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Patent at the core of Android interpreted in Apple's favor

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Patent at the core of Android interpreted in Apple's favor
An interpretation of Apple's '263 patent has been made by United States Circuit Judge Richard A. Posner in a way that could lead to HTC being found guilty of infringing on the patent. That could be bad news for Android manufacturers as the technology covered by the patent is at the core of Android powered handsets. That means it is not a UI or hardware design that can be changed to workaround the patent.

HTC originally was found to have infringed on Apple's realtime API patent by an ITC Administrative Law Judge, but the 6 member ITC Commission reached a final decision on the ruling and reversed the ALJ. The final ruling was that HTC infringed on Apple's less important
"Data Detectors" patent and said it would be removed from the Taiwan based manufacturer's devices.

Apple claims that Andry Rubin brought '263 to Android

Apple claims that Andry Rubin brought '263 to Android

Apple appealed the ruling based on HTC's insistence that the word "realtime" used in the patent changed its meaning to one that could not be infringed upon by Android. Apple, meanwhile, went back to the days when it was developing the '263 patent and the use of it at Google by Android's top developer, Andy Rubin. Rubin's career, claimed Apple, started at the Cupertino based company where he was a low-level engineer who reported to the developers of the '263 patent at the time it was under development.

According to the order from Judge Posner, the '263 patent (which is the same as the Realtime API patent),"I therefore construe 'realtime application program interface' in claim 1 of the '263 patent to mean an 'API that allows realtime interaction between two or more sub-systems," which is exactly the interpretation that Apple wanted. According to Florian Mueller of FOSS Patents, with that interpretation, HTC could be found guilty by a jury of infringing on the patent, but less likely to find the patent invalid.

If it sounds like Android might have a major problem soon, Foss Patents' Mueller agrees saying that if an appeals court agrees with Judge Posner, major problems could be ahead for Android. And Mueller says that the ruling by the judge will carry more weight with the CAFC than the ruling by the 6 member ITC.

source: FossPatents via AppleInsider

Judge Posner's ruling on the interpretation of the patent

Judge Posner's ruling on the interpretation of the patent


49 Comments
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posted on 29 Jan 2012, 19:42

1. Nickmfnjackson (Posts: 101; Member since: 21 Jan 2010)


*ducks and covers*

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 01:23 11

34. anywherehome (Posts: 971; Member since: 13 Dec 2011)


die Apple!!!! you are not able to compete so you are just able to sue for a rectangle...
DIE!

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 08:34 3

44. deago78 (Posts: 157; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


Well they do compete pretty well, but I understand why you're angry. It will be bad for everyone if this goes through. Dropping competition is never good.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 19:46 1

2. HockeyDood (Posts: 64; Member since: 14 May 2010)


Hold on to your butts....

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 19:59

3. clevername (Posts: 1428; Member since: 11 Jul 2008)


Whoa...this could be bad.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 20:15 6

4. cheetah2k (Posts: 817; Member since: 16 Jan 2011)


RAPI = API???

And this is what happens when you put technology on the stand to be judged by those not knowing WTF it all means.....

What's most important about this determination is not Android - but what does it mean for Linux and the term "open source" in general????

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 20:38 5

5. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


i think u mean RAPI = APIR if u read the last part in quotes…

and this judge graduated from yale undergrad and harvard grad so somehow i think he knows what he is talking about...

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:09 12

7. remixfa (Posts: 13909; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


can you tell me how graduating from a prestigious law school automatically makes you knowledgeable in tech and more importantly, in coding? Knowing how to interpret the law and knowing how to interpret similar codes are not the same thing.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:23 5

10. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


basically i am demonstrating that by having an advanced degree in law from school such as those, he would be the most qualified to determine legally what terms mean as far as law goes.. maybe not in the tech world but in the legal world he would be the most qualified to interpret it

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 23:46 3

25. G2Noobin (Posts: 81; Member since: 17 Dec 2011)


Unless he is bought out!! lmao you think people can't be bought! so innocent!

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 00:17 4

30. ardent1 (Posts: 1997; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


It's also what he did after he graduated from Havard Law school.

"Posner has been called "the world’s most distinguished legal scholar."[1] He is the author of nearly 40 books on jurisprudence, economics, and several other topics, including Economic Analysis of Law, The Economics of Justice, The Problems of Jurisprudence, Sex and Reason, Law, Pragmatism and Democracy, and The Crisis of Capitalist Democracy. The Journal of Legal Studies has identified Posner as the most cited legal scholar of the 20th century.[2] (source: Wikipedia)"

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 03:16 2

37. thinking (Posts: 130; Member since: 19 Jan 2012)


None of those appear to be anything to do with technology.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 04:39

42. rf1975 (Posts: 245; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)


Ok. leave him (Lucas 777). But if you need clarification from an expert look this link.

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/09/update-on-itc-investigation-of-apples.html

I do not know weather Apple right or Rubin right. But If Rubin use this patent intentionally then its wrong. Because he was working on this 263 patent as a low level engineer. We will wait and see.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:18 4

9. 14545 (Posts: 1112; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)


Unless it's a computer science degree from either one, I don't see how it's relevant where the F--- he graduated? A law degree is not the same as a science degree. And let the record show that I am in no way belittling his accomplishments, just discrediting an assertion that you made. Try again.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:24 3

11. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


so he is not attempting to make a feat in technology.. he is making things into legal terms which i think he is qualified to do by going to such good schools and obviously receiving a good education

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:34 5

13. remixfa (Posts: 13909; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


bah, they all teach the same thing. i really doubt that you get that much better of an education between harvard and your local university. not enough to justify the expense though. its the experience and the ability to say you went to harvard that you are paying for.

And again, no one is judging his law credentials. you are a lawyer before you are a judge normally. That doesnt mean he knows enough about electronics to make an informed judgement on the matter at hand. And thats the issue.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:52 3

17. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


u really do get a better education, even if u dont believe it… there might not be a big difference between the ivys and say georgetown or ucla, but there is a bg difference between harvard and community college

well if he wasnt informed enough, he would not be the person to make the decision then… i doubt he blindly made the decision.. but in my opinion, i would certainly want someone as qualified as him to make it rather than some other judge/lawyer who might not be as educated--as it appears this is a pretty big issue

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 23:43 3

23. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5793; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


District Court Judges make mistakes all the time. That is why there is an appeals court and ultimately the Supremes to review the appellate courts. This fight ain't over yet. Although we probably have the reason why Google paid $12+ Billion for Moto's patent portfolio.... Its called an insurance bet.

Apple's tab for this fight is probably headed into the $200 million territory. Hey, why not drop $250 million on it. Then we can all be talking about a quarter billion pricetag. But this isn't even rounding error on a $90+ Billion pile of cash Apple has accumulated from screwing its partners employees or schoolkids around the country.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 00:26 1

31. ardent1 (Posts: 1997; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


And you wonder why Apple has all that cash for -- to defend themselves from people or companies who steal their ideas.

There is a saying in life: The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 03:23 5

40. thinking (Posts: 130; Member since: 19 Jan 2012)


steal their idea? You write a realtime API. I write another. They may do the same thing. What is the idea being stolen?

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 08:43 1

45. cnpthe3rd (Posts: 49; Member since: 01 Feb 2009)


no apple has all that cash from stealing other peoples ideas and mostly from convincing the world that apple is better than anyone else and you will line up and drop down what ever amount of money we say and we will tell you what you want and you will be happy because we said so

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 16:21

47. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)


and apple would not even exist today had jobs not have stolen from ibm.........

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 23:47

26. G2Noobin (Posts: 81; Member since: 17 Dec 2011)


Can he not be bought or an avid iphone user?

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 03:37 1

41. thinking (Posts: 130; Member since: 19 Jan 2012)


Have you a graduation from Harvard law and another law graduation? If not, how are you making that comparison?

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 00:28 1

32. ardent1 (Posts: 1997; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


> bah, they all teach the same thing.

No, they do NOT.

remix, when you graduate from Havard with a law degree, then we might believe you -- right now, that degree is absent from your life and therefore you have little basis for your baseless assertion.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 06:59 2

43. remixfa (Posts: 13909; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


did you graduate from harvard law?

yea, i didnt think so.

then you have just as little incite as i do, so shut yer trap.

Here's a funny thing though. If you go to harvard or if you go to joe's local community law school, you have to pass THE EXACT SAME BAR EXAM.
the information taught is the same. period. The degree from harvard just opens doors to big companies faster and looks nice on the wall.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 03:17 1

38. thinking (Posts: 130; Member since: 19 Jan 2012)


APi / realtime are not legal terms but technical programming terms.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 03:18 1

39. thinking (Posts: 130; Member since: 19 Jan 2012)


A "good school" does not automatically translate into good education. And it certainly does not translate into good education in an area you did NOT study there.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 03:14 1

36. thinking (Posts: 130; Member since: 19 Jan 2012)


undergrad and grad in what?
Where is not a concern.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 14:03

46. debsid (Posts: 2; Member since: 30 Jan 2012)


I agree with you when you say that a judge dosent know much about technology, (since it is his job to judge what is presented to him by Liars er..um Lawyers, but Android is not open source nor a pure Linux environment, it is "using" a Linux kernel with Java slapped on top, and malware accessing your private info.
Tizen will be the new shift for Samsung, and other companies who are in the same google boat. The main reason for Samsung to shift to Tizen is because of Androids infringement to Apple Products (iPhony). Lawsuits are being sent to any manufacturer who infringes upon Apples software technology, according to the lawyers and judges (swayed & paid). Tizen is the way out since it is open source and the licensing falls under different terms than proprietary software, and is just as powerful since it is UNIX based! Just like iOS & Windows is (which are proprietary), but the only difference with Open Source is the user & community controls what the OS evolves to, not the greedy corporation!

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 20:59 7

6. Tarkio (Posts: 30; Member since: 17 Jan 2012)


Man, apple must really feel like they are on shaky ground to strike this early at android. Usually this tactic comes out when the race is almost completely lost, and its the last move a company has left. Generally, at least a decade goes by before a company tries to work on this type of patent on the fundamentals of a system. Apple must not be hitting the sales figures they were hoping for.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:25 3

12. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


their last earnings report begs to differ…

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:36 1

15. Tarkio (Posts: 30; Member since: 17 Jan 2012)


Begs to differ what?

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:55 2

18. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


that they are not hitting the sales figure they wanted.. tim cook says "We’re thrilled with our outstanding results and record-breaking sales of iPhones, iPads and Macs"

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 22:22 5

20. Tarkio (Posts: 30; Member since: 17 Jan 2012)


Well, almost every company SAYS they are happy with their sales, unless they are just horrible. That doesn't mean they are happy that the race with android has slipped away already. They have fallen way back in market share, and the trend is that it's getting worse, and fast. I said sales figures, but I probably should have say market share. Any more arguments?

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 22:57 1

22. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


haha well sales figures and market share are quite different… and can u provide a link that shows apple marketshare declining rapidly? a recent one i mean… because from reports (although i doubt all have it completely accurate) dont seem to support what ur saying… no doubt android has more market share, but i dint think apple is declining rapidly either

http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-brief/61070-android-suffers-first-ever-market-share-decline

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 00:30 3

33. Tarkio (Posts: 30; Member since: 17 Jan 2012)


Well, in less than five years, apple has soared onto the scene and was blowing every previously existing platform away. Now they have just over a quarter of smart phones. They had a huge quarter, after pretty low sales in the previous quarter while everyone was waiting for the new one. And now they slow down again, and android will gain even more, and when a new iphone comes out, it will temporarily make up some of the ground. The smart phone market is in it's infancy on the world scene, still less than 20% of all phones. So holding about 25% of that 20% isn't a strong position to be in at all, unless you are just gaining ground like crazy, which they are not. One blip quarter means nothing when you have one phone.

This is an almost exact replay of apple losing market share to windows in the 1990's.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 18:14

48. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


marketshare does not mean everything though… apple is worth more than any other tech company without dominating an entire market in their best-selling device… 20 percent is enough for them to make more money than any other android manufacturer… so i see no reason why they are decreasing in whatever u r trying to say… they arent losing market share, and they are gaining tons and tons of revenue

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 23:50 1

28. TKFox007 (Posts: 303; Member since: 02 Nov 2010)


I think he was being sarcastic, meaning that although Apple had record numbers, they still wanted more.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:09 5

8. remixfa (Posts: 13909; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


well great, just when it looked like all the madness might have an expiration date, we get a whole new carton of eggs to be tossed around.

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:35

14. Sackboy117 (Posts: 178; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


So are these the Wars of the 21st century?

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 23:45

24. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5793; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


Well, if you subscribe to the notion that war is politics by other means, then patent litigation is bidness by other means....

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 21:43

16. ivanko34 (Posts: 617; Member since: 04 Sep 2011)


Apple is going to give us a better world without Android
Or certainly worse

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 22:12 4

19. DechyX (Posts: 114; Member since: 16 May 2011)


Way to go Apple!!! That's the way to bring innovation and diversity to the technology world... by trying to smother, crush, strangle, and stomp any and all competition. As if the billions wasn't enough... let's try and make sure no one else can even make a million... this shtuff is ridiculous!

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 22:35 2

21. sadaivadai (Posts: 156; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)


i am not a tech freak .. Can anyone explain it clearly in simple English what will happen to Android ??

posted on 29 Jan 2012, 23:49 1

27. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5793; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


Too soon to tell. This litigation is in its infancy. There will be an inevitable appeal. The appeal decision will be appealed by the loser to the Supremes. Even if the Supremes rule in Apple's favor, there is the matter of other patents (Moto's & Sammy's patent portfolios) that Apple is probably infringing. And, and, and. At the end of the day (more like decade), there will be some sort of global settlement where someone pays someone else a bunch of cash and everyone goes off into the sunset. The losers handset prices will increase by about $10 to $20 apiece.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 00:06 1

29. TKFox007 (Posts: 303; Member since: 02 Nov 2010)


Well even if HTC is found guilty, the US courts aren't going to have their products pulled from the shelves or forbidden to be sold. The courts will just have HTC pay for the patent licensing fees, products only get pulled off the shelves in the US if they're dangerous.

posted on 30 Jan 2012, 03:12 1

35. thinking (Posts: 130; Member since: 19 Jan 2012)


"API that allows realtime interaction between two or more sub-systems"
There is a patent for THIS?

posted on 31 Jan 2012, 13:05

49. deviantirish79 (Posts: 24; Member since: 23 Jan 2012)


If the Patent is embedded in Android Apple should go after Google. Not the manufacturers using Googles software. If this goes through and Apple wins through manufacturer's instead of going after Google then Apple will take this patent to Samsung, Motorola, LG, Pantech, ZTE, and all other Android Manufactures.

Apple should be going after Google for the patent infringement. But it seems that they are to scared of Google since they still haven't taken them on head to head.

The manufacturer's are only simply using the provided OS.

And if Apple does win and Google buys Motorola hopefully Google will go after patent infringement for Apple using some patents for having a cell phone and knocks Apple back to simply making iPod's. Or Motorola takes Apple on before hand.

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