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Samsung exec email from 2010 says "recognize the standard" set by the iPhone, but don't copy it

Posted: , by Daniel P.

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Samsung exec email from 2010 says
Samsung added a 2010 executive email to its "benchmarking" argument yesterday, intended to prove that it was just studying and evaluating the competition, as every company does, as opposed to deliberately trying to copy the iPhone's design and software on the runup to the first Galaxy S, which Apple claims.

Samsung exec email from 2010 says "recognize the standard" set by the iPhone, but don't copy it
The email was sent to Samsung's UX team, where most of the soul-searching has been going on, as we showed you in our "chaebol" article, since the Koreans were honestly acknowledging they are not worried about the hardware, but are lacking in the software department.

Samsung's chief designer Sungsik Lee circulated the email in March, before the Galaxy S hit the shelves in June of 2010, pointing out what the iPhone does better:
At the Lismore critique meeting yesterday, CEO Gee Sung Choi strongly pointed out Samsung's [user experience] mindset of 'clinging to the past generation. Of course this must be distinguished from saying that we should do something simply because the iPhone did it that way, but [Choi] told us to make judgements based on user convenience, rather than through logical reasoning.

...in the end, we must learn through the lessons of the iPhone that just providing every good feature isn't the way to go about it. Although everyone would agree with this, we would face huge obstacles putting this into practice...

I am not saying to make what is exactly identical to the iPhone, but I am saying to learn the wisdom of the iPhone, and recognize the standard of the industry which was set by them already.
This email was presented at the end of Terry Musika's cross examination by Samsung - an accountant Apple's legal team brought to justify the $2.5-$2.7 billion charges Apple is demanding from the Koreans for patent infringement.

via CNET

27 Comments
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posted on 14 Aug 2012, 02:54 5

1. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5587; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


Sammy has more fertile ground to till in making a patent invalidity defense. The e-mail is nice, but in and of itself proves at best, an absence of intent to copy. If the patents are ruled valid, copying or not, Sammy is going have to prove Apple is not entitled to an award in the 10 figure range. If the patents are ruled invalid, whether Sammy copied or not does not matter.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 03:38 5

4. MeoCao (unregistered)


This is propoganda war, Apple is out to prove SS is a copycat and thus devaluate SS brand.

SS on their part of course must show every1 that they are inovators themselves. This is not only about the infringement.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 09:31 1

17. Aeires (unregistered)


Apple is out to destroy Android, SS is just the means to the end.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 08:17

16. speckledapple (Posts: 877; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)


Good point. I think that email more proves the methodology behind their design rather than disprove Apple's patents which is fine for appearance purposes but they will have to prove much more to invalidate the patents.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 03:13 8

2. Wiki_jaan (Posts: 702; Member since: 24 Jun 2012)


galaxy s is more look like iphone 3gs instead of iphone 4s

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 03:17 2

3. xtian1103 (Posts: 355; Member since: 11 Feb 2012)


2 types of defense,
1. samsung must prove that they did not infringe on apple's patents
2. samsung must try to invalidate those said patents, may be by way of prior art
which one is samsung doing at best so far?

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 03:44 7

5. MeoCao (unregistered)


Actually most Apple's patents are weak and do not add much value to their products. What Apple did well was the sum of everything, the synergy of the parts so to speak and that cannot be patented.

But Apple made huge money out of it already so they should not be greedy, time to innovate Apple.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 04:28 2

8. neutralguy (Posts: 1152; Member since: 30 Apr 2012)


the second type you said is the thing samsung should use so apple can stop suing everyone. I hope samsung win this. I like how apple create and innovates, but suing someone because their product looks like theirs and they're the biggest smartphone maker is just plain wrong.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 03:45 6

6. XPERIA-KNIGHT (Posts: 2384; Member since: 08 Aug 2012)


samsungs in a "honest" position and it will help them out in the long run....Apple is just mad they learned from them and made what they have "better".....and as soon as the court and the jury learn to accept the truth that "inspiration is not copying" then samsung will be able to continue with there buisness....

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 03:57 12

7. Sniggly (Posts: 6761; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


Good start, Samsung. Build up momentum and crush Apple's case.

I'm less afraid about the direct results of the case (banning phones that are either end of life or close to it) and more afraid of the precedent it'll set.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 14:11 1

21. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


the precedent is the danger, I completely agree. If apple wins it will open the doors to a wide range of lawsuits. This is basically going to validate or invalidate apple's generic patents which will change the industry if they are validated.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 04:59 2

9. bayhuy (Posts: 287; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)


Poor Sammy...

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 05:13

10. boringman123 (Posts: 5; Member since: 09 Aug 2012)


Simply, Samsung are showing that they were inspired by iphone. They were not planing to create an identical iphone but happens to create one that are slightly different. Because they were making decisions based on user convenience, rather than through logical reasoning. And when they do it, they made an iphone 2.0 .

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 05:58 3

11. bayhuy (Posts: 287; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)


Samsung: We didn't copy the iPhone, we were just inspired...so we bought an iPhone and then prepared 132 pages of instructions how to mimic our own phone to look like an iPhone from one side, but with some small changes...and Samsung logo on it...

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 07:14 4

13. chemhaz (Posts: 159; Member since: 04 May 2012)


iDiots must be loosing their eye sight looking at that small screen if they cannot see the differences.... 132 page document was a comparison , not an instuction manual. I guess the following don't count ?

Additional two captive buttons, taller thinner design, larger screen, removable back cover, replaceable battery, Micro SD slot, micro USB connector, matt bezel, thinner black frame edge, front facing camera.... it's like saying a Ferrari is the same as a VW Beetle. Yeah, they are both cars with 4 wheels, a windscreen doors and other similarities, but very different.

iPhones are the most bland looking devices out there, that's why there are so many owners desperately buying bling casess and stickers to try and enhance the appearance.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 06:28 2

12. chemhaz (Posts: 159; Member since: 04 May 2012)


Looking at the two phones and saying they are the same is like comparing the main charachters from the movie "Twins"
Samsung is the Arnie character, tall, lean, strong good looking and intelligent.
Apple is more like Danny D, short, thick, weak and ordinary with sinister intent.

(no offence Danny, luv your stuff, its the characters I'm targeting)

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 07:48 1

14. hemp88 (Posts: 3; Member since: 29 Aug 2011)


I liken this to the classic argument of MJ (Apple) vs Kobe (Samsung):

MJ changed the game & set a high standard, much like Apple did in the cell phone industry. Many have come along & been inspired by MJ. They've tried living up to that set standard, & have ultimately failed. Then Kobe comes along, he takes bits & pieces of MJs game & essentially makes it his own, but you can still see some resemblance of MJs style & game in Kobe's. Kobe for the most part is successful & has built his own legacy, & in some ppls eyes Kobe is at least equal or slightly better than MJ. At the end of the day, both MJ & Kobe are greats of the game, but MJ still holds the crown as the best to ever do it.

I'm sure MJ will be a little upset IF Kobe ever surpasses his greatness, but the truth is that you can only be so great for so long. Someone will eventually come along & challange the crown. You can either fight back & try to hold on to it, which is what Apple is doing, or you can bow out, take the loss, & come back stronger & better...It's healthy competition & should make the industry better as a whole.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 07:54 5

15. SlimSoulja86 (Posts: 642; Member since: 03 Nov 2011)


Does Apple really think I'm that stupid not to know the difference between the words "SAMSUNG" when i buy my Apple products? I love Apple but this is insulting Apple fans like me around the world (wELL i HAVE gALAXY tAB 10.1, so I guess I just love technology). That we just buy anything that looks close to an iPhone or iPad without reading the box (the box will clearly read SAMSUNG, not APPPLE: Designed by Apple in California Assembled in China) and Samsung is not even printing Samsung on their box with small letters (unlike Microsoft with their X-Box). This is pure insult. and insulting those who bought the Samsung Galaxy S, thinking they are buying iPhones. Whoever bought Gaglaxy S thinking it's an iPhone must be the most stupidest person to be alive, since Apple logo is different from that of SAMSUNG, dang! even Samsung logo is "SAMSUNG"

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 13:53

19. aoikemono27 (Posts: 177; Member since: 27 Feb 2012)


Might be insulting to you, but you are not the majority. Apple hasn't gotten to where it is right now relying on the tech-savvy consumer. That's just a niche. Just a few years ago, you would never imagine someone's mom using a smartphone to upload pictures to their facebook. Apple made it happen. They thrust the other 90% into wanting a piece of technology. I had a Creative Muvo mp3 player before the iPod ever came out. Guess what? There was no download store and no one knew what an mp3 was aside from napster users. Now the iPod is synonymous with the mp3 player, the CD player is a relic, and mp3s are like morning cereal and taxes. There's only one smartphone as far as moms and pops are concerned, so a Samsung phone will stil be called the iPhone, regardless of logo.

I don't think Samsung should pay any damages, but they have clearly been riding off the backs of Apple's designs. I've owned half a dozen Samsung smartphones and have bought pretty exclusively Samsung. Never owned an iPhone. I buy Samsung not for the design, but for the AMOLED screen and the camera and performance and size. Both their physical design and touchwiz interface are boring as hell as it is. Samsung needs to stop copying Apple, do their own designs, because they have a lot to offer beyond just design.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 17:17

25. SlimSoulja86 (Posts: 642; Member since: 03 Nov 2011)


Now you're insulting people. I'm straggling to get your point, as to how can someone buy a Samsung phone and think they bought an iPhone. Yes I know people who think my Galaxy Tab it's an iPad because I have an iPhone, because they think every tablet it's an iPad, but they do know Samsung sells their own "iPad", Asus have their own "iPad" and BlackBerry have their own "iPad". though they think "tablets" are called "iPads" they know one is from Apple, the other from Samsung, then Blackberry as so on. Maybe people you have met think a smartphone is called an iPhone due to the word "phone" after the "i". But I doubt that those people will be buying an "APPLE" phone and ended up with a phone written "SAMSUNG" in front of it, and going around to tell their friends that they have an iPhone, or show their friends their "iPhone" with a SAMSUNG logo in front. it's even worst cos SAMSUNG put their logo not only at the back but also in front. Which brings me to the point that whoever thinks they have an iPhone while they have the Galaxy S must be stupid. If there is such a person, then I bet they can't even send an MMS, cos that person must really be uneducated. and that blame cannot be pointed at Samsung, but the idiot who though he or she bought an iPhone. LOL, I can just image someone coming to me and tells me I should look at their iPhone while holding the Galaxy S, I will ROFLMAO. As as most people call MP3 players "iPod", yes Apple made these gadgets famous and mainstream, but only idiots and stupid, uneducated people who can't read will believe just because they are using Samsung Player, they own an iPod. If someone is not educated (as in techno wise) Apple cannot blame Samsung(Excuse my grammar, English is not my first language).

posted on 15 Aug 2012, 16:48

27. rusticguy (Posts: 2826; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)


Hmmm... only an illiterate would confuse between the products of two companies ... and since i can differentiate i will never buy anything with Apple Logo on it :)

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 13:35

18. aoikemono27 (Posts: 177; Member since: 27 Feb 2012)


Back in 2010 I bought my first Galaxy S phone. It had a horizontal, page based app drawer, back when EVERYONE ELSE on Android was using the standard vertical long list deal. It even had the cartoony colored borders around icons, just like Apple. All the reviews made direct comparisons to it and the iPhone. This one design choice is enough of a blatant ripoff. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence has said so and written about it. The kicker is it isn't confined to just Android. My Bada phone, the S8500 Wave, uses the exact same app drawer style. Forget all the other claims of infringement. All you need is this one to make a case. Do I think something so stupid should be sued over? No. But collectively, including the phone design and other elements, even Koreans will tell you Samsung is just ripping off the iPhone.

Asians like to copy things. Its just a cultural fact. I'm Asian. If you are not familiar as a tourist in an Asian country, the locals will tell you to avoid counterfeit items, because they are everywhere, as well as price gouging, since all prices are negotiable, and they start way up in the stratosphere, if you are none the wiser.

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 14:10

20. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


but guess what..

copying isnt illegal. Apple can claim copy from the high heavens to the pits of hell and they will still lose the case if that's all they have. They have to prove patent infringement, and it has to stand up to Samsung's claims and evidence that they shouldnt have the patents to begin with based on prior art.
So far, the Pinch to Zoom patent looks like it should clearly be thrown out without question. What's next? the bounce effect that was removed eons ago?

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 15:08

22. master0fursinz (Posts: 104; Member since: 26 Apr 2010)


Hey Zach Epstein over at BGR finally writes an article thats shows some proof that apple isn't "Revolutionary".http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/14/apple-samsung-patent -trial-rebuttal-diamond-touch/

Bottom line is that Mitsubishi had shown them their

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 15:18

23. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


they had a similar video with another company doing the same thing.

Both videos prove that Apple cant lay claim to P2Z. 2 finger expand and contract was long before apple came around.

And that BGR article noted something interesting.

"Samsung suggested that Apple knowingly stole the technology when its witness, Mitsubishi engineer Adam Bogue, testified that he showed the Diamond Touch to Apple engineers back in 2003".

posted on 14 Aug 2012, 15:24

24. master0fursinz (Posts: 104; Member since: 26 Apr 2010)


exactly, i just got stuck talking to someone and my post got cut off.

posted on 15 Aug 2012, 00:29

26. lycheeworm (Posts: 1; Member since: 14 Aug 2012)


Apple made the device which no one had done before but Samsung made a device which Apple had done before.

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