Nokia has only sold 330,000 Lumia devices in the US
0. phoneArena 13 Jul 2012, 14:29 posted on
Judging by recent Nielsen and comScore numbers, it appears that Nokia has not even hit the half million mark with sales of their US Lumia models, suggesting US sales are not as rosy as have been implied...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
36. jroc74 (Posts: 5192; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
"Nokia executives boldly referred to the Lumia line as the first “real” Windows Phone devices"
Ouch indeed. Good ole Elop..... Think it was a good idea to basically say all the other manufactures of WP suck? How many times is he gonna put his foot in his mouth?
And ppl worry about Google alienating Android manufactures with their Motorola deal....
43. MISTER_H (banned) (Posts: 97; Member since: 08 Jul 2012)
Hahaha good news Windows-phone's didn't sell that well....
Restricted. Low speced, messed up phone!
54. TheRetroReplay (Posts: 245; Member since: 20 Mar 2012)
The sad thing is, I really like the Lumia 900, I'm just on Verizon. And they won't be getting any WP devices until they have LTE in them. WP is a really good mobile OS and Nokia isn't even taking it seriously.
61. dickwyn (Posts: 601; Member since: 07 May 2012)
It either everybody is biased against WP or everybody is patiently waiting for WP8 like me
83. MoonlitTear (Posts: 36; Member since: 09 Jun 2008)
Waiting for WP8. I have HTC Radar now, and I like the OS. Upgrade coming up and I will patiently wait...
86. -box- (Posts: 3913; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
"Update: Nielsen has contacted us to make it clear they do not support multiplying their numbers with Comscore numbers, saying they measure subtly different elements of the phone market. While the math appear reasonable they therefore do not feel the 300,000 number is accurate."
Please update article.
87. whothisperson (Posts: 102; Member since: 06 May 2012)
Even if they doubled that number, still not good enough to compete
2. Penny (Posts: 1299; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
Let me just say preemptively that these are obviously disappointing numbers, but please don't feel it necessary to jump with joy and say "there, told ya Windows Phone wouldn't last!"
Remember, we are all in this together, and if Windows Phone does not succeed in the long run, it just makes it that much easier for the current competitors to get away with less innovation and still control the market.
10. Scott_H (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Oct 2011)
I certainly agree that more competition benefits consumers. And I think most reviewers agree that Windows Phone is a better OS than the sales numbers alone would suggest. But it's also important to realize just how far in the hole they are at this point if we are to accurately decipher current and upcoming moves by Microsoft, Nokia, and other related parties.
22. Penny (Posts: 1299; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
I completely agree Scott. I fully acknowledge that these numbers are deeply disappointing, and the worse the numbers get, the more tenuous the strategy appears to get for both Microsoft and Nokia.
I've just seen too many readers that don't seem to understand that bad news for your competitors can be bad news for you as well. The message I was trying to convey is that you should not be acting like you just won a championship if you are a fan of another company. You're cheering on something that has a negative impact on you.
38. Scott_H (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Oct 2011)
I'm sure Microsoft can afford to go another round or three in an attempt to find traction (they have little choice in the long run), but I do think that anything less than an overwhelming success with WP8 might force Nokia's hand. What that would mean I don't know, whether that leads to a strategy shift, a sale of their hardware division to Microsoft, or whatever - but surely as a company they can't continue down this path indefinitely without a larger slice of the pie.
But ultimately having BB10 AND WP8 compete effectively would be good for consumers.
46. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5975; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
I am not sure that Nokia can afford to go another round on WP (even WP8) with sales results on the order of 300K/quarter. This is starting to look like the Palm experience all over again. The only difference is that Nokia started from a higher market share.
47. steelicon (Posts: 313; Member since: 02 Apr 2011)
Negative impact on the "CURRENT" strategy, which is to KILL OFF internal and external competition.
Internal refers to in house mobile OS such as Symbian, MeeGo and Meltemi, which were needlessly EOL'd by Elop @ Co.
External, well you get the idea.
We cheer on only for karma and for heads to roll.
50. Whodaboss (Posts: 176; Member since: 18 Nov 2011)
I don't believe in these numbers whatsoever. Simply put, I think they are bogus. Made up. Fake. Inaccurate. partial at best.
How can this be? Every store was running out of devices... weren't they? I'll have to wait until the official quarter numbers comes out until I believe this.
57. Scott_H (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Oct 2011)
I actually looked this up while writing it - the only reports of stores selling out come from AT&T almost immediately after launch (and even that was a qualified "many stores are selling out, although mostly in cyan" statement).
After that everyone clammed up.
65. akita256 (Posts: 80; Member since: 26 Jan 2012)
That's why I never believed the numbers that AT&T was announcing in the beginning. I never thought they were actually selling out. THOSE were the numbers that were made up.
91. Whodaboss (Posts: 176; Member since: 18 Nov 2011)
Well, even with the thumbs down. I'm glad to see I was vindicated. There were 600K Lumia's sold and 330K were Lumia 900s. Like I stated before I had a feeling your previous reported numbers were under reported. Yes, inaccurate and partial at best. That's all.
92. stylinred (Posts: 50; Member since: 03 Mar 2012)
you're wrong whodaboss.... they sold 600k devices in North America... including Symbian and S30phones... Symbian sales took 0.5% of the phones sold in NA during Q2 and Lumias sold 0.65%, I don't know what S30 sold as I couldn't find any reports listing (never is for featurephones)
So I don't know where you made your numbers up but learn to read...
60. steelicon (Posts: 313; Member since: 02 Apr 2011)
When Windows Phone 8 fails, they will kick out CEO Stephen Elop. When the share price falls, then Jolla Mobile and Co. can buy off NOKIA for a takeover.
Facts are stranger than fiction. Who knows what may happen.
12. smallworld (Posts: 446; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
Pleease DON'T constently bring the innovation argument on the table! Android and iOs didn't wait for wp to come up with new ideas. You'd better face the fact that wp(8) didn't bring anything new (don't mention metro please). Android and iOs will pursue their merry way with or WITHOUT wp. Don't dislike because it's the only truth. Microsoft (and Nokia) will have to find something radically different. I can't see wp gain 10% market share in the two next years. (FYI: i'm not a troll)
17. Contreramanjaro (Posts: 153; Member since: 04 Dec 2011)
While they have not brought much technical advancement, Microsoft focused on the user experience over features and this is something that I really felt Android and iOS lacked. When using both of those, and yes, I've used both extensively, I always felt like there were too many steps to get from point a to point b. Windows Phone always felt smooth and easy and this is something I miss from cell phones recently. They are so focused on having the biggest screen, best specs, and most abilities that they forget to keep the things I use my phone for the most in perspective, text and calls.
And I'm mentioning Metro because that is the driving force behind the phone and having a consistant theme across the phone and it's apps. Much more than a home screen. Right now iOS and Android are stronger but this sort of random quality and variable user experience makes me want Windows Phone to succeed, or at least its design approach to succeed.
Just a note, I'm currently using Android because I'm unsatisfied by the current Windows Phone offerings. I just think it's unfair to claim it has brought nothing to the table in innovation.
18. smallworld (Posts: 446; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
I think you're a bit wrong but I see your point. WP suffers from terrible lacks. A LOT of essential feature are missing. A fancy and smooth ui doesn't make all the magic. You should read the article on PA with a list of 101 reason not to buy a wp (althought some are wrong). This is what make impossible for me to own a wp, not to mention the utterly terrible marketplace.
19. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5975; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
And this is but two examples of dogs not liking the WP dog food....
29. Contreramanjaro (Posts: 153; Member since: 04 Dec 2011)
I read that awful article about the 101 things wrong with WP. I really don't have that many problems with the things WP lacks. Speaking of terrible, I have been nothing but disappointed in the app selection in Android. There are lots of apps but so many of them are worthless and end up putting ads in my notification bar. As far as "terrible marketplace," I'm not sure if you mean selection or the experience because to me the experience has been rather nice. The lacking apps is an issue that will solve with a better user base and not until before that.
Have you tried a Windows Phone though? I really didn't care about the OS until I gave it a shot. I think it's one of those things you just need to try for yourself. Everyone I've gotten to try it out seems to prefer it or at least like it, or they lie straight to my face.
Honestly though, there aren't that many features missing. I can make a 101 things wrong with any OS list but I wouldn't waste my time because it's a silly way to get a point across and leads to some rather generous stretches. Try before you buy. There are a ton of opportunities to do so.
49. Forsaken77 (Posts: 552; Member since: 09 Jun 2011)
I agree with your point of view completely. I, myself, use Android because the hardware is 4x's more advanced than WP offerings. If the Lumia was the first "real WP" than they're offering up an Android phone from 2 years ago. I want WP to succeed as well but it should not take Microsoft this long to add the same features their competitors had for years now. Microsoft is, and has always been, a software company. This is their turf and they're being beaten badly even with the home field advantage. WP8 is a giant step in the right direction, but still, they're adding features Android had in 2011. If the hardware was on equal ground and was capable of the same things as Android phones, I'd go WP all day just because the UI is so much smoother. I'm completely fed up with the fragmentation of Android and the ridiculous delays in updating their phones, carriers fault or not. Once WP becomes a viable option I'm jumping ship.
23. Penny (Posts: 1299; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
My point wasn't about innovation. It was about business strategy. If you are a business operating in a market with fierce competition, you are doing everything you can to rise above your competition. If you are a business operating in a market in which you have dominance, your best strategic decision is to continue innovating at the same pace, but release those innovations to the public at a slower pace. That both gives you both better short term profit (more income for each R&D expense) and better long term profit (more sales for future products due to ongoing, paced growth).
And I'm not going to touch on what I think WP7 and WP8 bring to the table, because that was partially covered by one of the other comments, and because you obviously don't believe that bringing a different user experience is a worthwhile innovation. The fact is, when one company bests the user experience of its competitors, the other competitors will compete in that arena as well. I do not believe Android was making as significant leaps in user experience between releases previously as it is now (think ICS, Jelly Bean).
16. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5975; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
If the dogs don't like the dog food, sales of the dog food will disappoint. It is real simple. It doesn't look like dogs like the WP dog food. Ergo, the WP dog food doesn't sell.
24. Penny (Posts: 1299; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
I'm not sure why you seem to be so fascinated today by dogs Doug, but I was not addressing the factors for the poor sales at all. Therefore, I find it rather obnoxious of you to present your "real simple" argument to me as if I did not understand the correlation between lack of interest and lack of sales.
In simpler terms, grow up.
34. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5975; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Gee, Penny - a bit defensive today, eh?
35. Joshing4fun (Posts: 1060; Member since: 13 Aug 2010)
Penny is probably just annoyed by how you always post the same comment whenever windows phone sales is the topic. And its not even your reference; you got it from an article.
37. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5975; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Josh, Penny has been a pretty reliable apologist for WP's under-performance. Sauce for the goose apparently isn't sauce for the gander when it comes to calling out WP's sales results.
45. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5975; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Further Josh, if you are cyber-tracking me, which article did I get the reference to dogs not liking dog food from? A link would be very helpful.
55. Penny (Posts: 1299; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
Doug, I support WP because I like it, not because I am blind to the facts. I've repeatedly stated throughout my comments on this article that these sales numbers are horrible results and put Microsoft and Nokia's strategies in a more tenuous position. The lack of sales still does not change my opinion of the product itself, because my opinion of the product is based on different factors.
As for being an apologist -- I can pretty confidently say that I have always supported my opinions with logical reasoning. I don't make excuses for companies that I like, nor do you ever see me make claims like "WP8 is going to gain 50% market share in two years!" There are those fans of every company that will make those claims, but I leave it to them to do so.
And I supposed you are correct to call me out for being a little defensive today. But, again, I wasn't being defensive of or ignoring the poor sales results. I was being defensive against the prophetic claims that I knew were going to come from fans of other companies, such as yourself. Hyperbolic claims that Microsoft and WP will come crashing down every time there is a bump in the road.
At the same time that you call me a WP apologist, you don't see me on Android, BB, iOS, or any other articles talking about anything but my objective opinion of the situation -- which more often than not is positive. I was just hoping that more people here had the same intentions.
Unfortunately, my hope for that kind of meaningful conversation on these types of forums has dwindled. There are only a handful of individuals on these PA forums that I consider to be legitimately objective. While I appreciate the fact that you are thoughtful in your comments, I don't think you usually display much of an ability to set your personal agendas aside when engaging in these discussions. I am not trying to knock you for this; it is human nature, and you are still better than most of the fans I see. But the point is, if you are wondering why I am so defensive today -- the answer is that I am simply losing interest in putting in more effort with most users here.
58. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5975; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Penny, I appreciate you taking the time to compose your response. You put time into a thoughtful and respectful response and I appreciate your effort. The challenge in commenting on articles and posts made regarding articles is to provide insight and appreciation into the issue(s) raised by the article. Some times I am able to provide food for though; other times I don't succeed.
My response was not intended to be a challenge or an attack. If it appeared to be such to you, please accept my sincere apologies, as it was not meant to be. Yes, many of my responses can be presumed to be biased, but then my identity (Droid_X_Doug) should indicate that. :-)
59. Sniggly (Posts: 7199; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
This is a fair statement to make. We all have our bad days on here. Some days it seems that nothing but s**tty news comes in for Android, some days things are awesome for Android but not for iOS. Some days there's some good news for WP, and Blackberry is just perenially s**tty.
I personally would like to give WP more of a chance to grow on me, but Microsoft's arrogance and its insistence on attacking Android for things like slow updates and malware have kind of turned me off to it.
That, and if I went to Windows Phone I couldn't dream of punching Ballmer in the f**king face anymore. :D
70. Penny (Posts: 1299; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
There is no need to apologize. You are free to express your opinions on these boards and I did not take anything you said personally. I also did not mean to direct my statements directly at you, but rather was referring to my frustration with the way fans of any company don't seem to put forth an effort to be objective on these forums in general.
That is fair enough as well. Although I believe Microsoft attacking Android to increase the value of its own product is just a marketing strategy, it can be a polarizing one that pushes people away. And I guess there's no substitute for wanting to punch Ballmer in the face, lol.
3. kunyuk (Posts: 56; Member since: 29 Jun 2012)
Great job Elop!!! Great job!!!!
Fire that fag CEO
8. TheRetroReplay (Posts: 245; Member since: 20 Mar 2012)
I don't think it matters if it was Elop or not, Nokia was going to go down the tubes because of a refusal to adapt to the current market. If not Elop, they would look for a CEO with a stubborn refusal to change and agrees with their viewpoints. They could of gotten a CEO that would of stuck with Symbian and would still be in the same boat they're in now.
Same thing with RIM, a refusal to adapt. Not to sound like a fanboy, but if they had adopted Android, they'd be rolling in cash like Samsung, Motorola and HTC.
69. jack1059 (Posts: 72; Member since: 31 Mar 2012)
Couldnt let this go without comment. Nokia had a transition strategy to move its app development to QT under symbian. Then transition their developers and users to Meego while slowly moving away from symbian. Elop came along, threw symbian off a cliff, canned the Meego / QT strategy and refused to sell the N9 in anything but minor markets. That despite good reviews for the phone / OS. Who in their right mind refuses to make money and recoup development costs? Then signed an exclusivity agreement with MS and said he had no back up plan. Seriously? What ceo has no back up plan? Marketshare at the start of elops tenure - 30%. Now its what 4%. Current share price - $1.80 and ranked as junk. All in the space of a year and a half So yes nokia's current predicament is directly attributed to elop.
4. marcus_lhz (Posts: 2; Member since: 26 Jun 2012)
and with the notice that will be no upgrade for wp8....the grave is ready...
5. Angkor (Posts: 108; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)
Nokia is down with Windows Phone switch to Android now or will gone next year.
6. torr310 (Posts: 489; Member since: 27 Oct 2011)
Nokia is too conservative to fire their CEO.
48. steelicon (Posts: 313; Member since: 02 Apr 2011)
They have "fired" OPK before, a FInnish Nokia CEO. They have done it once, they can do it again.
7. gallitoking (Posts: 4693; Member since: 17 May 2011)
I would have bought a N8 with Symbian or an N9 with Meego over any Lumia phones.. heard that Nokia..
32. wendygarett (unregistered)
You love meego linux based. Then why you hate android? Lol
11. ppLVR (Posts: 12; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)
These Number a obviously flawed -_- .Anybody with common sense can know those numbers are impossible.
13. ppLVR (Posts: 12; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)
3,300,000 would sound like a more believable figure (3.3million)
51. jroc74 (Posts: 5192; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
The rise of the iPhone and Android, the fall of RIM and Win Mo should tell anyone with common sense that.
14. bbblader (Posts: 584; Member since: 24 Oct 2011)
main os : android
2nd os : meego (if it gets better than android which is possible it will be 1st)
3rd test os : symbian (for new technology like the PureView)
15. ryq24 (Posts: 557; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
when nokia announce its shifting to windows, their sales plunged as everyone knows there will no longer b support for symbian. now they said their windows phone will not be upgraded to wp8 and again their sales disappoint. nokia dug themselves a big hole!
20. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
I don't know if I should believe those numbers or not, with the marketing Nokia has done and also the high satisfaction rating. Like someone else said earlier, its utterly impossible!
21. joex2 (Posts: 22; Member since: 23 Nov 2011)
"only sold 330,000 Lumia devices in the US" Lumia is only available on AT&T.
52. jroc74 (Posts: 5192; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Dont know why the thumbs down....this is right...lol. Its even in the article....
27. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
Now I'm starting to believe in those numbers. Exclusive to ATT didn't work. Poorly excuted distribution.
25. Jonathan41 (Posts: 532; Member since: 22 Mar 2012)
Personally my favorite manufacture is HTC and my favorite OS is easily Android but, I love Nokia and WP is a wonderful OS. It's visually pleasing, light on the phones memory and simple to use with a touch of customization. I believe that if Nokia/Windows simply made more powerful devices then they would attract more customers. I mean even on this site we're constantly arguing about which phone is more powerful. So it obviously matters to a majority of smartphone costumers that their phone have the best specs. on the market. The Lumia 900 is great and all but, the market standard for high-end smartphones is the iPhone and, there's no doubting that because it's the first thing we compare all smartphones to. In the case of the Lumia 900 is just doesn't stack up in the power department which is very important to a lot of customers. Also, the Windows apps store is already missing tons of popular apps that customers want but, the problem is made even worse by the fact the the WP flagship device is not even capable of running larger apps like Gameloft and Madfinger games which are very important to a reasonable big part of the smartphone community. This is especially important because, Microsoft has been known to use their Xbox Live service to try and attract customers and get them excited about the Lumia 900 but, so far there isen't much to get excited about. I've heard that Gameloft will be making some games for Windows Phone phone but, they will probably lack in comparison to what the games play like on Android and iOS. Personally, I don't think I would seriously consider buying a Nokia/WP until they step up the spec. sheet and I don't think I'm alone.
28. Pdubb (Posts: 239; Member since: 08 Aug 2011)
Meanwhile it is projected that Nokia has sold 3.8 million devices worldwide. According to another PA article.
I guess I will wait until the reports come out next week and maybe they will say for sure. It just seems strange that it was at the top of the list at tmo and amazon and for a while at&t but it was not selling well. Strange that other phones were selling below it but it only sold several hundred thousand.