say under oath and say under oath too that you are one of a lame ifo0l

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 04:35 1

99. RebelwithoutaClue (Posts: 476; Member since: 05 Apr 2013)


You do know that it isn't Samsung's word, just an expert they hired. And he does have very good points, better ones than the so called Apple expert. And aren't you getting tired of using Shamesung, it's getting old and shows your own intelligence level more than anything.

And no, not a Samsung fan, own a N5.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 16:49 24

3. tedkord (Posts: 4275; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


You might have a point if so much of the iPhone wasn't also copied from others. Slide to Unlock isn't even Apple's original idea, they stole it.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:07

5. Sauce (unregistered)


The Neonode N1m was the ugliest, funniest looking piece of trash phone. Something you would get out of a McDonalds kid's meal.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:21 22

11. tedkord (Posts: 4275; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


I didn't realize that innovation only exists on attractive devices, and that is only stealing if it's taken from a good looking device.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:31

18. Sauce (unregistered)


Innovation serves the public better when IT IS ACTUALLY USED.

...Lol….

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:27 13

41. tedkord (Posts: 4275; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Not serving the public better doesn't make it not innovation, not does it change the fact that Apple stole slide to unlock.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 23:19 1

92. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)


Please tell me you are just being funny....thats a very short sighted way to look at the great things many of us have never used or heard of...or the things that have been derived from things less popular, in use.

By the way...some innovation is actually better when its not used or known by the public....if it has an important use.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 09:30 1

109. MR-H- (Posts: 116; Member since: 10 Apr 2014)


Whatever you say mostly has no solid state ground of weight and punch.

This is what you believe, not the actual truth nor do you give credit to others but Apple is the very first.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 11:07

116. Taters (Posts: 2584; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


You do know that your itarded statement makes Samsung the most innovative company ever than since their smartphones are by far the most used in the world right? lol dumb ass....

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:32 12

19. PBXtech (Posts: 966; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


Extremely faulty logic, copying is not based upon success of the previous product. What the N1m looked like or its functionality is irrelevant.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:37

23. Sauce (unregistered)


Read post 18.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:41 8

26. PBXtech (Posts: 966; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


That stopped when Apple sued others for doing the same thing they did. Both the parties are guilty, neither should be paying each other for any part of it.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 09:32

110. MR-H- (Posts: 116; Member since: 10 Apr 2014)


Leave Samsung out of it. it's Apple who are patent trolls, not Samsung.

Everyone takes cues from others and modify it or make it better, but in Apples case it's none above,,,,

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:28 7

42. tedkord (Posts: 4275; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Read it. It was as nonsensical as post 5. Nothing but rationalization.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:12

6. Sauce (unregistered)


Also, I'm sure less than 5% of this sites users and authors even knew what the Neonode N1m was, let alone what it looked like.

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