Netherlands court gives Nokia a preliminary injunction against the HTC One
0. phoneArena 22 Apr 2013, 18:23 posted on
Nokia has received a preliminary injunction from an Amsterdam district court against HTC as technology made by ST Microelectronics precisely for Nokia has found its way onto the Taiwan based company's new flagship model, the HTC One; the patent covers the technology used for the dual-membrane microphone on the recently launched model...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. lovenyc8 (Posts: 164; Member since: 13 Mar 2013)
Why should HTC have to pay for this? from the article it seems that ST
Electronics should be paying up due to them breaking their NDA
5. Luuthian (Posts: 222; Member since: 09 Sep 2011)
HTC won't have to pay Nokia. The article states they're actually going after ST Microelectronics.
The problem is that Nokia can still seek a ban on the HTC One as a core component of it doesn't actually belong to HTC, be it their fault or not.
6. Penny (Posts: 1383; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
From what I understand, Nokia isn't going after money from HTC, they're trying to get them to stop selling the device. They have pointed the finger at and are going after ST Electronics. I suppose Nokia does have a right to ask HTC not to use the part in their phones, but who knows if HTC even knew that what ST Electronics was selling to them was protected technology. Sucks, but Nokia does seem to have the right here.
11. windroid (unregistered)
HTC is just forbidden to use the micro that belongs to Nokia.
This all story is a shame, this type of situation should exist, in fact, ST Electronics is robbing Nokia.
Although I have my doubts HTC didn't knew the facts, they should be more careful.
55. dexter_jdr (Posts: 1163; Member since: 28 Jun 2012)
all i understand is that some lumia 720 components are better than htc one. hahaha and they say the one is flagship....
2. Sniggly (Posts: 7230; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
I'm sure that if Nokia wanted to play fair, they could just ask for a royalty for the microphone. I'm sure HTC would comply. They've shown a willingness to work with patent disputes in the past.
I don't know why Microsoft and its partners are taking a page from Apple's playbook. Thus far the lawlsuits Apple has thrown around have been among its least successful ventures.
8. Luuthian (Posts: 222; Member since: 09 Sep 2011)
Play fair? Nokia would rather see HTC choke. Nokia has it hard enough as is and HTC is pricariously close to deep financial trouble. At Nokia's best they'd probably ask for some absolutely crazy royalty fee that would seriously hurt HTC's profits on the device in said country.
If Nokia wanted to play fair they would be trying to settle this out of court. Instead it looks like they're going full steam ahead with the judicial system.
13. windroid (unregistered)
Camon! THEY ARE USING Nokia chips! It's like stole a Ferrari and say, how nice is my car?
10. -box- (Posts: 3955; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
I wouldn't say they're taking a page from their playbook. Nokia and Microsoft have genuine patents for new concepts and products and innovations, whereas apple patents something already common or seen as mostly FRAND and tries to sue over it.
14. shikroi (Posts: 187; Member since: 24 Sep 2012)
You do understand this is a unique and innovative feature right?That's like asking that they license out the 808 pureview's tech to others so they can brag about and whoo consumers with Nokia's tech. It's a headliner (Rich Recording) used to sell there phones. If someone else has the same technology then possible consumers who might be inclined to purchase a Nokia product because of this feature wont be. Not to mention since its also a headlining feature for HTC.
34. willard12 (Posts: 1091; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
You do understand that this unique and innovative feature was not created by Nokia, right? The accusation is the violation of a "nondisclosure agreement." That usually means monetary compensation in every other business, not an injunction. And that compensation would come from ST Microelectronics, not HTC. You can always tell when a mobile phone maker and a mobile OS make more money from patents and lawsuits than from actually selling phones.....apparently, even if the patent belongs to someone else. Then, Nokia still has the audacity to tell HTC they should stop copying.
58. shikroi (Posts: 187; Member since: 24 Sep 2012)
You could not be more wrong. Do you even know anything about the microphones in question? They are the only mobile device microphones capable of recording clear sound in excess of 135db. The HAAC microphone is a specific technology engineered and designed by Nokia. Anyone who knows about the 808 pureview (the first device it was introduced in) knows this fact.
HTC has taken this critically acclaimed headlining feature and are masquerading as the primary innovators with there " HDR MIC tech" and a page dedicated to explaining how it works. They have even received praise in reviews for something which they had no part in developing. I am sure a company like HTC must have known the mic's were Nokia's especially with all their engineers having to go through the devices components, so of course Nokia has every right to tell HTC to stop copying.
"Nokia’s engineers found a solution to this with a number of innovations, collectively called High Amplitude Audio Capture (HAAC), which enable you to record audio that sounds as good as when you first heard it."
"It was in 2007 that a Nokia team began thinking about how they could create a microphone that could handle high amplitude noises."
" Following lots of test recordings and demonstrations, the Nokia team filed patent applications for key innovations in early 2009 and began working with suppliers to develop the first prototype HAAC microphones.
Nokia’s team continued to refine the technology before the first HAAC microphone was launched to the world, in the Nokia 808 PureView last summer."
ST electronics is the company in charge of making this component for Nokia. They had no part in the design or R&D of the technology. If ST decides that they can put there exclusive tech on someone else's device without consent from Nokia they should be sued.
62. sbw44 (Posts: 425; Member since: 04 Dec 2012)
I would also like to know what the reviewers will say now! especially after one reviewer here on Phonearena stating that HTC's sound recording blows Nokia's Rich Recording Technology out of the water!
LoL what does this mean now? Nokia's technology blows Nokia's technology out of the water hey!
59. sbw44 (Posts: 425; Member since: 04 Dec 2012)
The same way HTC had the audacity to call out Nokia's PureView technology the time they announced the Htc One!
Also mentioning that with the 808 unveil that the megapixel race was escalated and that more megapixels wont help you one bit which was a slap in Nokia's face!
17. Penny (Posts: 1383; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
In this case, I would imagine that it's more than just about getting money from another manufacturer. They invented technology that they hoped would give them a competitive advantage against one of their chief competitors, and that advantage was simply nullified without the competitor even having to engineer something better. Taking a royalty may be a more practical approach now that the HTC One is already out, but I can understand that they must be very frustrated with the idea of their competitors using the tech they engineered exclusively for their own devices.
35. willard12 (Posts: 1091; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
"They invented technology that they hoped would give them a competitive advantage."
As I understood the article, I don't think Nokia invented it, but just wanted the inventor not to sell it to anyone else.
43. Fossi (Posts: 3; Member since: 23 Apr 2013)
"microphone components [were] invented by and manufactured exclusively for Nokia."
Taken from the article at Enadget. Invented by Nokia and manufactured exclusively for Nokia.
Nokia Filed for a Patent on it 2009.
Multi-membrane microphone for high-amplitude audio capture
US 8233637 B2
71. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
That's only partially correct. The technology is exclusive for 12 months. Once the contract is up, everyone should have the access to the technology, but will have to sign contract agreements with Nokia to avoid violating patent.
"The same dual-membrane microphone is used in both the Lumia 720 and the HTC One, but Nokia (which co-developed and designed the component) had signed a 12-month exclusivity deal with the chipmaker -- a deal that STMicroelectronics apparently thought was only six months long."
Engadget, the same place where you go your quote.
60. shikroi (Posts: 187; Member since: 24 Sep 2012)
"It was in 2007 that a Nokia team began thinking about how they could create a microphone that could handle high amplitude noises.
Together, Antti and Teemu explained the roots of the problem to me:
Most microphones have a certain dynamic range – one can be sensitive to the quietest sounds while another can tolerate extremely loud noises.
What is difficult to achieve, particularly in a mobile device where the component may only be 3-4 millimetres wide, is having a microphone that can be effective for both the quiet and loud parts of the sound.
The solution found
Following lots of test recordings and demonstrations, the Nokia team filed patent applications for key innovations in early 2009 and began working with suppliers to develop the first prototype HAAC microphones.
Nokia’s team continued to refine the technology before the first HAAC microphone was launched to the world, in the Nokia 808 PureView last summer."
64. sbw44 (Posts: 425; Member since: 04 Dec 2012)
Are you one of those people samsung paid to comment negative stuff on competitors articles?
Cant believe phonearena not mentioning that "Samsung acknowledges dirty ‘unfortunate’ tactics in writing false hate against competition"
67. eanpreou (Posts: 19; Member since: 14 Feb 2013)
please you're the one who needs to read the article again. stop making a fool of yourself.
31. PhansMuneeb (Posts: 359; Member since: 28 Jan 2012)
they clearly are not asking for royalties here but are seeking injuction against Htc One for using their technology.....
56. dexter_jdr (Posts: 1163; Member since: 28 Jun 2012)
they not letting them sell htc phone because they used their innovation in it.
4. Luuthian (Posts: 222; Member since: 09 Sep 2011)
*Meant this comment as a reply. Ignore it*
7. JojoGo101 (Posts: 211; Member since: 17 Dec 2012)
I understand this, but let's be honest, the One needs it more than the 720.
I know people don't doesn't even know what's Windows Phone.
15. windroid (unregistered)
And that's supposed to mean: since One needs the micro more than 720 then it's ok to rob?
29. xprimer (Posts: 43; Member since: 25 Jan 2013)
oh, kid, com'n. If someone stole yer property, is it okay and say, ok thats not a problem.
I dont thnk u can do that. Grow up and get some milk. . .
36. willard12 (Posts: 1091; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
It isn't Nokia's property, it's SK Microelectronic's property. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a mindless analogy.
38. eisenbricher (Posts: 972; Member since: 09 Aug 2012)
No, Nokia comissioned ST to develop it means that it belongs completely to Nokia. A builder builds your home doesn't mean that he can let anyone live in it.
47. TheLoyalist (Posts: 22; Member since: 11 Feb 2013)
It's developed on behalf of Nokia, that means, and if you look at the patent, that it's Nokias exclusive property.
32. raunak (Posts: 507; Member since: 12 Oct 2011)
"needs it more than the
By that logic, we should all steal money from Bill Gates because we need it more than him.
48. TheBitterTruth (unregistered)
65. sbw44 (Posts: 425; Member since: 04 Dec 2012)
Or I can steal someone's car because I need it more!
39. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 3135; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)
Your ignorance is overwhelming!
It's not just the 720, it's used in the 920 as well.
Sorry, but It's people like your kind of thoughts in ST Electronics that sold the patented good to HTC without giving Nokia the heads up.
9. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
In the wake of the decision, Nokia has told HTC that it should compete with its own innovations and to "stop copying from Nokia." Nokia can now seek a sales ban on the HTC One in the country, another problem for the already delayed handset.
Just out of curiosity... how is this considered copy??
12. -box- (Posts: 3955; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
RTFA, explains that a patented and exclusive tech was shared without permission, hence the infringement
50. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
ST Microelectronics provided HTC the technology to use in HTC's device while they shouldn't. Sounds to me that HTC really isn't at fault here nor is there any copying involved.
18. shikroi (Posts: 187; Member since: 24 Sep 2012)
It's a copy because it's the exact same component designed and pioneered by Nokia for their exclusive use, that is being used in HTC's device. To make matters worse HTC has put their own marketing term on the tech "HDR Recording" (Nokia's term is Rich Recording), and has bragged about it and has given themselves a lot of credit for the tech, in order to help sell the one as a multimedia device to consumers. It's like taking someone's essay and and accepting all credit for it.
51. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
You are right, but that's under the circumstances that HTC does know the part was being used and created by Nokia. However, if the they didn't know, and ST Microelectronics has been offering vendors this technology then it'd be ST Microelectronics at fault. HTC may be violating a patent voluntarily or not, but it shouldn't be accused of copying until actually proven guilty.
53. Altair (Posts: 367; Member since: 02 Feb 2012)
You are joking, right? Everyone knows what HTC does. Its shameless thief. HTC talks a lot, delivers little. More importantly HTC has been caught lying several times. That doesnt make any good for them.
70. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
So Nokia being the co-developer of this microphone technology, taking all the credits for themselves. I guess that's the heroic thing to do to you eh? I've already said in my last comment that HTC is violating a patent, but stealing... innocent before proven guilty. ST Microelectronics thought the technology exclusive contract was already up, so offered the technology to HTC to use. Then again, why am I explaining all this to some guy with a windows logo as an avatar.
16. clevername (Posts: 1435; Member since: 11 Jul 2008)
Its one thing to ask for royalties on a patent that is for common tech., but this is a component that gives Nokia an edge against competitors, and has a multitude of alternatives. Nokia is doing right. HTC just happens to be an unfortunate victim of ST's greed...or maybe they aren't...
19. windroid (unregistered)
Off topic: the HTC One internals don't look that nice.
42. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 3135; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)
Agreed. Components in the One looks scattered...while it's more organised in the 720.
20. lyndon420 (Posts: 2610; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)
So now HTC should sue the supplier of the mics in question. Pretty sure htc wasn't asking for someone else's exclusive tech. ST Microelectronics has some explainin' to do.
27. kozza3 (Posts: 594; Member since: 17 Oct 2012)
someone that has common sense around here. but it depends on if HTC actually didn't know that part was exclusive to Nokia.
40. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 3135; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)
Let's read the article properly before commenting.
MS has nothing to do with this, while it has everything to do with Nokia, but they're on the fair side.
So watch what you comment man!
49. TheBitterTruth (unregistered)
Same goes to your comment.
54. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
This must be extreme fanboyism. For goodness sakes, they're just companies that make products to sell. You don't earn anything from them by talking nonsense.
22. Edmund (Posts: 656; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
More clueless reporting from android/htc fanboys
I doubt Nokia has sought the injunction based on HTC’s use of the chip. More likely it’s the claim (or "inference" in legal terms) through their advertising material that HTC developed the HDR technology behind the ONE’s (sic) rich recording microphone, which clearly it didn't.
The media love to report misinformation
25. windroid (unregistered)
"It’s the concert of the year, easily the best seat in the house, and you pull out your smartphone to create the perfect live video of your favorite song."
They forgot to credit the technology owner.
24. f1r3z0r (Posts: 88; Member since: 09 Nov 2011)
well for those who asking themselves about why HTC has to pay for it? Just because they are the one USING the parts or components which nokia have been patented before plus they will sue the company with more money =) like samsung sue by iCrap or maybe I'm talking nonsense here =)
33. MultiYouTroll (Posts: 29; Member since: 19 Apr 2013)
Nokia did not just patent it before them, they pioneered the technology.. unlike iPhones curved edges..
26. cameogt (Posts: 88; Member since: 18 Oct 2012)
i am seeing an engineer from HTC will be fired. lol.
28. kclgphilsbsa (Posts: 765; Member since: 21 Jan 2013)
Nokia is on d ryt side.. todays smartphone compttion is so tough that u want to have an edge above d oders, this rich recording is a major edge..that is Nokia's business, so lets just accept what they want..
30. xperiaDROID (banned) (Posts: 5629; Member since: 08 Mar 2013)
No worries! This will be "fair-settled", not like Apple, Apple never give up of suing!
So, this court (Nokia v.s HTC) will be fair-settled, I know they're kind manufacturers, not like Apple! :)
37. Evil.Bunny (Posts: 41; Member since: 29 Feb 2012)
so....mid range nokia's use the same components as the highest end HTC?