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Platform wars: Symbian losses turned mostly into Android gains, bada outgrows Windows Phone again

0. phoneArena 16 May 2012, 07:51 posted on

Over the first three months of 2012 some remarkable events happened - Symbian plunged in market share, and while at the same time last year Nokia’s platform…

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 16 May 2012, 07:56 13

1. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5719; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


Hmmm. Things aren't exactly looking good for Nokia or MS or RIM. There may not be anything left in market share by the time WP8 handsets start to ship.

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:19 4

9. -box- (Posts: 3778; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


Keep in mind there's a lot of folks still using non-smartphones that will want to "keep up with the Joneses" and will get a smartphone in the future, so the smartphone market is ever expanding. There's also huge markets in Asia, as well as a few small ones in Africa, where there are few, if any, cell phones at all, considered "developing countries" where simplicity and ease of use and efficiency will be paramount to just about anything else, and if any particular brand gets a foothold there (as Nokia is trying to do) those markets would gravitate towards a phone from the same maker.Microsoft and Nokia are playing a longer-term game, not expecting huge gains with the initial WP OS, but gaining more as WP8 is released and deployed globally with the new Windows8 ecosystem

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:39 2

27. Henrik (Posts: 141; Member since: 18 Feb 2012)


The numbers of Windows Phone users are note declining, it's the total amount of smartphone users all over the market that is growing - making the total market share statistics more cramped. One week it takes 100 000 users to reach 1%, next week it takes 1 million users to reach 1%. That's how it works, and is therefor not a reason to say Windows Phone is doing badly.

Windows Phone is going forward in sales, they are not losing customers. They are only losing market share (which is because Android and iOS have bigger sale numbers). Sales results and market share is not the same thing, you know. Internally, the companies can all go [+PLUS] but in market share, the smallest goes backwards due to weaker overall amount of sales.

posted on 16 May 2012, 12:42 4

38. Commentator (Posts: 2386; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)


From a units-sold perspective, MS increased a mere 5% from last year. To put it in perspective, Android increased by 123%, and Apple increased by 96%.

posted on 17 May 2012, 04:51

50. Henrik (Posts: 141; Member since: 18 Feb 2012)


Well, it's not like they just sold 5% phones during the whole year. First they sold just as many phones as last year and THEN added an extra 5% sale increse on top :-) Windows Phone's are smooth and perfect right out of the box, durable and upgradeable, we don't need to invest in new phones that often (compared to certain other camps, hrm) ;-) So it's pretty fair to say that there's a lot of new customers coming in, which is good!

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:00 3

2. deacz (Posts: 151; Member since: 02 Nov 2011)


I doubt the market will shrink

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:02 15

3. Sniggly (Posts: 6920; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


Smacked. Down.

Nice to see some good android news this morning.

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:19 15

10. -box- (Posts: 3778; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


Any day when reports prove that iOS market share is declining is a good day

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:52 11

15. remixfa (Posts: 13903; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


iOS grew but its miniscule growth was more than eclipsed by androids growth. from the looks of it, BADA kept pace with or outpaced iOS. lol peter would be so proud.

posted on 16 May 2012, 18:29 1

47. cepcamba (Posts: 717; Member since: 27 Feb 2012)


BADA is good. And they have great phones to go along with it (apps are the only problem).

I was really wondering why they dropped it, then came the news about TIZEN and everything got a bit clearer. :p

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:07 12

4. andro. (Posts: 1944; Member since: 16 Sep 2011)


Its unfortunate for windows but i've been saying it for ages,windows phones aren't popular,people don't like them and they are notoriously hard to sell. The big loser here as a result is nokia,symbian is on the way out and they made the fatal decision of choosing a smartphone os which was doomed long before they joined it.

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:08 8

6. shy2papa (Posts: 206; Member since: 23 Jan 2010)


My thoughts exactly

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:41 6

13. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5719; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


When dogs aren't eating the dog food, sales fall off a cliff and that is exactly what is happening to Nokia/MS. The only relatively good news is that RIM's sales implosion appears to have slowed. Whether that continues to the release of BB10 and the BB10 handsets is the next question.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:51 4

29. FoneAddict (Posts: 202; Member since: 05 Jul 2011)


Totally agree, If I were Nokia I would be devising a Plan B.

It's not exactly encouraging when the Bada platform outsells Nokia's chosen platform. Nokia really need to get their act together and at the very least start looking at other platform options.

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:07 6

5. shy2papa (Posts: 206; Member since: 23 Jan 2010)


Hate to say i told you sooooo :)

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:11 5

7. Alistaire (Posts: 132; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)


It's too early to judge. Wait till WP8 and BB10 and even Tizen to release.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:53 7

30. FoneAddict (Posts: 202; Member since: 05 Jul 2011)


If Nokia waits any longer without at least looking at other platform options it may be too late. It's time for Nokia to dump Windows Phone.

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:14 7

8. Jonathan41 (Posts: 526; Member since: 22 Mar 2012)


Windows need some more powerful hardware.

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:55 13

16. DontHateOnS60 (Posts: 849; Member since: 20 Apr 2009)


It has nothing to do with powerful hardware. It has more to do with the actual experience on each. If you used to use Symbian phones from Nokia, you would know that. Android is the next closest platform to Symbian in terms of available features and functionality, and it was THE reason I went to Android instead of iOS which everyone was pushing me towards. Nobody else even comes close.

I'm not saying the entire market is like me, but if you think about it, if people like something and are forced to change, they're going to go for something that's as similar to what they had as possible. That's why WP was not really the smarter option for Elop to go with. You end up alienating too many users because your new platform is radically different, too young, and lacks things they once had. WP is on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as I'm concerned feature and functionality wise, one step closer than iOS. I think that the possibility exists that MSFT could really open up the platform so devs could start making apps that allow us to have some of that functionality back.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:14 6

21. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Exactly..though it does have to do with hardware also

posted on 16 May 2012, 10:06 8

33. Victor.H (Posts: 410; Member since: 27 May 2011)


Good point with the similarity between Symbian and Android.

posted on 16 May 2012, 10:31 7

35. kanagadeepan (Posts: 664; Member since: 24 Jan 2012)


Exactly the reason why I have chosen Android instead of iDevices or WP...

My first Symbian phone (Nokia 3230) had True_MultiTasking, hot-swap memory card support, install apps from .sis files, Bluetooth file transfer, good FileManagers, Not always in need for desktop sw for each and every silly job, etc... NOKIA should be mad to expect me to move to Windows Phone, which has none of the above features...

Android is soo close and even better than Symbian and naturally most ex-symbian power users are now die hard Android fans... No wonder, imho...

posted on 16 May 2012, 14:10 2

40. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


You nailed it.
Symbian is a feature-packed OS.
One thing default Android lacks compared to it is a file manager.
But that's the beauty of Android-you can download and put just about anything on it, and make it better and more functional than any default OS can be.

posted on 16 May 2012, 16:35 2

45. steelicon (Posts: 309; Member since: 02 Apr 2011)


Looking forward to Nokia 808 PV and Sony Xperia Ion.

posted on 16 May 2012, 12:46 2

39. protozeloz (Posts: 5374; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


Symbian was one of my favorites OS's coming from P800, P900, P990 etc and I could agree with you

posted on 16 May 2012, 16:32 1

44. steelicon (Posts: 309; Member since: 02 Apr 2011)


+1B I would not migrate to WP unless it becomes similar to Symbian Belle FP1 and better in fucntionality.

posted on 21 May 2012, 04:15

53. Jonathan41 (Posts: 526; Member since: 22 Mar 2012)


Maybe I should have been more clear. My first smartphone was a Nokia N95 8GB and I loved it. I have no problem with Nokia/Symbian and I agree with everything you've said thus far but, lets face it. The way the market is today people want a device that has ground breaking capabilities. Some people will loose interest in a phone if the specs are subpar. You won't win in sale when your pushing last years specs. You may have good sales but, never great because hardware matters just as much if not more than what you've mentioned when it comes to sales numbers. If your argument was applied to Computer OS then Linux would be the most popular OS.

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:35 3

11. Alfred03 (Posts: 5; Member since: 12 May 2012)


@Andro...Hi! Well, I agree with U. :-)

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:37 2

12. Alfred03 (Posts: 5; Member since: 12 May 2012)


@Alistaire...Hi! Hmmm...I don't think! :-)

posted on 16 May 2012, 08:44 11

14. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Where are those loud, ridiculously naive Nokia + Windows fanboys now?
Those who thought Nokia will actually GAIN smartphone marketshare thanks to lumias?
Get this - Nokia is still on the smartphone map only thanks to its "burning platform" Symbian!
Next two quarters will be an epic disaster for them.

This is what I've been talking about for months now.
Damn, even Samsung's Bada phones greatly outsold entire windows phone lineup!
That's just over the top.

WP 7 is the greatest OS fail ever

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:56 7

31. FoneAddict (Posts: 202; Member since: 05 Jul 2011)


Totally agree. I feel sorry for Nokia (excluding Stephen EFlop!) as it seems they were duped into joining Microsoft. Time is running out for them, they really need to look at other platform options before it's too late and Microsoft buys Nokia out and that will be the end of Nokia.

Come on Nokia grow some balls and ditch Microsoft!

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:57 1

32. JSern (Posts: 282; Member since: 22 May 2011)


You're the greatest fail.

The graph only shows 2012 Q1 results, and narrow minded people like you likes to criticize about that case, kids these days.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:02 6

17. refreak (Posts: 29; Member since: 18 Dec 2011)


i knw i m getting a thousand dislikes on dis comment..
But still..
All the nokia haters..

"Wait and watch, my friend,
Just wait and watch".

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:11 6

19. Sniggly (Posts: 6920; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


I won't dislike. I don't like to see any company die, unless they've earned it. Nokia seems to give a s**t about phone design again, so it would suck if they went under now.

posted on 16 May 2012, 16:37 1

46. steelicon (Posts: 309; Member since: 02 Apr 2011)


Yes. About phone design. Ecosystem.

... but they left out the only thing that matters: Symbian users.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:03 7

18. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


My guess for Q2:

Android - 87-93m
iOS - 25-28m
Symbian - 9-12m
BlackBerry - 7-9m
Windows Phone - 3-4m
Bada - 2-3m

posted on 16 May 2012, 10:09 5

34. Victor.H (Posts: 410; Member since: 27 May 2011)


If I was guessing, I'd bet on the same numbers.

posted on 16 May 2012, 12:39 2

37. TylerGrunter (Posts: 905; Member since: 16 Feb 2012)


I also agree, with all but Bada.
Bada 3-4m
I doubt they will sell less next quarter and even expect that they´ll grow a bit. They have been steadily gaining numbers since last year.
My guess based on this:
http://www.amazon.de/gp/bestsellers/ce-de/3468301/ref=zg_bs_nav_ce_3_1384526031
Guess what´s the third phone most sold in Amazon Germany?
There are still loads of people that when they go for their first "cheap" smartphone they´ll go Bada (many of them will change to Android after that)

posted on 16 May 2012, 14:14 1

41. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Well, i thought it should decline a bit because of no new releases planned in Q2, and zero marketing from Samsung.
But it would be cool(and ironic, compared to WP) if your estimate turns out right.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:12

20. ron1niro (Posts: 54; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)


PA, can you please give us the stats from when the Lumia 900 was launched, because these stats are from January to March i think. there is no way that the platform could be losing market share with the buzz around the lumia sales, in fact i saw another report claiming that windows phone had surpassed RIM in the USA. People, use your brains, Windows phone can only go higher, they were at their lowest before Nokia got on board, they will never go lower than that again because there are more phones being made,
more phones being bought and more adverts being made. They were low at that time because there were very few phones that had their os. Now, they are surely selling more phones than they ever have, and you believe that their market share is declining?

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:23 6

24. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


You should use your brain..their market share is going down steeply because Symbian is where they had their foothold.
In q2 they will sell a bit more Lumias, but overall WP share will probably go down nevertheless because of disastrous WP sales of other brands, and because of worldwide smartphone market sale increase.

Lumias are not doing good at all, if you compare them with iphones or galaxies..heck even LG and Sony sold several times more androids than Nokia sold their lumias.
And when you consider that their hardware and software CAN'T BE IMPROVED until WP8 arrives, the prospects are pretty horrible in the meantime.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:15 6

22. mss1988 (Posts: 29; Member since: 19 Apr 2012)


My prediction:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-57bNPS3w85Y/T7O2c1SF1jI/AAAAAAAAJ6M/gwHBdh2cn_8/s1202/prediction.png

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:27 5

26. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Great job

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:17 3

23. Bluesky02 (Posts: 1439; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)


I hope among those Android numbers there's an increase in Ice Cream Sandwich.
As far Windows Phone, we all know carriers and manufacturers want Windows Phone 8 LTE. So don't hope for any big numbers this year.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:26 2

25. ron1niro (Posts: 54; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)


If you want the truth about the market share at this time in the USA, Australia, Germany, go to Kantar worldpanel, they have just published the actual figures.

posted on 16 May 2012, 09:45 5

28. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Remember - this doesn't yet factor the SGS3 future sales. Android is going to STOMP iOS! :)

posted on 16 May 2012, 11:26 1

36. GJanee (Posts: 214; Member since: 29 Jun 2011)


geez, so much nonsense and bulls**t in the comment section... i don't even want to react to them. haters gonna hate.

posted on 16 May 2012, 14:32 3

42. CivicSi89 (Posts: 348; Member since: 23 Jul 2011)


What the frak is Bada?

posted on 16 May 2012, 16:06 3

43. Stuntman (Posts: 711; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)


Nokia should have went with Bada instead of Windows Phone.

posted on 18 May 2012, 09:33 1

52. RobotMan (Posts: 125; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)


+1 Best comment of the day.

posted on 16 May 2012, 18:30 1

48. downphoenix (Posts: 2301; Member since: 19 Jun 2010)


Peter from Sweden was right partly. Bada may not be all that, but its more popular than WP7 which Microsoft has spent more than $2bln in advertising for it.

posted on 16 May 2012, 21:26

49. lumialove (Posts: 75; Member since: 16 May 2012)


oh yeah! People seem to be so much ignorant about the fact that lumia 900 is making waves in US of A and is constantly in the top spot for 3rd week in people's reviews in various technology sites like phonedog.com and according to siri lumia 900 is the best smartphone ever.

posted on 17 May 2012, 07:46 2

51. ThreeFourSeven (Posts: 34; Member since: 23 Nov 2011)


If Windows Phone was selling great. Microsoft would release the numbers already cause you know they like to brag about sales.

posted on 22 May 2012, 09:02

54. steelicon (Posts: 309; Member since: 02 Apr 2011)


This is not exactly "news" but in retrospect should clarify current situations a bit about Nokia's current state of affairs.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/05/30/gates_rails_at_proprietary_symbian/

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