Samsung scores major victory regarding jury instructions
Samsung was upset by this ruling, in part because the date at which they were accused of not saving all of their emails was well before the lawsuit was filed, but mostly because Apple had not ordered its employees to start saving their emails at that point either – and since Apple was the one who brought the initial lawsuit, Samsung reasoned that they had to be at least as aware that a lawsuit was coming, and therefore equally responsible for saving messages that could be evidence – something Apple also failed to do.
Judge Koh agreed with Samsung’s reasoning, and today changed the wording so that the jury will now be told that both sides failed to preserve internal emails starting as soon as they should have. The result is that the jury will not be unduly prejudiced about Samsung’s honesty, a point that could have weighed heavily on a jury of ordinary citizens trying to render a decision about the thorny technical issues surrounding software and design patents.
Of course that doesn’t mean a jury will (or won’t) find in favor of Samsung, but Samsung’s victory here means that they will start their deliberations on more even footing. Assuming Koh’s ruling survives a vigorous set of challenges from Apple’s legal team, which are probably being mounted in San Francisco right this very moment.
19. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
It's more of a pity ruling than anything. Samsung is still in the wrong here based on preliminary observation.
Ask yourself this why has Samsung of all manufacturers done so well in sales? Look at their Galaxy S line and tell me there isn't a lot of iPhone cues in the design and UI. That is why Apple went after them more than any other oem. Business protect their products and assets, this is nothing different.
21. dsDoan (Posts: 226; Member since: 28 Dec 2011)
The Galaxy S II was the best performing Android phone of its time, with no close competition. It also had the best display of its time, with no close competition.
The Galaxy S III is the follow-up to that device.
Samsung has done well in sales because of its top-of-the-line performing hardware.
27. -box- (Posts: 3968; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
@dsDoan there were a few better displays, but it definitely was the most powerful and best-selling Android device at the time
22. The_Innovation (Posts: 597; Member since: 18 Jul 2012)
What Apple should have done, is topped it off. Not whine and cry about it. They are the all powerful Apple with 623.52 Billion market cap aren't they? They have more patents and ideas which they can unleash on consumers. More innovations weather it's holograms or whatever else they are working on. But instead, they choose to milk the consumer year after year by adding features to their product that already exist, and getting away with it because it looks more cutter and slicker.
The 6th generation iPhone will have 1GB or ram. They will rave about it like it's the next big thing during the introduction of the next iPhone. Meanwhile, the industry is on a Quad-Core 2GB ram, soon with 12-13 mp cameras.
78. CRICKETownz (Posts: 980; Member since: 24 Oct 2009)
plenty of manufacturers put out phones that arent the latest tech & no one talks about it but ppl only talk about the iPhone bc it is a threat to all other smart phones out there, bottom line. android's idea of high tech isnt everyones idea of high tech. sure the bitches love iPhones but thats only one group. there's still the business world - major companies who prefer iOS performance over Android for their employees. i got an SIII which has all this stuff under its hood...but there is literally no diff in my experience with this compared to the 4S i came from. none at all. android users get in to all these irrelevant functions like overclocking & speedtests. Apple sells so well bc of ppl like me who just use the functions of the phone & are not in all that dumb shit that ppl do with their phones for bragging rights.
79. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
It sells due to being a designer phone. Like Prada. LV.
And people think they look cool in European countries, they think there rich in poor, or Asian countries!!!!!!!!!!
26. tbar (Posts: 34; Member since: 18 Jan 2010)
Get real. Issuing a patent for a rectangle is ludicrous. Apple has patents that shouldn't have been issued and wouldn't have by anyone with common sense. And, if anyone is stupid enough not to be able to tell the difference between an Android phone and an Apple phone, they deserve what they get. Apple hasn't innovated since the 1st iPhone. The latest phone just copied features from Android. Oh and don't call me an Android fan; i have both Android and Windows phones and have had an iPhone and iPad.
31. tedkord (Posts: 7209; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
Oh, yeah. Judge Koh is a real pitying type of person.
It was granted because Apple once again feels they should be held to a different standard than anyone else. Others shouldn't copy, but it's ok for them. Others should have to save their emails, but not Apple.
32. jroc74 (Posts: 5404; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
"It's more of a pity ruling than anything. Samsung is still in the wrong here based on preliminary observation."
No....its called more of a fair ruling. Apple employees are supposed to get off the hook for doing essentially the same thing?
I somehow knew you wouldnt see it the way the judge did....
50. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
no.. its pitty! The indomidable judge Koh is now ... pittiful??.
yea right. lol.
Samsung put a bright light on a big plot hole, Koh agreed, and fixed it. Its plain and simple.
90. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
Yes they are in the wrong. This wouldn't even be happening if Samsung hadn't copied them in the first place. This is why Apple has went against Samsung more than any other oem.
99. jskrenes (Posts: 209; Member since: 11 Dec 2008)
Wrong. This wouldn't be happening if Apple didn't BELIEVE Samsung had infringed upon its patents. The trial is there to determine if such is the case.
35. jroc74 (Posts: 5404; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
The Galaxy S line does well because its more than 1 phone in the Galaxy S line.
The Fascinate didnt do well vs Motorola phones on Verizon, So much for those cues from Apple helping it with sales. The GS3 is doing better, and it looks nothing like an iPhone. UI? Icons and home screen layout isnt the entire UI.
If someone gets a GS3 cuz it reminds them of an iPhone.....its an excuse with the iPhone on more US carriers now. There is no one carrier lockdown anymore. The iPhone can be had cheaper now too.
At some point, Apple and the Apple fanboys are gonna have to stop finding excuses and just accept that some ppl dont like or want the iPhone.
61. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
Motorola Droids aren't even good phones but they sold so well because of the advertisements from Verizon and the heavy emphasis on the QWERTY keyboard.
The GS3 got a design change precisely because of the lawsuits or did you forget that?
69. Sniggly (Posts: 7281; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
"Motorola Droid aren't even good phones."
By today's standard, no.
By 2009's standard, it won Time's Gadget of the Year award and was very well reviewed. It also earned those good reviews.
93. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
Oh give it a rest. What matters is what users thought not a bunch of titles that they pretty much give to any device.
94. Sniggly (Posts: 7281; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
And users thought it was great. I still run into original Droid users who don't want to give it up.
How many people can say that about the original iPhone? Hell, how many can say that about the 3GS, even?
101. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
And the original droid came out two years after the first iphone.
103. jroc74 (Posts: 5404; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Some ppl just got rid of their Droid 1's last year, even this year. And like he said, since what matters is what users thought....that says alot.
83. jroc74 (Posts: 5404; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Right. Ask some G Nex owners that were given a RAZR or Maxx as replacements if they arent good phones...
The ads do sell em, but what about when the ads stop? The RAZR and Maxx were still popular on Verizon right before the GS3 launched.
I dont remember the GS3 getting a hardware design change...dude...it looks nothing like an iPhone.
102. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
The GS3 looks drastically different to past GS models.
Yes, they were popular. But you drop the price of any high end phone and it will of course remain popular.
36. Sniggly (Posts: 7281; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Of course, anyone who's paid any attention knows that you also whined about Motorola trying to protect its business by suing Apple over its own patents.
If all Samsung had going for it was superficial resemblance to the iPhone, nobody would buy their phones.
55. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
How could Motorola protect something that's a FRAND patent? It wouldn't be the firs time Google abused its own monopolistic position.
The resemblance to the iphone in Samsung's phones is very much there. The reason they sold so well is because people can buy them cheap on contract yet their value goes down very fast.
68. Sniggly (Posts: 7281; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
I didn't realize that the Galaxy S 3, 2, and 1 were considered "cheap" when they launched. I also didn't realize that the Galaxy Note was either.
Also, and this was pointed out to you already, the latest lawsuit Motorola filed has no FRAND or standard essential patents. In other words, your comment is full of wrong and hypocrisy.
72. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
Sniggly it's Taco ur responding to.....!
70. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
You can't afford to keep up with Android. Cause new tech and specs come out every 6 month's.
71. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
Smart people won't bye overpriced midrange phone along with its totally restricted low features halfback
Darwin OS. App launcher. And even if they do there all show offs.
40. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)
Ohhhhh, s**t. Samsung put a green phone on their icon. That's a major diss to Apple. I bet the reason that every Samsung phone in history ever gets sales is because of that. Looks JUST like an iPhone.
Tsk, tsk. Samsung should know better.
57. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
Samsung phones did not sell well until after the Galaxy phones came out. The ones that bore a striking resemblance to an iPhone given an Android touchup.
85. jroc74 (Posts: 5404; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Dude...the Omnia 1 and 2 sold very well....Win Mo phones.
Give it a rest ....
89. shuaibhere (Posts: 1927; Member since: 07 Jul 2012)
Samsung phones are well known for their processing power.......not like iphones which are only known for look......no other stuff inside....
42. sithman (banned) (Posts: 299; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
I don't wanna get banned, but check out the thumb down/thumb up patern and tell me the android users can care less about whats fair. They r exactly what they call apple users. S***p
47. Sniggly (Posts: 7281; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
*ahem* Mxy's comment got thumbed down because it was full of wrong and hypocrisy.
53. CRICKETownz (Posts: 980; Member since: 24 Oct 2009)
i wouldnt exactly say full of wrong & hypocrisy. to expect an android loyalist to admit that Samsung is borrowing a bit from Apple's cosmetics just wont happen...but unfortunately it appears that way, not 100% but there are some similarities in the look of the UI. its been that way since the Galaxy S line hit. i dont agree that the success has come from iPhone'like similarities but there are similarities that arent just coincidence.
60. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
So why aren't your comments thumbed down?
74. Sniggly (Posts: 7281; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Because I'm usually right, and I'm usually consistent. I'm also willing to admit I'm wrong if I am proven to be wrong.
There's also the matter of my opinions and statements being backed up by sources and proof, which I regularly post. And even when I make predictions, such as the one that high subsidies for the iPhone tend to hurt profits for carriers, I'm vindicated by News posts about carriers like Unicom and US Cellular deciding not to sell the iPhone anymore, or even for the first time. Also, when I made the prediction that the reason Samsung refused to pay royalties to Apple was because Apple's asking rate was probably extortionist in nature, I was vindicated by the revelation that Apple indeed was asking for twice what Microsoft gets from Samsung, and at the same time claimed that any Samsung developed tech in their phones was worth only half a cent per unit.
I'm also usually pretty civil to anyone who isn't clearly here to be antagonistic. You can ask Davecann2 about that one. I've even tried to be nice to people like Taco, and in fact defended people like him if they said something correct or civil.
So.... Yeah. Why indeed.
None of this should be news to you. You clearly read my comments often enough to thumb them down anywhere you appear.
81. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Which is why Mxy is running true to form for taco - comments are full of errors and hypocrisy.
86. Sniggly (Posts: 7281; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Yeah, but there's a different style of hypocrisy and wrongness there.
Besides, when I was banhammered for a week (for calling Taco a dumbass) I created an alternate account. I was banned there within three posts. If Mxy was an alternate account from Taco he'd likely not still be posting.
95. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)
> Besides, when I was banhammered for a week (for
> calling Taco a dumbass)
It was worth it, though. It's always worth it. :P
96. Sniggly (Posts: 7281; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
I'll take the disgruntled employee approach:
I hear ya! :D
59. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
They can't put up with the truth. e.g. denial
98. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)
43. joey_sfb (Posts: 4257; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)
"Assuming Koh’s ruling survives a vigorous set of challenges from Apple’s legal team, which are probably being mounted in San Francisco right this very moment."
Apple a 600 billion titan that would play dirty, lie, cheat, photoshop evidence and even attack the judge if they don't get their way.
Go ahead, support such a bully. I wonder how much the iPhone would cost without Android as competition.
45. aikonix (Posts: 59; Member since: 08 Apr 2012)
my Samsung Galaxy Epic 4G (galaxy 1) looks NOTHING like an ugly iphone so dont tell me what it looks like. And truthfully, NONE of samsungs phones look like the iphone. the iPhone, perhaps, looks a LOT like other phones, wait did i burst your bubble? im so sorry that rectangles and the color black existed before your rotten fruit!
66. CRICKETownz (Posts: 980; Member since: 24 Oct 2009)
well first of all...Epic 4G is a phone w/a slide out keyboard right? why would you even think that model was a part of my comparison. i was moreso referring to the software. TouchWiz looks similar to iOS. its been that way. now a specific model that looks like an iPhone is the Samsung Fascinate. no need to try to get cute w/your comments...b/c ive used both android & iOS...plus i have an SIII now. from the maturity level of your response, it appears you havent used anything other than android. chill out...its only a phone.
77. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
To you it may be a phone. To others it's a, their jubilation.
63. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 6456; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)
25 people at the time of writing this are very much wrong.
88. anywherehome (Posts: 971; Member since: 13 Dec 2011)
you re complete blind...just read the facts not just what you think:
sites.google [dot] com/site/corpsins/
24. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Sammy scored a big win with this ruling. Jurors will start their decision-making with both parties on an even playing field. Prospect for a mixed decision just got higher. Does Apple really want this to go to the jury? They may not like the outcome.
44. MeoCao (unregistered)
Oh I did not know about Apple failing to retain the evidence until now. It's Apple's way to accuse others about things they are doing themselves.
3. iamcc (Posts: 1319; Member since: 07 Oct 2011)
"Samsung wins major victory in courts; trial is now somewhat fair!"
4. tedkord (Posts: 7209; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
Good news. I didn't even know that Apple had not retained their emails, either. I was actually on Apple's side on that one, but once again Apple believes in, "Do as we say, not as we do."