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Nokia's debt downgraded to less than junk

0. phoneArena 05 Jul 2013, 21:19 posted on

How potentially worthless is debt issued by Nokia? After the Finnish based handset manufacturer purchased the half of a joint network equipment venture owned by Siemens for $2.2 billion, S&P lowered its rating on Nokia debt by one notch from BB- to B+; Nokia's debt was already at junk levels before the downgrade. Bonds rated at that level or lower are not allowed in the portfolios of certain bond funds...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 02:31 3

59. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)

Nokia not even on top 5 in smartphone :D
Buy lumia and help nokia alone :D

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 02:53 2

60. WHoyton1 (Posts: 1635; Member since: 21 Feb 2013)

Yeh its sure a big flop to be the fastest selling smartphone.....stay on topic idiot

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 03:33 1

64. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)

well its obvious samsung got overconfident with their SGS4 and made it of cheap stuff and produced way more then what they could sell and they didnt got all of them sold out

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 03:53 3

67. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)

Nokia not even in top 5 in smartphione list :D

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 04:41 2

69. Pedro0x (Posts: 271; Member since: 19 Oct 2012)

I agree that they got overconfident, I don´t think Samsung expected that competion would be that strong (htc one). But I do not agree that SGS4 is made up from cheap stuff. It is made up from polycarbonate, same as all lumias, but lumias are just thicker so it makes them feel more durable. Bigger battery than everyone else in smaller body, better internals than for example htc one and way better than all lumias. Samsung made a mistake with not putting S800 in SGS4 or should have worked better on their octa SoC(its drivers need fixing). But as you can see customers do not care, 20 million sold in two months, that is fantastic.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 06:19 4

70. fsnas (Posts: 104; Member since: 18 Jun 2012)

you always look at the empty half of the cup.
Nokia was already drowning, everybody were losing their job.
maybe some of them lost their jobes but Steven saved the rest!
you have to do sacrifices in life and if you can't, you can't be a CEO!

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 06:37 2

71. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

Let's look at history here, kiddos. Picture it: Earth, pre-2010. Nokia is selling more than 100 million phones per year, and its next closest rivals are NOWHERE close to that. However, like all leaders, sometimes there is a fall from grace as things go unchanged, and plans set in motion tests before bear fruit, but the plans made to succeed the now-met goals don't match the reality of the changing world situation. A change is needed, a drastic one, and while using an in-house OS has worked for years, and another company is doing well with their own, it will be too expensive and waste too much time to bring it to market, and.even then success is not guaranteed, nor is support from developers. Enter a few candidate alternatives: First choice: go with the OS that has recently become mainstream and has good growth potential, it is highly unpolished, somewhat chaotic, and, excepting developer support in North America - the then-biggest market for cell phones - has a worse customer and corporate experience than the existing OS the company uses, especially as it needs expensive cutt.ing-edge components to operate even somewhat well, and is also the subject of several lawsuits, costs royalty money to avoid more lawsuits, and the OS company cannot or will not help the world's biggest handset maker with the conversion. Second choice: continue developing own in-house OS, which has some great features, but little development support, few standout features, and has been so grossly mismanaged it is almost an embarrassment. Third choice: jump on the bandwagon with a few other OEMs who are developing a near new OS, but won't have true smartphone capability until at least halfway through the decade, if then. Fourth option: work with the biggest name in computers and software to have their new, tested, and very modern OS as the future of the company's smartphones, while receiving billions in dollars in assistance to help during the conversion, and lots of development support, as well as the freedom and power too help make future OS versions even better and live up to the handset manufacturer's legendary reputation. Fifth option: gradually sell off handset business, and subsist as just a patent-rich R&D lab, selling licenses for all shareable technology, while leaving the largest and most loyal mobile customer base to go with a less-satisfying competitor, while diluting and decreasing the quality of devices worldwide. Along with all the options comes the burden of paring down a bloated bureaucracy and clearing out excess positions and wasteful departments and employees to minimize spending as much as possible.

I know which I would choose.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 07:08 2

75. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

Exactly! Numbers don't lie, and 20 MILLION is a pretty big number, no matter what was expected. And that's just the first two months. All I'm saying is I know, that YOU know, the GS4 was nowhere near being a "flop". No one was impressed by the Lumia 928, 925, iPhone 4S or 5, but that doesn't make them flops does it?

And remember... The numbers don't lie.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 07:15 2

76. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

Would that be the path of least resistance? Because that's not what Nokia did, and they're paying for it right now. Two OSs would have been the best option but hey, it's M$'s company to ruin now, or it will be soon.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 07:25 2

78. papss (unregistered)

Numbers don't lie but when your that large a company your cost is also thru the roof to maintain so its still isn't good for SS. There are more variables than just sold phones

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 07:26

79. papss (unregistered)

So you don't have an intelligent comment so you once again resort to name calling? Classy

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 07:54 3

83. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

Oh, I'm not defending the fact that their stock has dropped. The guy said the GS4 was a flop... In what world is that true. Even the experts, disappointed as they may be, still say is the best phone on the market right now, arguably the second best. Who is calling it a flop other then this guy?

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 07:57

84. Eonnaydra (Posts: 217; Member since: 23 Oct 2012)

iPhone 5 is the fastest selling smarthphone.
5 millions units sold in 2 days.Now are over 100 millions of iPhone 5 sold with Q3 2013.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 08:02 1

85. papss (unregistered)

Agreed its no flop in the sales department but his comments while ridiculous are no worse than have the nonsense I here from some others.
Lots of variables with such a large company.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 12:23

91. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)

Well that's what happens when you rely and use Snapdragon chips. Fans were hoping for the Exynos CPU, but Samsung used Snapdragon. So they could not achieve there goals! S600 SOC is used commonly everywhere! A9 Cortex is old and outdated. Consumers and fans were hoping wishing for the A15 SOC!

Big little by Arm was OK, if Samsung only clocked it at 1.8Ghz then there would've been no lag. Or just went straight for 4 A15s with a bigger battery. But no! How stupid of Samsung....

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 12:57 2

93. MartyK (Posts: 906; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)

You're wasting your time trying to explain to the Elopans, they, (like their leader Elop) can't see the writting on the wall--
Like a old song goes...Another one bites the dust.

The fat lady is singing.
Turn off the lights their party is over.
Dead company wobbling/walking.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 13:07 1

94. Heritor (Posts: 47; Member since: 05 Nov 2012)

Are you a moron? With all of the phones and momentum that Samsung had before the Lumia line was even launched do you even think that Samsung reaching 20 million is a big deal?

Thats like saying "HEY GUYS TOYOTA JUST SOLD A TON OF CARS WHILE BMW SOLD LESS!!". Look at the iPhone sales.... mind share and current market share makes for good sales numbers.

Please take a business class before you talk about stuff you have ZERO clue about.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 13:51 2

96. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

And you must be stupid if you can't see what I'm talking about. The guy said the phone is a flop! According to the dictionary, a flop is described as an "ungainly movement". Now, has there been no movement with the release of the Galaxy S4 or have the sold a whole effing lot of them? No one else is selling 10 million phones a month, so to call the best selling device today a flop is just silly, so why are you following him down that rabbit whole? You guys can make this a Samsung vs Nokia fight if you want, but don't put words in my mouth

Second, keep the name calling to a minimum. You respect me, and I return the favor. But I'm wont entertain childish name calling and insults. Ask around, I'm a decent guy to debate with, but let's keep it about the phones.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 14:38 2

98. papss (unregistered)

Agree.. These new guys come in and act like this is a troll infested site that they can talk like that.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 14:42

99. akki20892 (Posts: 3902; Member since: 04 Feb 2013)

how many times i have to tell you guys that i can't read that much comments......oh god.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 15:50

101. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)

Well said +1

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 21:50

6. duwiegeneral (Posts: 48; Member since: 07 Dec 2012)

it take an educated fool to design a bike bt it take a genius to discover fire so nt bcuz some fool who sit in a office all day a study maths 1 and 1 is is 2 nt must b rite bcuz 1 and 1 can b call 11 str888 yard man point no offence...

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:22 10

17. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

NO offense? We don't even know if what you're speaking is English! No one is offended, we're all confused. No offense.

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:31 5

23. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)


posted on 05 Jul 2013, 23:11 4

28. abcdefgh (banned) (Posts: 471; Member since: 29 Mar 2013)


posted on 06 Jul 2013, 01:38

55. duwiegeneral (Posts: 48; Member since: 07 Dec 2012)

and you suppose to be mega troll gay wife who's just simply backing her husband statement??

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 02:55 5

61. WHoyton1 (Posts: 1635; Member since: 21 Feb 2013)

Y u no speak properly!

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 08:29

86. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)

Yea what kind of english is that?
Raago or bad boy english that makes no sense.
I believe its called ragga muffin english.

Lmfao. ®

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:05 6

7. GoBears (Posts: 454; Member since: 27 Apr 2012)

Nokia using WP exclusively is going to bury them. I'm not saying they should be exclusively Android but they should at least make an Android handset or two and get in on the major carriers asap.

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:26 4

20. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)



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