Nokia Lumia 1020: smaller sensor camera than 808 PureView, but could capture the best images of any smartphone
0. phoneArena 12 Jul 2013, 03:32 posted on
The Nokia Lumia 1020 is a mind-boggling smartphone that just arrived in our office and as it’s making the rounds ahead of our first in-depth look…
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1. Jasper (Posts: 1; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
Cool stuff from Nokia, this, however, makes me feel more upset at how Sony had failed to use its advantages in various departments, including the camera poweress, in its smartphones, hope to see how 1020 stack up against honami
3. vandroid (Posts: 328; Member since: 04 Sep 2012)
I wouldn't be surprised if the Sony honami bested the lumia 1020
6. ChiX017 (Posts: 308; Member since: 09 Nov 2011)
Won't be surprised if the Nokia bested the Honami.
9. xperiaDROID (banned) (Posts: 5629; Member since: 08 Mar 2013)
I wouldn't be surprised if the Sony Honami and Lumia 1020 bested the Galaxy S4 Zoom.
47. Paradox (Posts: 124; Member since: 08 Aug 2012)
They won't best it in terms of zooming in, and that's the point of the gs4 zoom, but nobody seems to understand...
80. Dr.Phil (Posts: 1233; Member since: 14 Feb 2011)
I would like to say that, in my opinion, I think one of the reasons Sony hasn't announced the Honami device yet was because they were waiting to hear about the Lumia 1020. There was originally suppose to be an event on July 4th but that never happened. I'm guessing they postponed it possibly because they felt the need to update the device in light of the Lumia 1020.
This is all speculation, but I think it's possible.
19. pwnarena (Posts: 1129; Member since: 15 Feb 2013)
the rumored honami sensor is also 2/3 so don't expect it to outclass the 1020. as much as i like sony, they can't seem to perfect their own technology. their xperia z camera does not even compare to those used by other flagships even if they're the ones supplying the sensor.
i just hope sony changes for the better.
68. yudi.nemesis (Posts: 1127; Member since: 14 Mar 2013)
at 20MP Honami has pixel size advantage over the Lumia 1020
About 1.7 micron (Honami) vs 1.12 micron (Lumia).
SO in low light Honami canbe better and according to rumours Sony camera division is the one who taking care Honami Camera,
i think there is big possibility Honami camera will outclass Lumia 1020.
Sony has improve Xperia Z camera with the update and the quality is compareable with other flagship camera
74. neutralguy (Posts: 1152; Member since: 30 Apr 2012)
It's not just about the sensor size. Lumia 1020 also has the second gen OIS which means, it could catch light longer without obvious blur. If honami won't have adjustable exposure and shutter speed, I'll give low light to lumia 1020 plus the xenon
79. yudi.nemesis (Posts: 1127; Member since: 14 Mar 2013)
There is another reason why Honami can be better than Lumia 1020.
The rumours also said Honami will have,
Handheld Twilight Mode, Xenon/LED Flash, Super SteadyShot Image Stabilization.
just remember Honami camera is developed by Sony Electronics Imaging division not by Sony Mobile.
89. kobainez (Posts: 429; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
The low light performance is not even that impressive. Too much grain on low light sample...
92. trollinger (Posts: 2; Member since: 17 Jul 2013)
To cover the same area for the photo, Lumia uses two pixels where Honami has one. Also, the optical image stabilizer should help to beat Honami in Video quality and fixed/slow moving objects in low light condition.
Regarding pixel size: Not sure if I calculated it wrong, or if the figure in the article is incorrect or if there are any other factors I didn't take into account.
Assuming x/y ratio 1.5:1 and 1/1.5", I get a sensor of 14x9.4mm² for Lumia, which gives 3.2mu^2 area per pixel (pixel widh: approx. 1.8mu)
Assuming x/y ratio 1.5:1 and 1/2.3", I get a sensor of 9.2x6.13mm² for Honami, which gives 2.8mu^2 area per pixel (pixel width: approx. 1.7mu)
Full disclosure: I'm Nokia SW engineer, so I might be biased, but if my calculations are wrong, it's an honest mistake.
93. trollinger (Posts: 2; Member since: 17 Jul 2013)
After reading some more of the comments, I think I know why I get other figures for Honami: I read in different sources that the Honami would have a 1/2.3" sensor (engadget, heise.de), while most people here seem to expect a 2/3" sensor. Is there a reliable source of information for this?
23. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
stop whining about honami. it's not even pre unit yet and you keep whining. wait until release and they will go head to head. They grumble.
Fingers crossed for Nokia, easily.
86. rgxVOiD (Posts: 440; Member since: 30 Aug 2012)
I thought everyone did the same to lumia 1020 when it was still Nokia EOS?
5. cdgm2509 (Posts: 30; Member since: 29 Mar 2013)
Dude I have to admit I am Sony fanboy since they were SonyEricsson.. I am using the Xperia T right now btw... I am seriously thinking about buying this phone as soon as it is released. Still I am probably going to wait for the honami, to see what it offers (though look at the fail with the T and Z in the camera dept.).. I think we're gonna have to wait and see...
7. _Bone_ (Posts: 2154; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
I urge you to wait for the Honami, Note III with OIS, Motorola with rumored Nikon camera and the G2. With the 1020 you'd gain an excellent camera, but give up so much on the HW and battery front that mid-day when syncing and shooting killed your battery, you wished you never changed.
51. muhsen (Posts: 281; Member since: 07 Jun 2012)
u r so pathetic .....that u don't own him to get the phone for ur own android mania
and all what u have said is untrue,just check all mobile blogs (reviews and user opinions) and u will know
2. boosook (Posts: 1437; Member since: 19 Nov 2012)
Lossless zoom? Marketing gimmick: just look at one of the samples at full res (and I mean the raw 41mp version, you can find it on the web, not the 5mp resized version) and you'll understand why: that's not what I call lossless.
The awesome quality of the pureview is achieved by downsampling the 41mp image which is not very sharp, but has such a great number of pixels that once resized to "normal" smartphone size (like 5mp) looks very sharp.
But when you "zoom" (which actually means that you simply reduce the level of downsampling) the quality deteriorates. At the maximum zoom level, you use the raw pixels from the 41mp image, and the quality is rather poor.
You need an optical zoom if you really want a lossless zoom, that's it.
Images are good, but Nokia is, as always, lying about something...
29. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
so whats your point, by your lack of techincal knowledge and these comments i guess you are not fimiliar with engeneering tricks. the end result is what matters . if we are to believe you then all engineering around the world is a failure from start. this is what We do solve the main problem by any way possible and Nokia has done that we need lossless blurfree pictures and camera capable for low light in 8Mpix picture and we have it why whould anyone care how was the picture processed if the end result is too good except haters.
if ur are so idiot use the HTC ONE wierd camera phone which always produce random pictures at night
76. shikroi (Posts: 187; Member since: 24 Sep 2012)
Lossless zoom is not a marketing gimmick. Just look at the 808. The issue here is that wp is such a garbage os that it can't handle original 808's tech, and no matter how much Nokia tries to make us believe otherwise, that is the simple fact.
Look at the grain on these images compared to the 808. You have to hunt for grain on the full res 808 pics, and on the over-sampled ones, grain is absent. The 1020 is nothing more than a bad 808 knock off. I own a 920, but I am not a blind fanboy. The 1020 is mediocre.
I hope phonearena compares the 808 and 1020 to illustrate the pawnage the 808 dishes out. The 1020's shots literally look like wp's garbage, cartoony algorithms on better hardware. In essence, a polished turd.
So boosook, the tech isn't garbage, and the 808 proves that. What is garbage here is wp8's software. Wp8 can't handle an ND filter and it can't handle two dedicated scaling chips, so right off the bat there is no way this can measure up to the 808. Everyone knows the adreno 220 can't handle the 808's tech, but yet nokia have crammed it in. Well, behold the results in the form of noise, chromatic aberration, over saturation and detail smearing from noise suppressing algorithms, all problems that the 808 does not have.
If this were a linux based os, if ms were faster with their updates, if wp8 wasn't so restricted, the results might have been magical.
One look at the 808's Flikr page and you know right off the bat that the 1020 is nothing but a toy. It doesn't even have HDR or the options to adjust saturation, contrast, sharpness, frame rate(30,25,15 fps), resolutions (2,3,5,8 megapixels and 360p).
I am disappointed in Nokia to the point where I feel like selling my 920 and getting a HTC one at this point.
4. _Bone_ (Posts: 2154; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
Looking at the full-res images I notice quite a large amount of denoising followed by aggressive sharpening, full-res doesn't look quite as good as on the 808. Now if you take a 4X zoomed image, it'll be a 2,5MP cutoff of the 41MP full frame, noisy and not very satisfying.
Per pixel the Exmor RS is a better sensor, wouldn't mind them going 808 with it, which BTW is a better PureView than the 1020. When it comes to zooming, it's still best to have optical capabilities, which means you capture everything at full sensor size.
10. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 3913; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)
Agree, i noticed that too.
Last night i was checking it out from my phone and it looked super, until i tried it on the PC today, zoomed in and saw specs of white particles all over, particularly on night shots.
However, the amount of light captured in the night shot is good.
Colour representation, exposure and the rest is great.
11. FlushGordon (unregistered)
Well, nobody knows if those images were manipulated or not. But it's really HARD for me to believe that those weren't retouched. Metering is good, Color representation is good, but the question is...Are those images really came straight out of cam?
The Color temperature seems to lean on the warmer side, kinda reminds of the Sigma (a lens Maker) Color warmth.
13. _Bone_ (Posts: 2154; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
We're only gonna find out when user samples are up for comparison, but it's not Nokia's intentions to release fake samples with a lot of noise and loss of color details (the faces on the group photo in Central Park are particularly troubled by it).
It's probably the lens that doesn't let through as much sharp detail as the one on the larger 808, the 32MP (16:9) samples weigh in around 8 megabytes which is around the file size of a detailed Galaxy S4 shot at 13 megapixels, which means during daylight the Exmor RS comes close capturing as much detail at much lower resolution.
The RS could've wiped the floor with the PureView but they couldn't get the RGBW processing ready in time, hence the average to bad low-light performance. Hope the Honami has the RGBW version.
15. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
keep whining....sony's the best blabla..I didn't see their best in a direct comparison any sony's handset with exmor or rs vs n8 or 808. Magic?
25. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
replying to yourself? another paranoic?
14. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
you have must hit hard in the head saying such a cr$%....Christ..I can understand one's love toward sony but.....this is pathetic.