Nokia alleges that HTC One infringes on its patents; sales ban possible
0. phoneArena 27 May 2013, 17:09 posted on
Finnish handset manufacturer Nokia has filed with the ITC claiming that HTC is infringing on its patents; Nokia says that the Taiwan based HTC is trying to push off responsibility to its suppliers. The patents involved seem to deal with chips made by Broadcom and Qualcomm and are used on the popular HTC One...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. HDShatter (Posts: 1021; Member since: 17 Jan 2013)
I called this happening over a month ago and got downvoted. Here you go its finally happening just like I said it would.
11. Topcat488 (Posts: 1394; Member since: 29 Sep 2012)
NOKIA should pick on somebody their own size... They wouldn't dare challenge Samsung with copying... Poor HTC, getting kicked around from every direction, by these OEM's. their already paying Apple $8.00 a phone. Come on Nokia. :/
30. esperanza (Posts: 49; Member since: 23 Mar 2013)
their already paying Apple $8.00 a phone.
39. phil2n (Posts: 487; Member since: 30 Apr 2012)
The latter mistakenly thought that the exclusivity period had expired???
sounds some bias here, it's not a mistake; ST Microelectronics just want to earn and thought that Nokia won't check HTC One but they've been caught..
48. Wiki_jaan (Posts: 704; Member since: 24 Jun 2012)
HTC is in a big trouble... HTC First is a huge loss.... one doing good but not enough ..... in this era of huge competition no one mercy anyone
38. Klevis88 (Posts: 12; Member since: 15 May 2013)
Nokia has the biggest patent portfolio of all those companies. Nokia beat Apple in court. Samsung has no innovation of its own. Its software is from Google and the parts it supplies to other manufacturers are paid in full when they are bought. Samsung has nothing to go against Nokia.
50. rd_nest (Posts: 1593; Member since: 06 Jun 2010)
56. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
fu%^ htc...when Nokia was in trouble everybody laughed at them so what do you expect now?
17. TheBitterTruth (unregistered)
42. Hemlocke (unregistered)
I didn't downvote you, nor am i going to do so now.
The fact is, this threat by Nokia is as hollow as Samsung's threat to sue Apple for LTE. If Broadcom and Qualcomm are licensed for the IP, then HTC is too because the licensing is included in the purchase contract and price. Why do you think no Android OEM has had any luck suing Apple? They purchase from licensed manufacturers.
43. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Just because you called it, doesn't mean that Nokia is going to get a sales ban on HTC. A more likely outcome will be that the suppliers to HTC will get tagged with sales bans if they don't have a license agreement with Nokia. Unless Nokia can show that HTC has deliberately used suppliers as cut-outs, then HTC has exposure. Proving such a claim absent a smoking gun, is going to be a stretch, however.
I suspect that Nokia is feeling some pain from HTC if they are resorting to litigation as a business strategy.
51. belovedson (Posts: 986; Member since: 30 Nov 2010)
good job shatter. i was wondering how nokia was simply dismissing htc's obvious blunder. nokia did the smart thing. waited for htc to make some bling
2. papss (unregistered)
For f)ck sake.. Just stop the ridiculousness already.... Get the real copy cat SS. They all could sue over something that SS copied.
3. HDShatter (Posts: 1021; Member since: 17 Jan 2013)
There is nothing illegal that about Samsungs "copying." What HTC did is illegal and I hope they get what they deserve.
40. tiara6918 (Posts: 2027; Member since: 26 Apr 2012)
Hdshatter,you always troll on HTC articles and bash the company anytime possible. This is clearly not the fault of htc
49. HDShatter (Posts: 1021; Member since: 17 Jan 2013)
HTC is the worst smart phone manufacturer in the world right behind apple.
72. TheBitterTruth (unregistered)
too much bad ass nowadays
52. belovedson (Posts: 986; Member since: 30 Nov 2010)
it wasn't the fault of htc? i guarantee htc knew nokia had some partnership, they either ignored it or was duped by its supplier. i am guessing the former
57. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
not? I think they were aware of what kind of technology Nokia uses. And when they were offered the same they agreed. So they are partially guilty.
5. alltechinside (Posts: 248; Member since: 21 Apr 2013)
Talk about irony. I hope you realize that the company from your profile pic does the same thing. (EVERYONE COPIES and there is nothing wrong with that.) And this post has nothing to do with "Copying" -_-
Like what @HDShatter said, HTC did not ask Nokia for permission (they "mistakenly" used parts that Nokia patented or owned) and they are trying to shift the blame to its supplier.
31. tedkord (Posts: 10713; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
If it's the same parts as in the trial overseas, Nokia neither owns or had patents on the parts, they have an exclusivity deal with the supplier, and the supplier broke that agreement (by mistake, as reported). It was the suppliers fault, HTC was not privy to the terms of their agreement.
33. alltechinside (Posts: 248; Member since: 21 Apr 2013)
Thanks for some feedback. So I guess HTC is not to blame after all (unless they knew about the agreement and broke it anyways). Some of the patents Nokia is using to sue HTC is ridiculous!
12. fanboy1974 (Posts: 1345; Member since: 12 Nov 2011)
Maybe Volkswagen should sue you by using their emblem without their written permission. How does it feel now you copy cat?
32. alltechinside (Posts: 248; Member since: 21 Apr 2013)
Have to say, that gave me a laugh but that wasn't my point lol All car manufacturers have 4 wheels on their cars. Whoever came out with that idea should sue others for copying right? NOPE.
58. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
it's about a specific part of technology. Keep your irony for yourself.
15. Topcat488 (Posts: 1394; Member since: 29 Sep 2012)
Nah, Popss I don't think so... Samsung has already gone through a "Thremonuclear War" with Apple, and still have plenty of cash on hand, too beat down poor Nokia.
36. SleepingOz (unregistered)
You should definitely avoid PA when you're having your period, buddy.
Based on your stupid logic;
IBM should sue every smartphone company,
Sharp should sue them for making phones with camera sensors
and Samsung should sue them for making MP3 supporting phones.
64. shuaibhere (Posts: 1983; Member since: 07 Jul 2012)
Before a year being a apple hater was trend...
Now the trend is to be a samsung hater...
You guys will always hate the big fish unless it's your favourite....
4. WHoyton1 (Posts: 1635; Member since: 21 Feb 2013)
Ooooh snap its the clash of the titans now...well apart from apple and Samsung....this should be interesting
7. ahhxd717 (Posts: 332; Member since: 08 Dec 2011)
This needs to stop... I don't even understand what they're suing over. Chips made by other companies? I don't get it. And if that Electronics company sold those mics to HTC and admitted they thought the exclusivity was over, how is HTC at fault? That's the company's responsibility to uphold their promises to Nokia, not a third party. Maybe if HTC bribed them to sell them the mics, but I doubt that happened. All in all, I think all this is ridiculous. They're just trying to get other phones/competition off the market.
8. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)
NOKIA being a looser and acts like the other company
59. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
they're defending their property, just like samsung establishing a company in US.
65. shuaibhere (Posts: 1983; Member since: 07 Jul 2012)
If samsung did this then you guys will act differently .
9. fanboy1974 (Posts: 1345; Member since: 12 Nov 2011)
Nokia could easily beat HTC and take market share away from Samsung if they made a Android device. Windows Phone will be in third place for years at this rate and Nokia is too dumb to tell Microsoft to pound sand. Nokia would rather cash Microsoft bribe checks than to do proper battle on the field. A bunch of cowards no different than Apple. Just leave struggling HTC alone.
And speaking of Apple I'm surprised that they did not include the S5, S6, S7, Note 3 and Note 4 in their lawsuits. We all know Apple's game plan. Shame that Nokia has to follow behind them picking up leftovers.
10. sprockkets (Posts: 1611; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)
Nokia is the new apple
From FOSS the offending patents:
U.S. Patent No. 6,035,189 on a "method for using services offered by a telecommunication network, a telecommunication system and a terminal for it"
Nokia' infringement allegation relates to the ability of HTC Android devices to install new features on the phone, such as through the Google Play store, likely to trigger an intervention by Google like in the already-ongoing ITC investigation
U.S. Patent No. 6,373,345 on a "modulator structure for a transmitter and a mobile station"
The objective of this invention is to maximize the signal-to-noise ratio for mobile transmissions of speech and other data. A workaround may result in a degradation of speech quality and data speeds.
U.S. Patent No. 6,711,211 on a "method for encoding and decoding video information, a motion compensated video encoder and a corresponding decoder"
Nokia alleges that VP8, among other video codecs, infringes this patent. I'll do a separate post on this. This is another patent likely to result in a Google intervention.
U.S. Patent No. 7,187,945 on a "versatile antenna switch architecture"
This is about compact but multi-frequency-capable radio frequency (RF) components.
U.S. Patent No. 8,140,650 on "use of configurations in device with multiple configurations"
Nokia alleges that HTC uses the claimed invention to manage app-specific permissions in a convenient and secure manner.
U.S. Patent No. 8,363,824 on a "portable electronic device"
This has to do with the layout of components inside a phone, allowing an appealing design and high performance at the same time, and Nokia believes this reads on (among other things) unibody handsets.
16. TheBitterTruth (unregistered)
aint nobody got time to read that
29. XPERIA-KNIGHT (unregistered)
Loool, sorry I was scrolling through and had to laugh at your comment
71. TheBitterTruth (unregistered)
and is this the reason you got so many dislikes? hypocrite people.
21. Stoli89 (Posts: 333; Member since: 28 Jun 2010)
Actually, Nokia has invested around $65 Billion in R&D over the last 15 years...which is considerably more than Apple's development dollars. It only seems fair that it protect key technology it has developed during this period. Much of this tech is not simply design related. No, Nokia is not the new Apple here nor is it trolling. Trolling implies it never actually developed and used this technology, which is clearly not the case.
23. sprockkets (Posts: 1611; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)
Read the patents, and tell me if you think
"storing multiple configuration data sets and a plurality of applications in a device,
checking access control information for defining a right of an application in the device to access a configuration data set in response to an indication from an application in the device requiring access to a configuration data set, and
in response to the application being entitled to access the configuration data set, on the basis of the access control information, arranging access to the configuration data set for the application, wherein at least one service context is stored in the device, the service context comprising at least the configuration data set, and access to the service context is allowed for the application on the basis of the access control information if the application is authorized on the basis of access control information associated with the service context,
wherein access control information comprises at least one of information specified by an external entity and information controlled by an external entity."
...is an actual invention.
26. Stoli89 (Posts: 333; Member since: 28 Jun 2010)
Thank goodness the ITC doesn't make it rulings based simply upon patent summaries. No, the devil is always in the details with patents...and for that you would have to write a book...not a short commentary.
Nokia is estimated to gain about $800 million in IP related recurring revenue post Elop. Other companies would not be paying for these licenses if Nokia was not a prolific technology creator.
45. sprockkets (Posts: 1611; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)
Just in case you are wondering, that isn't the summary, that's the first claim of their patent that they think they invented a permissions based system that androind infringes on.
If they think that, they have another thing coming to them, as the system that android relies on for permissions based security is the linux kernel, which got it from how Unix did it many years earlier.
See for yourself.
/US8140650?pg=PA2&dq=8,140,650 &hl=en&sa=X&ei=_OOjUYTBMvXK4AP o5IDYBg&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA
60. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
you must educate yourself. go back to kindergarten
13. sprockkets (Posts: 1611; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)
Interesting too, that some of the patents thrown at HTC have been invalidated. The obvious one about setting features via the network, so far has resulted in a ITC preliminary ban, but the EU tossed it out in germany due to obviousness. Not sure which one that is since the first one in that list isn't the same looking as the EP one but maybe it is.
Regardless, this is The New Nokia. With Elop at the helm, they are suing only the Android phones, even though the WP ones would infringe as well on the RF patents.
19. Stoli89 (Posts: 333; Member since: 28 Jun 2010)
The non-Nokia WP's are likely under the cross licensing deal made with MSFT over 2 years ago.
25. sprockkets (Posts: 1611; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)
But HTC *is* a Microsoft licensee and they pay royalties on their Android phones!
27. Stoli89 (Posts: 333; Member since: 28 Jun 2010)
The license obviously covers those products with MSFT's OS. As for the other Android related royalties, these obviously do not cover those patent families in question.
34. sprockkets (Posts: 1611; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)
Well there filing mentions only android models but also said "not limited to", so they might be suing them for their wp phones.
14. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Well...If Nokia wanted they could take to court every single manufacturer due to their patents. If they do it it means that a particular company tried to omit the law and used something which didn't belong to them.
It's their property so why souldn't they defend their rights?
Without fresh ideas there's no innovation. Only copying and stealing.
18. Stoli89 (Posts: 333; Member since: 28 Jun 2010)
The Dutch Court ruling was related specifically to the injunction preventing STM from supplying the exclusive components outside of the contract with Nokia. Nokia was successful with this first step. However, what the court did not decide on, as this was not the correct venue for said review, was whether or not HTC was infringing on Nokia patents. Nokia did not go after HTC in the Dutch Court becasue ti would've had to prove intent. This was not necessary to get the injunctive relief. All Nokia had to do was present the contract and device examples shwoing said contract was breeched.
As I expected, the second phase of the IP defense is now in full swing, with these Rich Recording related patents entering into the review of the ITC. It is here where HTC, not STM, will be likely scrutinized.
A simple Google search yields the following result:
I find HTC's "ïgnorance is bliss" defense remarkable, given Nokia's publicity around Rich Recording and the commercial release of this patented tech over 1 year prior to the HTC One's launch date.
Lastly, HTC silence on the matter is also curious, given the fact that the supply of these HAAC's was stopped following the Dutch Court decision. No one knows if currently produced HTC One's even contain this technology because the only thing HTC has done is remove its "Distortion Free Recording" marketing materials from its website.
20. HDShatter (Posts: 1021; Member since: 17 Jan 2013)
Anyone that wants a TL;DR of why they are being sued:
Basically the supplier of the Nokia Mics broke their contract 6 months early by giving HTC the microphones that Nokia helped them make. Nokia is sueing because HTC knew they were not supposed to have the mics at that time. If HTC would of waited till the fall they could of used the Nokia Microphones and not be getting sued right now.
24. Stoli89 (Posts: 333; Member since: 28 Jun 2010)
Not entirely true. Yes, insofar as STM would not have been in breech of contract. However, the patents which ring fence Rich Recording, the technology Nokia is alleging HTC infringed upon with its "own" heavily marketed "Distortion Free Recording" technology, remain (IMO) problematic for HTC. This may be why HTC removed all marketing materials surrounding its Distortion Free Recording following the Dutch Court ruling.
A simple Google search of Nokia's Rich Recording yields the following result:
41. Klevis88 (Posts: 12; Member since: 15 May 2013)
Because they have done more for the mobile industry than anyone else?? Because they are the greenest phone manufacturers and they have a policy not to use materials that come from conflict zones? Nokia is probably the company with the highest morals. Your decision to hate Nokia because they are trying to teach HTC a lesson so they don't go behind Nokia's back to steal their intellectual property (like the microphones) is kinda wrong. You are siding with the thief.
53. sukimtk (Posts: 13; Member since: 04 May 2013)
man i like how trolls tumb down commentsthat are right, would any1 of you let some1 steal your money ??
you wuld sue them afcourse and that is what nokia is doing
go go go nokia :D
i have samsung ativ s btw :D
so i am not nokia fan :P
54. HDShatter (Posts: 1021; Member since: 17 Jan 2013)
This is HTCs and the supplier of the Microphones fault. Nokia is 100% within its rights to sue the living hell out of both of them for breaking a contract 6 months early, especially if they find out that HTC knowingly knew they shouldn't of used the mics.
61. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
'cause you're a she%^ who doesn'ty want to think independently