Nokia sales head quits
0. phoneArena 19 Apr 2012, 06:32 posted on
Colin Giles, Nokia’s executive vice president of sales and member of the company’s Nokia Leadership Team has stepped down after 20 years of being with Nokia…
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. bloodline (Posts: 706; Member since: 01 Dec 2011)
Nokia looks like its heading forward onto a record breaking year.
5. hepresearch (unregistered)
Yes... on to the lowest stock valuation in 20 years...
2. fervid (Posts: 183; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)
It's always so "mean" when people leave to spend time with family...
6. hepresearch (unregistered)
... and yet so incredibly convenient.
4. hepresearch (unregistered)
Largely, customers abandoned ship last year. The executive cheerleading "rats" are always the last ones to abandon the sinking ship, as the more staunch share-holders always end up going down with it...
7. andro. (Posts: 1994; Member since: 16 Sep 2011)
Signs of those abandoning ship.windows os will be the final nail in the nokia smartphone industry,they really only have themselves to blame in essence for picking the os in the first place unfortunately
8. ron1niro (Posts: 54; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
Quite interesting to see a bunch of guys who just recently started using smartphones say that they are smarter than the entire executive of a company that makes smartphones! Get a life. You think nokia will fail just because you said so? Or because you use android or ios, then you think everyone should use them?
12. hepresearch (unregistered)
I've been using smartphones since before it was "cool". I started with the Nokia 9300 (epically awesome), the Nokia 6620 (amazingly versatile for its day), and the HTC Dash (decent at first, then became garbage), and have gone from there. Most recently had the Nokia E75, also a great device, best spec'd I've ever owned. I never owned an Android or an iPhone.
I am simply calling it as I see it. It is a shame to have to watch it all happen this way, and I know where it is going. It has become obvious, and as much as my fellow Nokia fans have tried to inspire more hope, and I have often been caught up in that hope, I still remember how this all happened. So many see this as, "Oops... just another moment of epically bad news." I don't buy it. What I am watching is the gradual but planned execution of the deconstruction of Nokia Corporation... sell off and divest the most successful parts, and slowly, sneakily kill off the parts that can be killed of with bad news (plus extra-negative spin... as in Elop saying how "disappointed" he is with Nokia sales) and intentional mis-management (i.e. such as the heavy investment in and development of MeeGo just to announce its immediate death upon release), piece by piece, until the market cap is low enough to sell it all off to someone... like, for instance, Microsoft! It looks like accidental stupidity to the worst degree on the surface, but I don't believe these folks are stupid... they are executing an orchestrated plan to intentionally destroy a corporation for the purpose of getting gain for whoever is now paying them, and probably promising them their "cut", a "golden parachute" at the end for each of them, no doubt.
We already know who loses... loyal share-holders and loyal customers. This is the orchestrated theft of "the little people" by a few higher-ups somewhere. The real question is... other than the paid tools (a.k.a. the executive officers and board members who are being paid to stay silent on the truth, keep cheering for Team Nokia as it slips beneath the waves, and go along with this), who really actually gains from this? That is the question I have not yet heard a legitimate answer to, and which still needs a REAL answer.
21. ZEUS.the.thunder.god (unregistered)
i am an android who used be nokia fan. but i still love nokia. they produced some of most amazing devices. they are in decline but atleast not corrupt like apple. its better to decline with dignity than to rise with all the evil and corrupt means.
but i still wish `em to get back on track as they deserve it and competition is always good for everybody.
+1 for you sir.
23. downphoenix (Posts: 2979; Member since: 19 Jun 2010)
I think this is 100% accurate. Nokia is being broke down by some big wigs that are getting financial benefit from microsoft, or otherwise benefit from their downfall.
RIM on the other hand, I doubt that's the case, I think they truly are fighting to keep their company alive, only time will tell if they can make it or were too late to act.
9. 7thspaceman (Posts: 1408; Member since: 14 Feb 2011)
by mid 2013 we will know if Nokia survives or not. Folks I think That the Nokia 900 is not their 2012 Flag Ship smart phone The Coming New Nokia Windows 8 smart phone is and is coming out with a dual core CPU, High def screen, NFC and a Pure Vue Camera. A lot of People are holding back buying any Windows smart phone because they know ones that will at last have all the high-tech in them to compete with any Apple Iphone or Android smart phones are coming out later this year. I think the Nokia Lumia 900 will drop in price and get software upgrades and be sold as a cheap LTE smart phone. guess what People will still buy it because it will cost 100 dollars cheaper than the high tech smart phones but still well enough to be worth buying as a cheap fast smart phone.
15. hepresearch (unregistered)
Nokia will be a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft before the end of 2012. Selling their phones for cheap may attract more customers, but below a certain point popularity simply brings so little cash flow to be worth it. If I could buy, or self-assemble/produce, a million toothbrushes for a quarter apiece, and then turn around and sell all million of them in a day because I price them at a dime apiece, then I'm just hemorrhaging cash all over the place despite how amazingly popular I made them to be by underpricing and overdelivering. There is a point at which it is foolish to do the popular thing.
22. ZEUS.the.thunder.god (unregistered)
i have to disagree with you. they are in a better position than RIM. and there is no reason that they cant make a comeback.
26. hepresearch (unregistered)
I suppose it is possible, but from where I am it looks to me as though RIM may level out soon... that is, if they can make BB10 well enough to keep government and corporate clients locked into the BES model. So far only Dell has supplied a device (and an older one at that) running Android which has been approved for federal government/military use. Otherwise, RIM still rules the 3DES/AES mobile device security roost.
The bigger problem for Nokia is that I fear they will find a way to bring it further down, artificially, and keep it down long enough to make it a cheap acquisition/take-over.
10. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
He only now wants to spend more time with his family? I wonder if his family would be as important to him if Noka were moving 20 million handsets/quarter?
14. hepresearch (unregistered)
He's being paid very well for his statement on his family suddenly being so much more important to him...
11. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
Today I was trying out Lumia 800, simultaneously with HTC One X, and I must admit - Nokia is much better phone. It's just perfectly designed. However, I could say it's overdesigned, so most people won't get it. Add closed operating system policy and slow adaptation to standards and there you go... goodbye Nokia! Everyone knew that except decision-makers working for Nokia...
13. hepresearch (unregistered)
I'll bet the decision-makers at Nokia know, too. What better way to accomplish their goals than to pour loads of R&D into something that is immaculately designed, sold on the super-cheap for the high cost to produce such a premium product, but fatally flawed on software style and policies so that it cannot become popular enough in time to save them? Bleed Nokia dry, and make sure the transfusion is too late and too slow to keep them alive...
17. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
Your conspiracy theory is plausible, however there is still something that confuses me.
The effort invested in Lumia range is so high that it really makes no sense to produce it if it's not intended for gaining the leadership on market... they could do it without actual investment into quality...
18. hepresearch (unregistered)
Yet, if the plan is to bleed Nokia dry, then this is still a perfect way to do it. You cause them to invest all this effort into making a product that is fantastically high-quality, make sure its popularity is poorly managed and marketing lags, and then make as few as possible so that you spend little on production of actual devices. Thus, the waste is largely confined to R&D and management (who still get paid either way), and the devices are sold as close to break-even as possible to slow down revenue. As a result, the value of stock goes down, rather than losing all the cash reserves, on the poor sales figures (which then get amplified by executives blaming the corporation itself for underperforming), and as market cap plunges, the cash reserves remain to be divided up later as spoils of corporate warfare. Perhaps the target is only to bleed Nokia to some pre-set market cap, like below $14 billion, so that they become a very easy acquisition target for a certain someone... then, as soon as the deal is complete, "new leadership" redirects everything onto a much more sustainable path.
It fits if the sales are really as low as have been said (below 2 million Lumia units, and down to 600,000 total units in the NAM in Q1), prices are still at rock-bottom (especially when the C7 "Astound" and Lumia 710 are free at T-Mobile USA and the Lumia 900 sells for $100-or-more less than a hardware-equivalent Android device at AT&T and elsewhere), and yet you still remember hearing about the shortages at Nokia.com, AT&T, and other retailers... they had to run a $1.2 billion loss to get there, but they have bled themselves down by another 20% since last month, and by almost 75% since February last year, when they were already slumping in the market...
Every time things start to get better, and stock starts to recover, Elop makes sure to have some grand announcement about how "Nokia is STILL in transition", and announces some bad numbers and bad news, or cancels another R&D project or parts-out another potentially-growing division of the company, to throw them under the bus all over again...
25. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
Strictly economic calculus is beyond my comprehension, but I'll take your word for it, however I'm also staying at possibility that it could be explained the other way...
In general, I think the global strategies are above&beyond interests of single company so your theory could be correct.
That's why the shockingly linear Apple growth looks to me also as a conspiracy of others...
27. hepresearch (unregistered)
Agreed on Apple, for sure. I feel that Nokia is a similar project, probably of the same group of folks, but just being manufactured to lose, rather than to win like Apple has been.
16. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
It really sounds as if it's conspiracy.
19. Zorin (Posts: 152; Member since: 26 Jul 2010)
As he says goodbye, his droid phone rings....DORRRRRRRRRRK
20. ron1niro (Posts: 54; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
The conspiracy theory is pathetic, so if microsft buys nokia, then what will it do? You are contradicting yourself! If microsoft's plan is to buy nokia, which is not the case, then still nokia wins because microsoft will try as much as they can to make it better! I wonder how much time you spent thinking about this! Don't you have other things to do?
24. hepresearch (unregistered)
Why would a conspiracy theory be so "pathetic"? Are you going to tell me that it is because of Occam's Razor, like all the other blind anti-conspiracy establishment-conformists enjoy throwing around without understanding, or some other motivation which you have taken completely out of context? Where have I "contradicted" myself? Why does Microsoft need to still "try as much as they can to make [Nokia] better", or can they not just do this to cannibalize Nokia's corporate remains and intellectual property and give the leftover cash to their executives as a huge early bonus? So many people seem to think that this kind of thing happens for the good of consumers everywhere, and no other real reason, and then just get on the cheerleading bandwagon... I have plenty of other things to do, but I accomplish tasks fast enough to still have time to spend here, which I do, as a matter of fact, enjoy. I like a good debate once in a while, because every so often I hear something that strikes me as a better way of looking at things, or as simply a fresh and interesting perspective.
One other thing... this post was meant as a response to comment #20... but somehow I typed it in its own comment box, rather than a reply box... oh well, I guess I didn't spend enough time thinking about it, apparently...
28. ron1niro (Posts: 54; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
The thing is, your theory over simplifies business! Nokia's smartphone sales were low before their partnership with MS, the company was mostly surviving on feature phone sales, symbian could be made better but already had a bad reputation with modern smartphone users, meego was totally unheard of and only people who frequently visit forums such as this one know about it, android was flooded with all kinds of phones from cheap plastic rubbish to good ones.Nokia couldn't be innovative with android, you just increase things like the number of cores, the screen resolution but no real innovation. Nokia needed a platform for it's smartphones and microsoft needed a torchbearer to advertise it's product! A marriage occurred and microsoft even decided to help nokia financially for the beginning rough months! We have started to see the first fruits of that marriage, windows phone is getting publicity like never before! Lumia phones have topped the bestselling charts not only in Europe but also in America, though they may not sell 10 million like gs2 but they will get there! The only conspiracy i can see is Nokia trying to reclaim it's throne and microsoft trying to dominate the technology world from PC, to tablet, to gaming and phones!
29. hepresearch (unregistered)
As much as I enjoy the occassional complex analysis problem, it is still a proven fact that truth, more often than not, boils down to simplicity and elegance. Thus, it is generally impossible to oversimplify... "oversimplification" is merely a dirty-sounding word, meaning that one has substituted certain applicable variables with currently-relevant constants in order to isolate a particular short-term behavior in only one or two variables of particular interest. This is not a problem... in fact, it may well be the only way to start figuring out a quantitative solution, instead of relying on the qualitative guessing of "experts", which in the end is little more than making an educated guess without using measurable data... projecting much future behavior by judging from a small subset of only the most recent and memorable past big-picture behavior alone.
One cannot begin to attempt to precisely solve how things actually work without starting with an oversimplification here or there... it is simply impossible to see the most fundamental actions within a small subset of anything while "trying to take in the entire painting", so to speak. It would tell you, qualitatively, where everything ended up to some degree, but would tell you absolutely nothing about how it got there quantitatively, or where it may go next.
Your issue is that you try to take in the entire picture of what has happened, all at once, without any regard for a precise action, and in doing so you disregard the subtle signs that tell so much more about the current state of what is happening and changing at this moment NOW.
That said, remember that until nearly May or June of last year, Nokia was still selling more smartphones (all Symbian) worldwide than any other OEM could sell of any other OS type. It wasn't even until December 2010/January 2011 or so that Android on the whole, from ALL other OEM's combined, caught up to Symbian device sales worldwide. Until 2011, Nokia held the world's title of most prolific provider of smart mobile devices, and had done so since early the decade before. The rest of the world will need to keep making as many devices in total as they make now for the next three years, even if Nokia ceased to sell devices today, in order to catch up to the number of devices that Nokia has sold worldwide in its mobile device history.
31. GENARAL.LEVY (banned) (Posts: 93; Member since: 17 Apr 2012)
Stephen eflop needs to be kicked out.
The public should also switch on him useless skm....
32. hepresearch (unregistered)
If I got into some money, I might be tempted to go out and buy an old Nokia N75 and maybe even a Nokia N95 just so I can have the classics from back in the glory days...