Qualcomm's CEO says mobile processor core wars pointless already, disses Samsung's octo-core claims
0. phoneArena 17 Jan 2013, 03:15 posted on
Qualcomm's outspoken CEO Paul Jacobs was caught on tape at a Born Mobile presentation in China to say that Samsung's Exynos 5 Octa eight-core mobile chip that got announced at CES uses a meaningless number for a publicity stunt, and the more cores you add, the more challenging it becomes to manage them, from an energy and thermal standpoint...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. _Bone_ (Posts: 2150; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
I smell jealousy. bigLITTLE is an excellent power-saving idea and it's basically a quad-core system, something Qualcomm also pushes as a great thing.
6. hung2900 (Posts: 909; Member since: 02 Mar 2012)
I don't know why people keep saying something just coming from guessing, like somebody bashed Samsung due to the lack of polycarbonat on S3 or Pentile on Note 2 without any simple searches.
Big.LITTLE's eight cores can run simultaneousy according to the speech of ARM in CES
9. _Bone_ (Posts: 2150; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
It doesn't operate as an octa-core, one just speeds up to take over then the other shuts down, that was explained during Samsung's event.
22. hung2900 (Posts: 909; Member since: 02 Mar 2012)
From ARM’s documentation
“Since a big.LITTLE system containing Cortex-A15 and Cortex-A7 is fully coherent through CCI-400 another logical use-model is to allow both Cortex-A15 and Cortex-A7 to be powered on and simultaneously executing code. This is termed big.LITTLE MP, which is fully heterogeneous scheduling.Whether a big processor needs to be powered on is determined by performance requirements of tasks currently executing. If there are demanding tasks, then a big processor can be powered on to execute them. Low demand tasks can execute on a LITTLE processor. Finally, any processors that are not being used can be powered down. This ensures that cores, big or LITTLE, are only active when they are needed, and that the appropriate core is used to execute any given workload.”
So only when is there no task that needs a Cortex A7 core, that core can be off. If there are so many threads (full-load), all cores are running
33. hung2900 (Posts: 909; Member since: 02 Mar 2012)
Watch the interview. About 1m30, the president of ARM clearly said that all 8 CPU run at the same time.
24. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Whatever the case, the main point with these 8 cores is to actually SAVE POWER.
Up to 71% less draw than Exynos 5 dual is brilliant.
23. zazori08 (Posts: 113; Member since: 21 Dec 2011)
i'll give you an example, because your description is wrong. it's like this. the are 4 A15 Cores and 4 A9 Cores right? the pattern goes like this. when your doing normal smartphone tasks like browsing, messaging, calling, etc. you won't need speedy A15 cores to do the job. that's the task of the A9 cores in the exynos 5 octa. then if you do smartphone addict-like things such as opening so many apps all at once. the A9 cores power down and the A15 cores take over so you won't miss a beat about what you're doing. It's mechanics is just like Nvidia's Tegra. The tegra like the one in the 3 or 4 has 4 cores either A7 for tegra 3 or A15 for tegra 4. has one power saving core to do exactly what the Exynos 5 octa was designed to do. It's just impossible to run 8 cores on a phone that has like 2500 mAh without charging relentlessly.
26. hung2900 (Posts: 909; Member since: 02 Mar 2012)
That's from guessing or from any reliable evidence?
Did they say that big.LITTLE and 4-PLUS-1 have the same idea or just simirlar idea with different implementations?
32. hung2900 (Posts: 909; Member since: 02 Mar 2012)
Watch the interview. About 1m30, the president of ARM clearly said that all 8 CPU can run at the same time.
34. zazori08 (Posts: 113; Member since: 21 Dec 2011)
i mean yes it's from a reliable evidence said by samsung themselves
35. zazori08 (Posts: 113; Member since: 21 Dec 2011)
the first sentence clearly states: "The new chip paradigm does what some chipmakers like NVIDIA or TI have been doing with their multicores for a while."
37. hung2900 (Posts: 909; Member since: 02 Mar 2012)
The word "paradigm" is just a way of thought: using energy efficient processor for low tasks, and stronger CPUs for heavy tasks, but the implementation can be different.
Basically the technology is belonged to ARM, so the source of the ARM's president is reliable, not from something you guessed.
38. zazori08 (Posts: 113; Member since: 21 Dec 2011)
da hell! i guessed? i showed you an article from phonearena and you're saying i guessed! you gotta have you head checked. and paradigm being a way of thought. grab a giant dictionary because paradigm is just an english word for pattern.
42. MeoCao (unregistered)
PA is not absolute authority in tech dude, try wiki.
43. hung2900 (Posts: 909; Member since: 02 Mar 2012)
Because of the sentence "The new chip paradigm does what some chipmakers like NVIDIA or TI have been doing with their multicores for a while.", you asserted Tegra 3 and big.LITTLE have the same implementation, and then Samsung Exynos 5 Octa cannot have 8 cores running at the same time.
Oh so it's not guessing huh? Just linking evidences "logically" right? And are you sure that it's easier to understand than the clear explanation that 8 cores can run at the same time from ARM's President?
40. MeoCao (unregistered)
I agree, theoretically 8 cores can run at the same time.
but this will make switching management system very complicated, and the processing power of little cores is limited so the popular implementation is pairing 1 big core with 1 little core and those cores can't run at the same time.
55. NexusKoolaid (Posts: 400; Member since: 24 Oct 2011)
It's not theoretical - depending on the big.LITTLE implementation all cores can operate at the same time. An ARM whitepaper describes two implementation models - the 'task migration' model and the 'mp' model. The Task Migration model is where only the A15 or the A7 can be active active any given time, where in MP model both can operate concurrently. If Samsung opted for the MP model, then Exynos can run on all 8 cores at once.
(Edit: looks like hung2900 beat me to the punch - reply #22 is pretty much spot-on)
14. MeoCao (unregistered)
Qualcomm is pushing its own Krait architecture instead of ARM's A15 and they are doing very well. I think it's good that Qualcomm has its own approach and they are not copying ARM, this is healthy competition.
Qualcomm has proved that Krait dual core can be just as good as A9 quadcore so it can prove again that its own S800 (quad core I guess) can compete with SS's octocore.
So lets wait and see.
17. darkkjedii (Posts: 17518; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)
U actually said something unbiased, and that makes complete sense. I agree with u too.
21. PhoneArenaUser (Posts: 5498; Member since: 05 Aug 2011)
I want to correct you Krait is ARM-based. ;)
And yes, competition is good for us, consumers. :)
27. MeoCao (unregistered)
who says not? it's like forking ARM
46. mick25 (banned) (Posts: 110; Member since: 12 Nov 2012)
"Qualcomm has proved that Krait dual core can be just as good as A9 quadcore"
No they didn't. Not sure what you're smoking there.
49. MeoCao (unregistered)
Many reviews I read said US verion (Krait dual core) and international version (A9 quad core) of GS3 have similar performance.
48. Hemlocke (unregistered)
Krait is still ARM-based, but it is not using rigid interpretations of core design in designing their own, like Samsung has to, since Samsung doesn't have an architecture license.
20. PhoneArenaUser (Posts: 5498; Member since: 05 Aug 2011)
"Qualcomm's CEO says mobile processor core wars pointless already..."
When Samsung anounces octo-core then Qualcomm's CEO shouts that it is pointless, but if octo-core was anounced by Qualcomm then Qualcomm's CEO woud't say that it is pointless.
30. MeoCao (unregistered)
He is doing his job, and that's telling people Qualcomm's chips can be just as good with fewer cores.
It would be disaster for Qualcomm if the public care only about the number of cores.
31. PhoneArenaUser (Posts: 5498; Member since: 05 Aug 2011)
"He is doing his job..."
I know, it is business.
47. OHaZZaR (Posts: 131; Member since: 19 Aug 2011)
They also have bragging rights, calling themselves the first chip producers with an octa-core processor, even though it is technically a pair of quad-cores, each with unique operations. I think this marketing stunt is actually working, and sooner or later other chipmakers will come up with an octa-core and when they do what'll qualcomm do, dismiss everything they said? Even qualcomm will someday bring an octa-core to the table.
53. richardyarrell2011 (banned) (Posts: 510; Member since: 16 Mar 2011)
Pretty conclusion this Mr.Jacobs it never pays to hate. Yes Qualcomm has been in the game for for ever and they are very very respectable. But Samsung they ARE NOT. The Exynos 5 Octa will be something industry leading. Qualcomm should appreciate innovative solutions don't hate like this.
2. wendygarett (unregistered)
Improve the lte, make it cool, increase developer support, and save more battery life.... Your dual core crapdragon s4 works perfectly fine on android device... And even buttery smooth on wp8... Improve the other than just the speed...
4. wendygarett (unregistered)
Typo again, is snapdragon >.
3. wtghjjbbg (Posts: 2; Member since: 16 Jan 2013)
except that samsung will use last years GPU on their new phone... powervr sgx544
8. nerdyking (Posts: 7; Member since: 26 Dec 2012)
we can't know for sure at this moment, all are just rumors.. at least Mali T604 or Mali T658..
15. jove39 (Posts: 1582; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
Not rumours...it was revealed SGX544MP3 is indeed used in Exyno5 Octa. Hope...in production soc samsung will be able to deploy SGX554MP4 just like A6x :)
5. easymomo (Posts: 91; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
Paul, it's big.LITTLE, you know, big.LITTLE....
52. easymomo (Posts: 91; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
If someone doesn't understand what I mean, the big.LITTLE is a kind of optimised quad core ==> Power saving up to 70% over previous generation.
I you understand how big.LITTLE works, you will understand it is the future of mobile devices cause you will always need less power for tasks like sending email or SMS
7. big.e927 (Posts: 94; Member since: 21 Nov 2012)
@Wendygarret hahaha, crapdragon.lmfao but seriously, people usually talk crap about the things they see the most threat in, that said-- the Exynos Octa 5 just might be the best processor of them all, but what really would matter most for us here in the states would have to be LTE connectivity which Samsung has yet to provide; only Qualcomm and oddly enough, Ericsson provide LTE enabled chips.
10. wendygarett (unregistered)
The only thing I impressed on Qualcomm is that their chips is very cool and never overheat compare to others...
12. big.e927 (Posts: 94; Member since: 21 Nov 2012)
Yeah, that's the thing that Qualcomm has mailed down, the power consumption factor in cell phones. Because power is distributed so well, it keeps it from overheating. But Exynos and Intel processors are being used in PCs and tablets.
45. mick25 (banned) (Posts: 110; Member since: 12 Nov 2012)
"never overheat compare to others"
yeah, that's why the optimus g and nexus 4 which uses qualcomm doesn't overheat at all
11. christumaini (Posts: 27; Member since: 25 Oct 2012)
sometimes we should learn to appreciate ...big little technology is awesome keep it up Sammy thats what innovation is all about!!!
16. Mitchel (Posts: 228; Member since: 25 May 2012)
I don't think of any reason why Qualcomm have said this, maybe envy? It's just pointless to me. They are not even a direct competitor of Samsung, infact they are partners for a long time..
18. big.e927 (Posts: 94; Member since: 21 Nov 2012)
@Mitchel obviously someone hasn't.heard about mature and weird competing relationship which is known as Apple vs Samsung.lol
19. rizaldiwn (Posts: 3; Member since: 06 Sep 2012)
agree with QUALCOMM, may be tomorrow QUALCOMM will create a powerful processor and gpu without needs a lot of cores
25. cameogt (Posts: 88; Member since: 18 Oct 2012)
and focus should be shifting to real advantages for the end user, like speedier downloads, smooth interface performance and precise positioning as things with more tangible added value. -- and that should how Samsung innovate.
36. joey_sfb (Posts: 4747; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)
The usual trash talking on competitors. The real world application will be revealed to us soon so no amount of marketing on Samsung or Qualcomm would matter than.
39. zazori08 (Posts: 113; Member since: 21 Dec 2011)
woah! some guy with a username hung2900 gives me a thumbs down for saying some facts with some evidence.
44. mick25 (banned) (Posts: 110; Member since: 12 Nov 2012)
That's ironic, seeing as how Qualcomm's snapdragondildo can barely manage 4 cores without heating up like an oven.
50. speckledapple (Posts: 892; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)
I think Samsung does have a winner on their hands and certainly helps make a stronger case for their phones in the future. I do agree a little that the processor war is not as important as how well it works with the software and allowing everything from small tasks to major tasks run just that more smoother and better.
51. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)
54. Edmund (Posts: 656; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
He's correct though. Intel can squeeze more power out of a quad core desktop processor than AMD get from an 8 core chip.
56. Shino (banned) (Posts: 196; Member since: 23 Jul 2012)
Well, we all know that Samsung is not best know for its CPU's or its phones. It manufactures electric ovens, microwaves, TV sets, washing machines, hi-fi stereos, excavation machinery etc. So I think there is a lot of truth in these words. The proof? See the new iPhone 5 - it has dual-core 1GHz, but it is still faster than 977987-core SG3. Simple.
57. MorePhonesThanNeeded (Posts: 645; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
Sounds all well and good in theory, but Qualcomm still has the best SoC's out there, Samsung can stuff all the core they can into a chip, right now it's all theoretical as we have yet to see one single device in action producing said benefits. I'm still waiting on Qualcomm to show off it's revised LTE baseband chips that use 50% less power and that would bode well for VoLTE since that crap rips through batteries because of the massive power draw.
58. cripton805 (Posts: 1210; Member since: 18 Mar 2012)
I think they just don't want to spend money to make an octocore. Think about it. If they stopped this feud, they would stick to their current processors and make tons of money off of their cheaper older techonology for the next two or three years.
59. MC1123 (Posts: 1254; Member since: 12 Nov 2012)
i also think samsung's exynos 5 octa is just a publicity stunt...
they want consumers to believe that their chips can do better than ultrabooks!
60. jsdechavez (Posts: 712; Member since: 20 Jul 2012)
I agree with him. Who needs octo-cores in a laptop or a desktop? The filthy rich hardcore gamer maybe. Now who needs 8-cores in a phone or tablet? Samsung is merely trying to stay on top I guess.