Samsung's 2010 document says Galaxy S would be better if it were more like the Apple iPhone
0. phoneArena 07 Aug 2012, 23:38 posted on
Apple has placed a 2010 document from Samsung into evidence, all 132 pages of it; the document is translated from Korean and compares the Samsung Galaxy S with the Apple iPhone as engineers write that the Galaxy S needs to be more like the iPhone...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
60. Savage (unregistered)
I am upset, taco. Sammy did copy. But it was in the past. Now, Samsung makes devices of their own style. And that I don't wanna see being banned.
64. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
So here's what I think will happen. Apple can't realistically ban Samsung phones for the long term. Samsung will lose this case and lose a bunch of money. They'll come up with work sounds to keep selling their products. The big question is will their reputation take so much damage they'll lose sales long term.
68. SonyFTW2020 (Posts: 308; Member since: 03 May 2012)
it is once again............what you think
71. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Yes what I think...did not try to present it as something else.
70. Savage (unregistered)
Reserve your predictions till the results come out. Then we'll see.
90. dok2005 (Posts: 55; Member since: 18 Apr 2012)
heres the real point apple suing them so they can get their money back for all the parts they buy from them which by the way makes up 20% of their iphone can you imagine how much money get poored in to samsung hands. which they take turn around and make a better product. samsung suing them over long time realist patent over 3g data. of course no one really cares about that part wat so ever
10. ObjectivismFTW (Posts: 211; Member since: 03 Jul 2012)
Damn I like Android, and Galaxy has long since seperated itself from Apple, but Samsung dropped the ball on this one BIG time.... Apple knew they had this ace in the hole, they were only waiting to pull the trigger on this one.
34. ObjectivismFTW (Posts: 211; Member since: 03 Jul 2012)
TBH, I think we can all agree that this was clear cut infringement on Samsung, and that with this document, Apple has basically done to Samsung what the Law did to Sandusky, but come on people, this is the Galaxy S1.
Comparably, the Galaxy S2 was much more of a step-up for Samsung, as it was the first Android device to solidify itself as the hands-down best iPhone competitor and potential killer; there was no infringement there. Since the release of the GS2, Samsung has made many Un-Apple-like strides in the mobile industry, employing new technologies like AMOLED, strategically raising the bar for screen sizes, as well as blazing the trail for new and upcoming and YES INNOVATIVE smartphone designs(i.e Galaxy Note), the latter completely diverging from Apple's design philosophy. Over the years, Samsung has built it's own reputation for developing the most solid, stable and hardware capable Android devices on the market, as well as optimizing their software to work effectively with fluidity. No infringement there.
It's no secret that OEMs take ideas from each other. Steve Jobs acknowledged this himself:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
I mean, come on.. Apple notification bar?
What matters is who pushes the bar the highest, and what device is constructed to yield more capabilities, whilst abiding to a constantly growing standard of performance. Samsung has done that in recent years, Apple has not.
So of course Apple has put Samsung to shame in this specific trial, but that doesn't change the fact that iOS is growing at the same rate of a turtle's speed-walk, or the fact that Android is much more open to user customization and preference.
Apple finally put a point on the board..
Apple - 1
Samsung - 1,534,958
12. wendygarett (unregistered)
this article is getting boring....
15. wendygarett (unregistered)
BTW, it is hard to win against the trillionaire with this hard-core evidence because what I see they are much much identical what i expect... from design and software if you ask me...
25. ilkinandr92 (Posts: 45; Member since: 07 Aug 2012)
software is iSO and android so it shouldnt even be about that. Because iSO, Android and buda and w/e else they got now all look the same. And they all have the same design and thats the fact apple wasnt fist to use it. also samsung always kinda had the candy bar style look like iphone but they also had keyboards. Which shows candybar style wasnt really copied. but anyways if just take the touch screen and shape of the phone that means everyone copied iphone just like HDTV's are all the same.
18. GeekMovement (Posts: 1900; Member since: 09 Sep 2011)
Disappointing to be honest towards Samsung. It may be true Apple didn't invent many of their "innovative ideas", but this document seems to say that Samsung tried to make it more similar to the iPhone's concept.
Personally, I'm going to start looking into Sony smartphones hopefully HTC and Blackberry 10 will make a comeback. LG, Motorola, and Nokia will hopefully release some nicer devices as well.
I mean I was a bit disappointed with the GalaxySIII as my GalaxySII is a lot snappier and faster. Also the build quality is weak. Signal reception is the same as GalaxySII. Design could have been better. But I think it will serve me well for the next 2 years.
19. Sackboy117 (Posts: 178; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Wow the original galaxy s sucks. Good thing they created the S 4G and others.
24. Savage (unregistered)
The original Galaxy S didn't suck when it was released. It had one of the most powerful processors during its time.
Well, times change, now we are in the quad-core era, single cores are just for entry-level buyers.
26. Ohrules (Posts: 326; Member since: 11 Jun 2012)
i agree. only a year ago, it was rated 2nd performance-wise on GSMArena, and the top dog was S II.
23. 305Bucko (Posts: 506; Member since: 07 Aug 2011)
Well this is just captastic. Somebody at Samsung is getting fired as we speak.
I like how all the pages pretty much say: Make it look more like the iPhone, but dont copy the iPhone.
SMH... I hope Samsung is holding a Royal Flush... now would be the time to go all in :/
31. samystic (Posts: 202; Member since: 25 Mar 2012)
i can only laugh at stupid people at Apple and cheap copycats at Samsung... Nokia join the party and sue Samsung for copying Symbian (standby screen and visual contact shortcuts) on it's low end phones AND rethink Meego
32. Gaurav008 (Posts: 294; Member since: 20 Jul 2012)
Anyone checked out Meizu dual core-4 core pjones..they look just like the iphone..though plastic instead of premium materials...
37. pikapowerize (banned) (Posts: 1869; Member since: 03 May 2012)
its china product... not even a big player...apple wont mind that!
40. Commentator (Posts: 2809; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
The Meizu phone looks like the bastard-child of an iPhone and a One X (iPhone front and One X rear).
42. Savage (unregistered)
Exactly! Apple doesn't mind those OEM's who don't put a dent in their device sales.
35. android8 (Posts: 22; Member since: 07 Aug 2012)
In which sense Apple can claim that others (Specifically Samsung) is copying its products. Who copied the drop down menu, and just because Android is an open source.
Its the binary / hexa code which runs behind the scene on any PC or smart phone. So essentially all are violating the rights since there are no new codes been defined other than (0,1).
45. Commentator (Posts: 2809; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
That's all fine and dandy until you factor in physical appearances. I guess if you've been cursed to only be able to see things in terms of binary this whole lawsuit wouldn't make sense, but most consumers make distinctions between different products, even if they do ultimately share the same origins.
50. android8 (Posts: 22; Member since: 07 Aug 2012)
Every car has four wheels. So any rectangular shape phone design or square icons cannot be patented.
53. Commentator (Posts: 2809; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
A car needs four wheels to function as a car. A phone doesn't need a rectangular shape or square icons to function as a phone.
58. android8 (Posts: 22; Member since: 07 Aug 2012)
All the phones decades back used to be rectangular in shape.
Square icons were introduced by Sony and Nokia way before Apple, nothing new apple invented.
41. Bluesky02 (Posts: 1439; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)
This document proves many differences between iPhone and Samsung Galaxy S
73. phitch (Posts: 214; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
This document actually works entirely against Apple, essentially you have Samsung in an email breaking down why the Galaxy S isn't comparable to the iPhone and saying they wish it was more like the iPhone. This suit is about the Galaxy line copying the iPhone, but if the original Galaxy S was so glaringly different to the people who designed it in the first place then how does that prove it was a rip off? In fact, if anything they are simply saying they wish their system worked more like the iOS and you know what, that is perfectly fine. People really need to learn to read before just saying "omg this is proof!" The only thing this proves is that Samsung saw Apple as a competitor looked at what worked well and attempted to improve upon it. Bravo for the amazing reasonable deductive work Apple. Now Samsung gets to dissect this email and show exactly why the Galaxy S and the Galaxy line in fact didn't copy the iPhone. Seriously, if anyone shot themselves in the foot it was Apple. "I'm going to prove you copied our phone by showing an email in which you say the ways in which your phone could be improved and is lacking in comparison to our phone!"
77. phitch (Posts: 214; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
Dear people making comments -- read the damn email not the story.
93. Aeires (unregistered)
Apparently, that's not happening. Attention spans too short or people just want to point fingers too quickly. This document can be interpreted in so many ways I'm sure Samsung's lawyers aren't even going to break a sweat with this one.
78. Whateverman (Posts: 3236; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Com'on people! I love Android as much as anybody else, but Samsung made their version of Android into an iPhone rip off. They crossed the line for me when they put squared blocks behind the icons and made their app tray scroll horizontally, when every other Android device scrolled vertically. Android is by far NOT a stolen product, but TouchWiz definitly was.
With that said, people aren't stupid! No one went into a store confused the Galaxy S for an iPhone. Apple needs to be realistic with their demands, because the rectangle has been around for quit a while. So has the color black. Sue for the UI and leave the rest of it alone.
79. rudlie (Posts: 182; Member since: 13 Mar 2012)
this document shows apple-to-apple comparison or samsung-to-apple (samsung being apple) motive? hahahaa
82. Aaron_R96 (Posts: 198; Member since: 22 Jan 2012)
I'm gonna come out and say it; I'm an android fan myself, but my two most hated tech companies are Apple and Samsung.
BUT, in this case.. I have to favour with Apple.. and I must admit the way in which they go about their products is admirable.. they dont use high end specs, they use high end materials and packaging even, making the user feel like theyre usimg something premium, when actually, compared to many counterparts theyre not.. but the average consumer thinks they are..
Samsung on the other hand use strong on par specs but therefore the materials suffer and that plays right into Apple's hands.. As even though many devices have better spec, they have worse looks and build quality, and this trial is making it evident that Samsung are trying to achieve what Apple have - a more refined approach.
Fortunately this is where brands like Sony and HTC can attack, most notably in 2011 with HTC, 2012 Sony - using higher quality materials (not as high as iphone) as well as stronger specs than the iphone (but not as strong as the Galaxy S3) so as you can see theres room for them all in the market.. which is surely a good thing?
Anyway as you can probably tell, im on Apples side in all of this.. but you can see why Samsung are/have taken some inspiration from Apple.. and no, I do not agree that Apple should take everyone to court all the time, this time though, its a fair shout..
(JUST MY OPINION) Thanks for reading :)
85. pikapowerize (banned) (Posts: 1869; Member since: 03 May 2012)
agree with you.. im with apple with this... even google said that samsung tab did look a lot like iPad
86. rudlie (Posts: 182; Member since: 13 Mar 2012)
I like your fair opinions, but you only can compare the hardware's spec between android devices, but not to apple device because with single-core proc of apple can equalize dual-core proc of android device, and dual-core proc of apple can equalize quad-core proc of android device. I am iOS, android, and blackberry user right now. I have android devices more than iOS devices, but no android devices can give me happy result even I have higher specs.
92. dok2005 (Posts: 55; Member since: 18 Apr 2012)
wow well i got news for u look up your facts first applet even make their proc thats all samsung homie so a) apple single does not equal android double etc,,,, let alone their ram isnt on par wit android phones but u nicely are entitle to your opinion about which device make you happier which is why apple shouldnt be suing in the first place. i know apple and samsung have a contract for the 20% of the parts that make up apple iphone and other mobile devices but dont mean they should bite thier hand because people choose buy your supplier product
89. dok2005 (Posts: 55; Member since: 18 Apr 2012)
what do that look like to you
i think after improving on the things they thought were wrong u still can tell the difference between the galaxy line and the ios line without a doubt
98. doublehammer (Posts: 75; Member since: 07 Aug 2012)
i love how PA articles really make it look like its a 1 sided slam dunk case. That really gets the nut trolls all up in party mode. The reality is much different. Go to The Verge or a dozen other sites and read the transcripts of the case. The reality is a much different beast than the pictures painted so far on PA. Samsung has had a fun time with Apple's massively paid witnesses so far. Just about $150k for 2 paid witnesses.. how much is apple going to spend on "non biased" defense.. lol
100. PhoneCritic (Posts: 425; Member since: 05 Oct 2011)
There is an old Biblical saying that states that to hear one side of the story may seem to prove guilt or Innocent until the other side is heard. Right now all we are hearing is Apples side. Remember the other side has to present it case. So lets wait before making a judgment call since Samsung has not yet presented its case.
This is just common sense 101.
103. Aeires (unregistered)
Agreed. I've been waiting for the hardware patents of Samsung to come into play.
101. shiv179 (Posts: 22; Member since: 08 Aug 2012)
Samsung did NOT copy Apple.
The thing to remember about this kind of document is that it does NOT prove Samsung copied the Apple look and feel – it can be argued that this is simply part of a thorough product comparision procedure, which is pretty standard in any research and development environment.
There's NOTHING wrong with comparing yourself to your competitors.
I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 and some of my friends have iPhones - the UI is VERY different!
How a person can confuse a phone with a SAMSUNG logo, to that of a phone with an Apple logo is beyond me :/
Many of the elements of Android which were considered too “complex” have also found their way into iOS, for example the pull down notification tray.
102. good2great (Posts: 1042; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
give it up man... this was samsung's business strategy to make their android products stand out against others to look similar to the iphone to gain that iFan's buck who wants to try something different...
its copying... period
not saying they are a crooked company and i wouldn't want to see them banned but the facts are right in front of you. along with their intentions.
107. doublehammer (Posts: 75; Member since: 07 Aug 2012)
just for arguments sake, lets say that samsung outright copied the look of the iphone with the SGS1. I dont feel that its true (similar yes, but that is not a "copy") but lets just pretend that it is.
Thats not what the phone looked like for the SGS2, SGS3, Note, G-Nexus, and pretty much every other major samsung release since the SGS1. Also, the iPhone is not an "original design" like nothing before it. It shares many similarities with other phones and as we've seen, took its base design cues from Sony.
So Apple thinks that Samsung owes them every penny of profit they have made from the release of the SGS1 till now... and that's quite literal and accurate. Do you think thats fair? If the SGS1 was "a copy", yet the S2, S3, Note, 2 Nexus devices, and what ever else were not, should Samsung hand over all profit to Apple? In comparison, the SGS1 was a big seller.. biggest of the year, but it is easily dwarfed by the S2 and probably about to be dwarfed by the S3 if it hasn't already (and it will easily be passed before the S3 gets decommissioned).
So say that in the big picture of all the phones, they made 10-20% of that 2 billion in profit off the S1. Does that mean they should be punished by 500-1000% of the S1's profit?
What is "fair"? Banning of the S1? Giving Apple 50% of the S1's profits? All of the S1's profits? Working out a long term cross patent licence that makes everyone happy (would be the best ending I think). What?
No matter how "similar" the S1 may or may not have been, it was the only Galaxy phone that was. The Square S2 with TW4 definitely is not, neither is the note or SGS3 with Nature UX. Only a complete fool would think they were similar.
And the Galaxy tab has already been found to be too similar in base design and changed to differentiate in some markets. Also, it wasnt a big seller, nor is still on sale in very many places (much like the SGS1)
So what is the fair deal?
And if you think Apple deserves money from "harm" from Samsung, what about Sony?
If they really took major design cues from Sony like they have.. how much harm do you think the iPhone did to sony? They pretty much denied them their own "iconic" look. So if you think Apple deserves all of Samsung's profits, then doesnt that mean that Apple OWES Sony all of Apple's iphone profits?
109. good2great (Posts: 1042; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
at this point in the game, i dont think anything will come out fair here...
you have very good points.
but analyzing apple's stance in all of this with the evidence they released you can't help but understand where they are coming from.
i'm not screaming "off with their heads" i just SEE that Samsung had some ill-intentions when creating their devices. they knew that they wanted the glory apple receives for its products.
i have no conclusion to what should come of it...lol
111. doublehammer (Posts: 75; Member since: 07 Aug 2012)
yea, but how do you prove "ill intentions"??
What I see is a company that instead of resting on its laurels like RIM and Nokia did (look what happened), they looked very carefully at the new competition and took a very honest assessment at "them vs us". That is how ALL companies do it. You dont think there are secret apple documents comparing iOS5/6 vs Android 4.0/4.1 with a "this works better than ours" list? Did they just magically come up with "drop down notifications" that were 95% similar to Android's by accident?
How about an iOS1 vs Blackbery xxx list? Be real. Any company that thrives keeps tabs.. honest tabs on their competition and how they compete against them in different categories. The only difference is you get to see Samsung's and not Apple's. Kind of one sided actually.
Any company that says they dont do that is lying.. or on their way out of market dominance (again see RIM and Nokia for great examples).
Also, again, in order to say "ill intentions", you would have to think that the SGS1 is a KIRF of the 3GS/4, which it most definitely is not. You would also have to think that all of Apple's designs and ideas are 100% original with NO influence by any other companies.. which again.. have been proven beyond false time and time again.
Being "similar" and being a "copy" are not the same thing.. not even close.
108. master0fursinz (Posts: 104; Member since: 26 Apr 2010)
coping i see a list of improvements that they wanted to implement. but to save face i think sammy should just go stock ui from now on.
112. corps1089 (Posts: 492; Member since: 20 Jan 2010)
I'd be glad to come work for you in place of those Product Engineers who on item #25 said the popup on the Samsung was too large; covering too much of the keyboard, when clearly the popup in the Samsung is 1/2 the size of the popup in iOS where it completely obscures 2 letters.
now regarding the trial; everyone familiar with SDLC has gone through this exercise comparing leading competition features with their product. It doesn't mean that in comparing the 2 products that you have copied their solution; you think of your own and improve upon it.
115. Liquidsky (Posts: 1; Member since: 08 Aug 2012)
Innovate - If i were to jump into the Hybrid Automobile market, I would compare my product to the current market leader, the Toyota Prius. Make it better, and only then can you be competitive.
Inspiration - As with journalism, literature, music, etc. .. There is fine line between plagiarism and inspiration. Leave it to the courts to decide if that line has been crossed.
Competition leads to Innovation - A manufacturer in this space that does NOT compare their product to the current market leader would be irresponsible. Samsung's products will result in better Apple products (and vice versa). Competition is a good thing.
116. michealhein (Posts: 2; Member since: 09 Aug 2012)
that means nothing! Because they compare S1 with iphone to make something better, if this document had made before releasement of S1=> Samsung copied. But this document was created after S1 release date => S2 copy?