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Nokia cutting closer to the bone, now sells Espoo headquarters

0. phoneArena 04 Dec 2012, 05:54 posted on

To counter mounting losses, Nokia has been slashing jobs, selling plants, and now it had to cut even closer to the bone…

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 05:57 12

1. wendygarett (unregistered)

WTF only 170mil euro?!!
Just sell Elop instead!!!

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:01 9

3. MeoCao (unregistered)

How much do you think he is worth? :))

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:28 2

6. wendygarett (unregistered)

oh no, don't underestimate our body value bro... the kidney itself can actually worth $3000 according from the previous article... Not to mentioned the brain, heart, skin etc... and the name of CEO... I'm sure he worth more than that LOL :D

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:32 12

8. tashreef (Posts: 476; Member since: 24 Nov 2012)

His brain will worth a lot....

because he never used it.....such a first hand brain...

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 08:10 3

21. MeoCao (unregistered)

LOL, this is going against science about brain like Einstein's brain is priceless because he used it a lot.

But +1 for the humor.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:54 9

34. dangchitrung (Posts: 88; Member since: 04 Apr 2012)


posted on 04 Dec 2012, 22:41

49. Nadr1212 (Posts: 741; Member since: 22 Sep 2012)

Yeah he does, unlike you

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 08:20 2

22. MeoCao (unregistered)

LOL, Your ideas sound terrifying Wendy.

+ 1 for halloween style humor

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 08:36

25. tashreef (Posts: 476; Member since: 24 Nov 2012)

It's Gangnam Style.....

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:45 9

11. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

He's worth billions of financial loss

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 17:46

47. MC1123 (Posts: 1255; Member since: 12 Nov 2012)

not even a cent!

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 05:58 7

2. darthinvader (Posts: 63; Member since: 18 Sep 2012)

Dats sad :(

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:03 2

4. MeoCao (unregistered)

I wonder how much longer Nokia will be bound to the contract with MS.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 07:03 5

15. moroninc (Posts: 193; Member since: 14 Jul 2012)

Signing with MS was the final nail in Nokia's coffin, Arrogance and naive thinking on Nokia's part .. MS don't really care.. they have their own hardware now.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 08:25 3

23. MeoCao (unregistered)

Attacking Soviet Union looked like a great idea when Hitler made it. Nokia surely thought the same about their pact with MS when they signed it

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 22:16

48. iamunknown (Posts: 20; Member since: 23 Nov 2012)

nokia should leave MS..MS is backstabber..!!

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:12 8

5. phoneghoul (Posts: 12; Member since: 01 Mar 2012)

very soon they will sell Steven Elop's body parts too.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 08:33 2

24. MeoCao (unregistered)

LOL, to get good prices Nokia should advertise like this:

"The biggest virus ever"

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:31 4

7. anupam.chopra (Posts: 17; Member since: 04 Dec 2012)

Why can't they just adopt Android and stop their losses.

A Lumnia on Android will sell much better.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:34 11

9. tashreef (Posts: 476; Member since: 24 Nov 2012)

please stop this nonsense.....Lumia on WP 8 is doing great ..this problems are because of previous losses ...

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:42 5

10. redmd (Posts: 1268; Member since: 26 Oct 2011)

the chief financial officer made it sound like it's such an achievement. and I won't be surprised if Microsoft comes out as the buyer.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:48 5

12. smallworld (Posts: 484; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)

In less than 5 years : no more Nokia.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 07:47 4

17. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

I tell you, you can make that two years..Nokia has burnt cash at a crazy pace..their average losses were close to billion dollars per last 4 quarters(!!).
Now even the supposedly good sales of Nokia 920 are just a drop of water in the desert they brought themselves into.
It's one single model that sells at a fairly small profit margin actually.
Even if it sells 5 million units in current quarter (which I really doubt anyway, given it's not even in top ten in the UK for example)..it will mean basically nothing in the light of their overall freefall.

My forecast for the Nokia's current quarter:
Smartphone sales ~ 7 million (4.5 million WP, 2.5 million Symbian), steep drop in feature phone sales, and further massive loss

By 2nd Q. of 2013., their smartphone and feature phone portfolio will be completely overrun by new Android versions and phones (windows phone 9 comes in late 2013 at best)..and the Galaxy S4 will put the last nail in the coffin.

Anyone up for a bet on this?

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 08:02 5

19. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

Baloney. Nokia could survive as a core company on its patent royalties alone. They aren't going anywhere. They saw what happened to Kodak and are taking the appropriate steps to prevent a similar fate. Not only that, they have the best R&D department for phones on the planet, and could work as developers for other companies if their own phones were unsuccessful (which they aren't and won't be)
Furthermore, selling properties is a common practice. Ford did it, and look at them now. Divesting non-core assets is a good way to streamline expenses.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:21 3

28. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

I don't think you can compare Ford and Nokia like that.
Automotive industry is a different market..a whole other ball game.
Ford only had to streamline their processes to get back in green..because their sales are basically robust enough.
They weren't really going anywhere.

With Nokia you have an unprecedented nosedive case and complete disruption of the basic business within a two year time frame.
They accumulated humongous losses despite cash injections from Microsoft and Apple (yes, Apple actually dished out $ 700 million to Nokia for royalties, two years ago).
You make it sound like Nokia is small and efficient ARM -like company while the reality is that of a massive hardware mastodon that is piling up record losses.
Do you realize how vast Nokia product lines across the world are?
Before they manage cut all that off, they will shove too much of a debt up their throat.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:36 3

30. freebee269 (Posts: 539; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)

nokia is not going anywhere. like box said, their extensive patent portfolio royalties guarrantee's that. just because a company downsizes doesnt mean they are tanking. it's actually good business. why would you keep something going that is causing you to lose money? thats bad business. the lumia line is selling so well right now also, worldwide. you may be wishful thinking that they disappear but thats all it is, wishful thinking.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 11:47 3

41. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

"The Lumia line is selling so well right now also, worldwide "..

Here's what.
I say Sony will sell more Xperias than Nokia will sell Lumias, this quarter . Also, HTC will sell more.
Wanna bet on that?

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:48 2

33. MeoCao (unregistered)

I think you are painting the future life of a patent troll for Nokia.

A strength of a company lies in its people, its culture, its creativity all of which combined makes a business model.

W/o successful hardware making Nokia will be simply a patent troll. It's not the Nokia we love and need.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 13:40

44. THEAXE (Posts: 5; Member since: 03 Jul 2012)

totally agreed brother.....
darac's prediction moreover looks like his wish.....which won't come true.....
Nokia would rise.....

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:48 3

13. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

"We don't need headquarters" ..@_@
How low can they go?

Next year will be the end of Nokia

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:42 2

32. freebee269 (Posts: 539; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)

there's a better chance that next year will be the end of you, than it is the end of nokia.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 06:56 6

14. pellacani (Posts: 1; Member since: 31 Mar 2012)

thats its a lease-back. Nokia i't not selling nothing...i'ts just a finantial operation.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 07:04

16. tashreef (Posts: 476; Member since: 24 Nov 2012)

yes that's it....

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 07:50 2

18. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

Are you having problems reading?
They SOLD their own headquarters.
The lease is now on them - they are actually using it on a loan, it's not their property anymore

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 08:06 3

20. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

Yeah, and? If they sell it for €170M and can lease it for the next few years at, say, a million per year and do so upfront, they have €160M left over to use for other stuff. Even if it's ten million per year, they get the money they need now, and would have the option of buying back the property if they wanted in the future. Worked for Ford. Heck, they even mortgaged their own logo to make sure they wouldn't need bailout money.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:32 1

29. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

That lease is closer to ten million per year I believe. If not even greater.

Anyway, I repeat that Nokia is burning cash on a record pace and from now on that turns into a debt pile at the same pace. You think some royalties are enough to pay those debts out you're not aware of the numbers that are in the game here.
This move is just a clear sign of that. Nokia is desperately trying to claw it's way out of the sinking hole, but it looks to me it's just a lost battle already.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:39

31. freebee269 (Posts: 539; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)

please show me an article or anything that backs up your "burning cash at a record pace" comment. it's obvious you know something noone else knows. sounds like you are overreacting.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:55

35. MeoCao (unregistered)

You're either ignorant or defying the truth.

Nokia loses billions dollars a quarter, that's fact.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:57

36. freebee269 (Posts: 539; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)

you saying "that's fact" doesnt make it fact. still waiting to see some actually back up to your comment. if you cant do that then you're just blowing hot air.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 10:06

37. MeoCao (unregistered)

You can find quaterly financial reports of Nokia, I don't have the link, sorry.

You can google it I guess.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 10:32 1

38. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

Here you go:


1.3 billion in red last quarter!

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 11:49 1

42. freebee269 (Posts: 539; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)

in other news...


All Lumias were sold only 2.9 million units last quarter.
Yahoo-China reported that Lumia 920 alone was ordered from Nokia up to date 2.5 million units. And Lumia 920 still sells out
in most of the countries launched. Lumia 920 and 820 also support Arabic now, which meas WP8 phones will arrive to more markets.
In addition, China Mobile (the world´s biggest carrier with about 660 million subscribers) is selling Lumia 920T soon, starting December!

Nokia´s current 3.6 billion euros net cash should be enough for Nokia´s transitional period before WP8 phones take off.
Nokia is also getting more cash from convertible bonds and selling its headquarters and other non-core assets.

NAVTEQ´s price not included (Nokia bought NAVTEQ with 5.7 billion euro). All in all, even in this case, Nokia share price would be at least over 2.50 euro, excluded NAVTEQ! And Nokia´s net cash is now 3.6 billion euros. In other words, the sum of parts of Nokia and net cash are worth much more than its market cap now, which means NOK share is right now heavily undervalued! even Strategy Analytics analyst Neil Mawston, who thinks Nokia will sell 5 million Lumia devices this quarter, said, "There is clearly strong demand among European consumers for 4G phones." (which was a shot to iphone 5 since iphone 5 has limited LTE worldwide.)

so no. nokia is going nowhere. sorry to burst your bubble.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 12:17

43. MeoCao (unregistered)

Those reports mean nothing, we heard a lot of noise about L900 too but it did not materialize in actual sales.

I really hope Nokia do well but I have to see it to believe it.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 14:52 1

45. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

You are having trouble to grasp basic numbers then.
FIVE MILLION LUMIA PHONES IS NOTHING in the light of the situation Nokia is in ..

Even if Nokia sells ten millions, that wouldn't do much in terms of continuous loss, revenue fall and losing market share.

Now look three quarters ahead and tell me they can stay competitive against Android onslaught.. the problem is, they can't change much in the software part..they are completely in the hands of Microsoft regarding that.
And they will be lucky if new OS release lands before 2014!

So to summon up, next quarter will show a bump in Lumia sales, but will still be deeply in red.
After that, it will just go downhill again and this time Nokia just won't have enough leverage left to survive.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 08:36

26. MeoCao (unregistered)

Sure Nokia loses nothing but face

This highlights what position Nokia is in.

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 09:17 1

27. rabih_z (Posts: 45; Member since: 02 Nov 2012)

Nokia should succeed within 2013 or its doomsday... & to do that:
1. windows has to some more effort (app store)
2. attack current products with low market share or take RIM's market share completely.
3. faster products availability & especially after announcements.
4. decrease their prices by 10% to 15%

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 11:22 3

39. Loubielou (Posts: 508; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)

Mr Elop Plan with Microsoft is getting Closer to be Completed,as All Mr Elop is doing is Downgrading Nokia to the Lowest Value then is Old Employees Microsoft step in an Overtake or Save Nokia,as Microsoft wants to get the Portfolio boosted as they are Miles Behind Apple,this Plan is Clear to be seen for Ages,an how as Nokia given in to Mr Elop is totally wrong as he know nothing about phones,an Febuary 11th will always be remembered as a Bad Day at Nokia allowing Mr Elop say "Symbian Is Dead" an ever since they have been on a Downward Trend at this use to Popular Company

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 11:42 1

40. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)

Just cut Elop...

posted on 04 Dec 2012, 17:14 1

46. Twisted247 (Posts: 282; Member since: 12 Oct 2012)

WAIT Nokia is bleeding money and losing every quarter? That cannot be possible cause -the Nokia lumia is the BESTEST phone in the whole wide world times a million and my daddy can beat up your daddy!!!- Says the nokia BOYS on PA

posted on 05 Dec 2012, 02:04

50. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


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