Nokia's debt downgraded to less than junk
0. phoneArena 05 Jul 2013, 21:19 posted on
How potentially worthless is debt issued by Nokia? After the Finnish based handset manufacturer purchased the half of a joint network equipment venture owned by Siemens for $2.2 billion, S&P lowered its rating on Nokia debt by one notch from BB- to B+; Nokia's debt was already at junk levels before the downgrade. Bonds rated at that level or lower are not allowed in the portfolios of certain bond funds...
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1. zekes (Posts: 229; Member since: 14 Aug 2012)
look like palm be4 they went down but i love NOKIA u can come up and palm come back WEOS
31. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)
S&P is basically worthless and corrupt, and it's always best to try and ignore their absurd mutterings. That is exactly what investors have done, pushing NOK beyond four dollars. It will move even higher next week, because nobody cares about the S&P, given that their downgrades are rarely legit. Besides, if the rumors turn out to be true, then Microsoft is likely to be on the recieving end of the handset business, and then Nokia will become a pureplay company, just like Ericsson...
Most Nokia Stock holders are not afraid, and expect that NOK will continue to rise in value as it pushes towards Q2 earnings on July 18th.
72. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
I believe WebOS is pretty much dead and buried. HP isn't going to try to support it and get it off the ground when a company like blackberry is struggling with its own OS, especially when other successful OS options are available. As far as I know HP isn't even making any handsets right now.
87. akki20892 (Posts: 3900; Member since: 04 Feb 2013)
EOS EOS EOS EOS.......Zoom it and take moon photo......!!!
97. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
And don't limit it to just the 2nd largest carrier in the U.S.
89. AppleHateBoy (unregistered)
I would love to see Nokia use their 41 megapixel Pureview tech to make a Point and shoot camera that costs 300$ and comes with 10x optical zoom, with OIS and other camera features.
68. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 3605; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)
Um...i like Nokia and everything that comes with it. But comparing an OEM with an OS is not a fair thing to do.
If you also mean WP>Android, that wouldn't be fair either. Both are good in their own way.
100. NakedSnake (Posts: 4; Member since: 07 Jun 2013)
What I meant, is that the only actual way for Nokia to save itself, is to go with Android for its top smartphones. That was an arrow to the right anyway, not an "higher than" sign.
103. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 3605; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)
Well, the snake was naked so i couldn't see through. :P
3. JojoGo101 (Posts: 211; Member since: 17 Dec 2012)
It has come to this? If your the Chief Executive Officer, shouldn't you be doing something to bring profits?
4. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
Stephen elop always has a smile on his face. No matter how serious things are, cause MS is paying him under the table!
8. fsnas (Posts: 102; Member since: 18 Jun 2012)
you don't know the guy's intentions.
don't talk bad about him like that, it's not ethical!
12. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
He's a 3 times failure as a ceo in his past record.®
15. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
The guy who killed his own 5 OS. And your telling me not to talk bad about him. Jesus christ. Are you that unaware. The guy who sold his own headquarter and vertu and laid of thousands of poor workers. Yea pos he is more like.®
19. xperiaDROID (banned) (Posts: 5629; Member since: 08 Mar 2013)
Oh please, Elop didn't kill anything, Symbian is dying before Elop joined Nokia. Can you stop posting sh1* comments?
I think you should work at Foxconn, TROLL.
22. PapaSmurf (Posts: 10409; Member since: 14 May 2012)
"... Symbian [was] dying before Elop joined Nokia."
Sorry, it was bothering me.
26. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
When eflop took over Nokia was on noch below perfect this at time of global economies crisis when most Nokia rivals were reporting loses- the reasons why those credit rating downgraded Nokia was because of those Nokia lumia phones were bad, because there were no carrier support. The retail support was lacking. Carriers refuse to sell Nokia wp!
Elop who rather when he had four smartphone oses platform killed, all 3 that were popular and loved by Nokia users, and now insist on contuning with the platform that is most hated of all smartphone platform production. No other windows partner is foolish enough to put all their eggs in this broken basket. But eflop is! This is yet more proof that eflop is not acting in Nokia's best interest and must be fired right now. ®
34. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)
Hey TROLL, how'd yah like the drop in Samsung's stock value? It seems like the S4 is something of a flop ;o)
38. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)
Its not flop
They just missed the forcasted shipmemts
But still 20 million has been sold which is much faster than s3
what about lumia??
2011+2012+2013 sales= less than 15 or may be 10 million
42. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)
Did you know that the drop in Samsung stock was roughly the same value as Sony's worth? You can say what you like about Nokia, but Sammy's products are over-priced and over-hyped, and that's why the stock has dropped like a rock...
44. Whateverman (Posts: 3250; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Ok, fanboyism is one thing... But what you just said borders on lunacy. The Galaxy S4... a flop? Come on now, you can do better than that.
45. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)
Unfortunately, Sammy missed expectations because the S4 didn't sell as well as was hoped. Investors were simply not very impressed, which triggered a MASSIVE drop in the value of Samsung stock...
The numbers don't lie ;o)
48. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)
Even if they missed it
Still they will post a huge profit in comparison to last q2 2012
And gs4 has already sold 20 million
AsK nokia what is 20 million :D
Because they just dream of that figures :D
56. user996 (Posts: 215; Member since: 25 Feb 2013)
realy? how many percent of phones (in general, not only smartphone or so) is Nokia in whole world? can you say?
59. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)
Nokia not even on top 5 in smartphone :D
Buy lumia and help nokia alone :D
64. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
well its obvious samsung got overconfident with their SGS4 and made it of cheap stuff and produced way more then what they could sell and they didnt got all of them sold out
69. Pedro0x (Posts: 271; Member since: 19 Oct 2012)
I agree that they got overconfident, I don´t think Samsung expected that competion would be that strong (htc one). But I do not agree that SGS4 is made up from cheap stuff. It is made up from polycarbonate, same as all lumias, but lumias are just thicker so it makes them feel more durable. Bigger battery than everyone else in smaller body, better internals than for example htc one and way better than all lumias. Samsung made a mistake with not putting S800 in SGS4 or should have worked better on their octa SoC(its drivers need fixing). But as you can see customers do not care, 20 million sold in two months, that is fantastic.
71. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
Let's look at history here, kiddos. Picture it: Earth, pre-2010. Nokia is selling more than 100 million phones per year, and its next closest rivals are NOWHERE close to that. However, like all leaders, sometimes there is a fall from grace as things go unchanged, and plans set in motion tests before bear fruit, but the plans made to succeed the now-met goals don't match the reality of the changing world situation. A change is needed, a drastic one, and while using an in-house OS has worked for years, and another company is doing well with their own, it will be too expensive and waste too much time to bring it to market, and.even then success is not guaranteed, nor is support from developers. Enter a few candidate alternatives: First choice: go with the OS that has recently become mainstream and has good growth potential, it is highly unpolished, somewhat chaotic, and, excepting developer support in North America - the then-biggest market for cell phones - has a worse customer and corporate experience than the existing OS the company uses, especially as it needs expensive cutt.ing-edge components to operate even somewhat well, and is also the subject of several lawsuits, costs royalty money to avoid more lawsuits, and the OS company cannot or will not help the world's biggest handset maker with the conversion. Second choice: continue developing own in-house OS, which has some great features, but little development support, few standout features, and has been so grossly mismanaged it is almost an embarrassment. Third choice: jump on the bandwagon with a few other OEMs who are developing a near new OS, but won't have true smartphone capability until at least halfway through the decade, if then. Fourth option: work with the biggest name in computers and software to have their new, tested, and very modern OS as the future of the company's smartphones, while receiving billions in dollars in assistance to help during the conversion, and lots of development support, as well as the freedom and power too help make future OS versions even better and live up to the handset manufacturer's legendary reputation. Fifth option: gradually sell off handset business, and subsist as just a patent-rich R&D lab, selling licenses for all shareable technology, while leaving the largest and most loyal mobile customer base to go with a less-satisfying competitor, while diluting and decreasing the quality of devices worldwide. Along with all the options comes the burden of paring down a bloated bureaucracy and clearing out excess positions and wasteful departments and employees to minimize spending as much as possible.
I know which I would choose.
76. Whateverman (Posts: 3250; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Would that be the path of least resistance? Because that's not what Nokia did, and they're paying for it right now. Two OSs would have been the best option but hey, it's M$'s company to ruin now, or it will be soon.
93. MartyK (Posts: 755; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
You're wasting your time trying to explain to the Elopans, they, (like their leader Elop) can't see the writting on the wall--
Like a old song goes...Another one bites the dust.
The fat lady is singing.
Turn off the lights their party is over.
Dead company wobbling/walking.
75. Whateverman (Posts: 3250; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Exactly! Numbers don't lie, and 20 MILLION is a pretty big number, no matter what was expected. And that's just the first two months. All I'm saying is I know, that YOU know, the GS4 was nowhere near being a "flop". No one was impressed by the Lumia 928, 925, iPhone 4S or 5, but that doesn't make them flops does it?
And remember... The numbers don't lie.
78. papss (unregistered)
Numbers don't lie but when your that large a company your cost is also thru the roof to maintain so its still isn't good for SS. There are more variables than just sold phones
83. Whateverman (Posts: 3250; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Oh, I'm not defending the fact that their stock has dropped. The guy said the GS4 was a flop... In what world is that true. Even the experts, disappointed as they may be, still say is the best phone on the market right now, arguably the second best. Who is calling it a flop other then this guy?
85. papss (unregistered)
Agreed its no flop in the sales department but his comments while ridiculous are no worse than have the nonsense I here from some others.
Lots of variables with such a large company.
94. Heritor (Posts: 47; Member since: 05 Nov 2012)
Are you a moron? With all of the phones and momentum that Samsung had before the Lumia line was even launched do you even think that Samsung reaching 20 million is a big deal?
Thats like saying "HEY GUYS TOYOTA JUST SOLD A TON OF CARS WHILE BMW SOLD LESS!!". Look at the iPhone sales.... mind share and current market share makes for good sales numbers.
Please take a business class before you talk about stuff you have ZERO clue about.
96. Whateverman (Posts: 3250; Member since: 17 May 2009)
And you must be stupid if you can't see what I'm talking about. The guy said the phone is a flop! According to the dictionary, a flop is described as an "ungainly movement". Now, has there been no movement with the release of the Galaxy S4 or have the sold a whole effing lot of them? No one else is selling 10 million phones a month, so to call the best selling device today a flop is just silly, so why are you following him down that rabbit whole? You guys can make this a Samsung vs Nokia fight if you want, but don't put words in my mouth
Second, keep the name calling to a minimum. You respect me, and I return the favor. But I'm wont entertain childish name calling and insults. Ask around, I'm a decent guy to debate with, but let's keep it about the phones.
98. papss (unregistered)
Agree.. These new guys come in and act like this is a troll infested site that they can talk like that.
47. SleepingOz (unregistered)
20millions in just 2months, is now considered as "flop"?
Wow, I bet nokia can do better, right?
49. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)
Nokia can only dream now of those figures
Because billion(android and ios) people cant be wrong as compared to 10000(lumia users) :D
50. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)
Samsung stock dropped 25 BILLION, not million - get your numbers right!
52. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)
Still on top like a King
And will post q2 profit much more than last year q2 2012
Nokia not even on top 5 in smartphone list
91. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
Well that's what happens when you rely and use Snapdragon chips. Fans were hoping for the Exynos CPU, but Samsung used Snapdragon. So they could not achieve there goals! S600 SOC is used commonly everywhere! A9 Cortex is old and outdated. Consumers and fans were hoping wishing for the A15 SOC!
Big little by Arm was OK, if Samsung only clocked it at 1.8Ghz then there would've been no lag. Or just went straight for 4 A15s with a bigger battery. But no! How stupid of Samsung....
60. WHoyton1 (Posts: 1635; Member since: 21 Feb 2013)
Yeh its sure a big flop to be the fastest selling smartphone.....stay on topic idiot
67. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)
Nokia not even in top 5 in smartphione list :D
79. papss (unregistered)
So you don't have an intelligent comment so you once again resort to name calling? Classy
84. Eonnaydra (Posts: 217; Member since: 23 Oct 2012)
iPhone 5 is the fastest selling smarthphone.
5 millions units sold in 2 days.Now are over 100 millions of iPhone 5 sold with Q3 2013.
70. fsnas (Posts: 102; Member since: 18 Jun 2012)
you always look at the empty half of the cup.
Nokia was already drowning, everybody were losing their job.
maybe some of them lost their jobes but Steven saved the rest!
you have to do sacrifices in life and if you can't, you can't be a CEO!
99. akki20892 (Posts: 3900; Member since: 04 Feb 2013)
how many times i have to tell you guys that i can't read that much comments......oh god.
30. roscuthiii (Posts: 2150; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)
Possibly he's railroading the company so that MS can buy it on the cheap.
Conspiracy theory material for sure, but it's not like shadier things haven't transpired in the business world.
6. duwiegeneral (Posts: 48; Member since: 07 Dec 2012)
it take an educated fool to design a bike bt it take a genius to discover fire so nt bcuz some fool who sit in a office all day a study maths 1 and 1 is is 2 nt must b rite bcuz 1 and 1 can b call 11 str888 yard man point no offence...
17. Whateverman (Posts: 3250; Member since: 17 May 2009)
NO offense? We don't even know if what you're speaking is English! No one is offended, we're all confused. No offense.
55. duwiegeneral (Posts: 48; Member since: 07 Dec 2012)
and you suppose to be mega troll gay wife who's just simply backing her husband statement??
86. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
Yea what kind of english is that?
Raago or bad boy english that makes no sense.
I believe its called ragga muffin english.
7. GoBears (Posts: 448; Member since: 27 Apr 2012)
Nokia using WP exclusively is going to bury them. I'm not saying they should be exclusively Android but they should at least make an Android handset or two and get in on the major carriers asap.