Motorola DROID RAZR gets a version with HD display and 13MP camera for China
0. phoneArena 14 Nov 2011, 09:39 posted on
The TD-SCDMA version of the DROID RAZR leaked with a 4.5" 720p display and a 13MP camera on the back, destined for China Mobile...
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1. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
lol, wonder if they used ardent's link from the other thread.
600 million subscribers eh? not too shabby. Im sure we will find this one in the states in 6 months. We are generally behind Asia when it comes to phone tech. Always have been.
If only we had a giant huge profit american company that would push tech instead of use old tech to keep their margins insane.. hmmm..
38. SuperEd (Posts: 132; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
i'm no Driod fan at all. I'm married to WP7. but dang! These specs are impressive!!!! we always get the short end of the stick here in the US of A. Oh well. Always can dream. :-)
2. vishu9 (Posts: 252; Member since: 03 Mar 2011)
Get that HD+ 13MP RAZR to the States ASAP...drool..Me wants it!!
3. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I've said it once and I'll say it again - NOBODY here needs a 13 MP camera. Waste. Of. Storage.
The screen sounds pretty sweet, though.
5. omarc26 (Posts: 360; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Just cuz u said it doesn't mean anything. I used to work in at&t and Verizon before and trust me most people only want the latest stuff. The average joe just walks in and first thing they look at is how many megapixels the cameras on the phones have they think the more the better I've seen it happen many times..because I'm Guessing they like to show off to there friends that there phones have more megapixels than there friends phones? Idk I nvr really understood that. Also another thing I noticed they look at screen resolutions they dnt care if its qhd, amoled or retina display they just look at like 3 different phones and which ever one they think looks better they buy it. They dnt know the difference between qhd, amoled and retina. They just buy the one they like the most. ..
8. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I get that there's a wicked bragging rights streak in the phone world, but where do we draw the line? The OMAP 4 is capable of a 20 MP camera, but that doesn't mean we need 20 MP cameras. The additional megapixels don't add anything to the image quality unless they're matched with a stellar lens and aperture. Inevitably we will see 12, 13, 16 MP cameras on phones, and buyers may wonder why the images don't look any better than the 6 MP point-and-shoot they bought in 2004.
7. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
u know what i love.. when someone tells me what i need.. oh wait.. i dont.. which is why i dont buy apple products.
choice is key. the free market will decide what we do and dont need. many digital cameras are 13mpx and up now. why should a phone camera be any different? I would be happier if they announced a real camera lens and aperture over a bigger mpx number though.
9. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
We don't need $200 13 MP digital cameras either. It's just the inevitable "bigger is better" phenomenon. It made sense when things were actually _getting_ better, like processor speeds, screen resolutions, HDTVs, etc. But I think (non-professional) cameras are one area where they maxed out at 8 MP and now they're just playing the buying public. My dad upgraded from a 6 MP to 12 MP camera, and the only noticeable difference is that the pictures take up more drive space. Hooray for progress.
11. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
again, the camera improvements that you look for are parts and software, not megapixels. higher MPX is nice, but its not the most important thing. if your dad didnt buy a top end camera, more than likely he got what he already had+a larger file size.
its the parts where you say "we dont need" that get me. u are generalizing everyone based on your needs. u have no idea what i need or what bob down the street needs. let them put it out, and if the free market wants it, it will be a success.
12. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I think it sets a bad precedent though. Suppose the Droid Razr had included the 13 MP camera. It then goes on to sell phenomenally well, but not because of the size of its megapixels, because of the rest of the phone. But now the market looks at it and says "well, people must want a super-thin phone with a 13 MP camera". Because we don't yet have phone-sized lenses and apertures to produce good 13 MP pictures - especially in low-light - the next generation of high-end phones has mediocre photo quality.
This is a case where I think Apple has the right idea. They didn't push out an 8 MP camera until they were confident the rest of the camera hardware would support it. They may not give us everything we need, but they generally don't give us things we DON'T need.
19. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
the tech is there, the phone companys dont use it. Nokia has consistently stellar phone cameras for their high end because they use higher end parts. zeiss lens and bigger apertures. Which nokia uses a 12mpx camera with high end equipment? the N8?
The i4s has an improvement in camera parts, but its quality is only marginally better at best compared to the sgs2 and others.
22. ayephoner (Posts: 850; Member since: 09 Jun 2009)
remix, like so many things, i think you just dont get it.
we dont need it because it offers no actual improvement. its actually a step back, because for the same image quality, the files take up more space. unless the sensors improve vastly, there is absolutely no need for anything over 8mp (or even over 5mp) on a phone. you could really only tell the difference if you PRINTED a poster of the image, in which case the quality of any phone camera would not look good.
23. saffant (Posts: 272; Member since: 04 Jul 2011)
The Galaxy Nexus' 5mp snapper blows compared to the 8mp in the GS2; sometimes upping the mp brings forth changes/improvements to the lenses/color prod'n etc which u normally wudn't see until an "upgrade" ie 8mp -> 13mp.
No one's gonna bother changing their 5mp camera just to please a few enthusiasts, but they will bring forth new camera tech in order to attract newer customers.
28. sgogeta4 (Posts: 394; Member since: 02 Feb 2011)
And you know the Nexus' camera sucks from experience or are you just talking crap?
24. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
you do realize, you just agreed with me.. right?? lol. maybe u should reread my statement.
the ONLY part i took issue with is the "we dont need" part. and i will always take issue with that as the free market decides what we need, not some arbitrary person's PoV. Let them put it out to market and then we shall see. if the camera quality isnt improved, then the market will not buy it. If the market sees an improvement then it will.
26. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
Has the market seen improvement in the move from 5 MP to 8 MP? In general I mean, not one particular phone vs. another. I've seen many reviews on PA and Cnet where the image quality is pretty much the same. The industry didn't shift to the current 8 MP standard because people saw improvement. The shift may have been *despite* no improvement.
My original comment is my knee-jerk reaction to people clamoring for 13 MP without caring if it's a good camera. I don't want to see 13 MP phones become the new standard when the 8 MP phone still hasn't been perfected.
27. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
there has been moderate improvement. the biggest improvements come in the form of better compression, higher FPS when doing video and the switch to 1080p capability, for most of them. Nokia pushed that while using superior camera parts at the same time, which is why people swear by the N8.
29. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
None of those improvements you listed have anything to do with the number of MP in the sensor. Good image compression and the ability to record 1080p video at 60 fps are software/CPU functions. It's only with the current crop of dual-core phones that we finally have the processing power to record HD video. A really good 2-3 MP sensor would be enough, but you won't find a dual core phone with less than 5 MP.
30. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I challenge you to give me examples wherein someone NEEDS a 13 MP camera in their phone.
31. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
what\'s you problem? if someone need it, let it be. I need it. Not your business.
I\'m happy like hell with my 12 mpx N8 because I use his camera a lot.
If Nokia, samsung, Motorola, htc or the others have a technology and proper camera modules...why shouldn\'t they use them?
32. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
Because the other manufacturers *don\'t* have proper camera modules. They seem to think they can slap in a high-pixel density sensor and market it as an improvement. I see review after review where photos have poor low-light quality, washed out colors, etc. I understand that your N8 is different. (Here in the US, Nokia smartphones haven\'t been available, so I tend to ignore Nokia.) I just don\'t understand this constant drive for higher # MP when in the case of most phones, it contributes nothing to image quality and may actually makes it worse.
41. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
I dont have an N8, i have an SGS1 which uses a 5mpx camera. I havent owned a nokia phone in quite a while since i live in FL. That doesnt mean we cant give credit where credit is due.
39. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
i challenge you to tell my why i would never ever ever need it. you keep telling me what I need.. that is my issue.
if i feel i need a 30mpx camera, who are you to say I dont? Its my money. I earned it. I can spend it however i want.
Most of us dont NEED a lot of things.. cable TV, 2 cars, a car thats stronger than a Geo metro... a car at all.. .cell phones that do more than call, nice clothes, hair cuts..
We dont NEED any of that. But we have the CHOICE to get it. Thats the point.
37. ayephoner (Posts: 850; Member since: 09 Jun 2009)
youre just being contrary.
consumers dont voice their 'needs' with their purchases. especially when we are talking about one spec of one part of a smartphone. its not as if there are several galaxy nexus devices with different MP cameras coming out.
i have a droid X, but dont at all need an 8MP camera. it just doesnt work like that.
40. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
the only reason you are in this fight is because u have been trying to find a reason to contradict me on multiple threads.. congrats, here ya go. your still wrong.
people very much voice their needs with purchases. that is the whole concept of the free market. what the market wants, will survive, what the market doesnt want gets thrown by the wayside. maybe take an economics class?
44. ayephoner (Posts: 850; Member since: 09 Jun 2009)
people want high end smart phones (and most dont need them), so they buy them. they tend to have absurdly high megapixel counts on their cameras.
drawing a direct correlation between those purchases and need for high megapixel count would surely get you a failing grade in any econ class.
manufacturers throw the higher mp cameras on as a selling point. it is widely documented how absurd the public's misunderstanding of megapixel count and how it effects picture quality. again, misunderstanding does not convey need.
and, a vast majority of pictures and video taken on a cell phone will never reach any format larger than maybe a 23" monitor. like i said in my first post, the NEED for 8MP over 5 would only be seen in printing a poster sized image (the difference in 13MP would take you to the size of a door).
so, please, mr. econ, explain how any of that points to need.
52. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
umm.. you do realize that to view a picture on a 23 inch monitor full screen without any jaggies your going to need an 8mpx camera or bigger.. :)
57. ayephoner (Posts: 850; Member since: 09 Jun 2009)
a 1080p resolution is 1,920x1,080, which is just over 2 million pixels.
do you know of some 23 inch monitor with a higher res than 1080p?
how would you need 8 million pixels or more?
18. biophone (Posts: 1923; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Ikingtrust we just got rid of taco dont try and fill in his shoes.
21. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
yet, im not the one trolling threads trying to find negative things to say. burn any ants with a magnifying glass lately? geesh.
43. ardent1 (Posts: 2000; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
You also need to consider the cost as well.
I don't know how much a 13MP shooter costs versus a 8 MP shooter, but I will take stab here and stay $20 a unit when bought in quantities of millions of units. Think about the $20 figure for a minute.
If you are like most people who buy cases (say Otterbox) to protect your phone and a thin film (say Zagg) for expensive display, each of these products easily cost about $20 or more. After I bought my iPod Touch 4G, I went through 3 cases ($20 basic Griffin case), ($40 Otterbox Defender) and finally settled on my favorite Otterbox Reflex ($35). I wish I could have spent the $60 that I wased on the Griffin or Defender case for better optics on the iPod Touch optics. That is to say I would have easily paid $60 MORE if Apple offered the iPod 4G with a better camera.
Now, if you gave the consumers the choice of a RAZR with 8 MP shooter or the 13 MP shooter and say the difference was $25 to $30 (to justify a comfortable profit margin) higher for the 13MP version, most people will spend the extra $30 just for the bragging rights of having the 13 MP shooter.
Most of the AVERAGE consumer doesn't need all the features in the cellphone, but if it doesn't cost that much to include, then it doesn't hurt to have better specs.
4. McLTE (Posts: 809; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
wow.. if this would have been the Razr that landed on Friday.. I'd have gobbled it up!
I played with it, it's VERY VERY nice!! I just can't pull the trigger on a phone without a 720p screen at this point.
6. jasongohjr (Posts: 75; Member since: 26 Sep 2011)
A 720p screen seems to be the most wanted feature on smart phone now :D
10. anirudhshirsat97 (Posts: 408; Member since: 24 May 2011)
Actually I would prefer qhd super amoled screen, personal preference... I just can't do without a super amoled screen anymore... Lets see how good the nexus is..
46. sgogeta4 (Posts: 394; Member since: 02 Feb 2011)
All these phones have SAMOLED screens, even in the US...
13. xmusicianguy (Posts: 96; Member since: 13 Jul 2011)
They also bumped up the speaker size and added a DUAL LED Flash. Thanks Motorola. Wonder what the World Version of the Bionic looks like!
14. mills0806 (Posts: 37; Member since: 13 Nov 2011)
I am wondering how much that phone would cost on China Mobile. Does China Mobile have 2 year contracts or 3 year contracts like Canada?.
16. bolaG (Posts: 468; Member since: 15 Aug 2011)
This is exactly what I wish came out here. The Razr with a better screen would be the most WIN phone in the planet. Thats the only down fall with the Razr right now. I'm JEALOUS
17. iKingTrust (banned) (Posts: 716; Member since: 27 Jul 2011)
So anyway this is a very impressive phone.
25. Joshing4fun (Posts: 1233; Member since: 13 Aug 2010)
Don't you just love how off-topic these comments get?
33. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
I understand that. But you see, HTC has one. 4g touch. It has really good camera.
Samsung made a good camera phones in the past too (jet, Wave..what they haven\'t utilized those camera modules in for example new nexus??). Why they didn\'t utilize it in other top models, such as rezound? that\'s a mystery for me.
If they want to make a new flagship, why don\'t use the best we have?
I know that some of 5 mpx phones (for geeks maybe too old...like Elm, hazel, 6700 classic, N82, N86 or Jet, Wave) make better pictures than most of current high end phones.
It\'s just unfair. You buy top notch new phone. New flagship. And you get new processor, old display, new system, old camera, old battery, and so on so on.
34. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5711; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
the Rezound uses the same camera that's in the Amaze and the myTouch 4G Slide and the new Nexus is really the phone that spurred the need to ask if Mega Pixels are really so important because Samsung did decide to use a 5MP camera in it but the stills and videos look as good as anything by the supposed better cameras out there like the 8MP cameras on Motorola devices such as the Droid 3 and Droid Bionic, i can about guarantee you the Nexus takes better pictures than either of those devices.
49. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
You are probably wrong. Rezound has different camera than myTouch 4G. Or is it something with post processing algorithm because Rezound makes worse shoots than myTouch.
I\'ve seen the same problem in other phones. those from Nokia or SE (compare ARC and Ray...the same unit, but image quality different)
Don\'t be so sure about Nexus. For samsung, camera has never been so important factor. They had once few phones with really good camera, but now...well, other factors are more important.
51. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5711; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
which myTouch are you talking about? the myTouch 4G from last year? the Rezound uses the same camera as the myTouch 4G Slide and the Amaze 4G with it's F2.2 wide lens or whatever.
so you're saying they used a new 5MP module as opposed to the 8MP module that they already have because the camera quality wasn't a priority to them? that makes no sense at all.
54. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Why doesn\'t make any sens? Their goal is not to give customer a great camera, only ICS.
They had better cameras than those in SGS but they didn\'t gave it (I\'m talking about pixon for example). What they developed this technology once and didn\'t use it later?
They know that nexus is a dev device. They did it with previous generation. They could do it more powerful but they didn\'t. Many were dissapointed.
It\'s nothing new. Look at mentioned Ray and Arc.
The same camera module but worse software resulting worse pictures. Do you think it\'s an accident?
They have a purpose doing that.
About myTouch..my mistake. I was referring to 4G Slide of course.
Still, I think that pictures produced by myTouch 4G Slide are better than those produced by Rezound.
55. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5711; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
why would they go out of their way to procure newer 5MP modules to make the Nexus less usable in the camera department when they could've just used the same 8MP module they have for the Galaxy S II with little loss to themselves? i'll tell you. it's because this newer module has more value than the ones they already have. i don't pretend to know anything about cameras but the logic and the evidence speaks for itself.
well maybe it's the myTouch's software but the Rezound uses the exact same camera module as the myTouch 4G Slide.
56. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Maybe more value..but what does it mean?
For customers, like me or you, the most important factor is the quality of images.
Look at Nokia for example.
New gen of handsets. They put in not-so-good 5 mpx modules when they could put a little bit older but much more better.
For example, those from N82, 6700 Classic, blablabla.
The price would be slashed down because the older unit is cheaper than the new ones.
And you, as a consumer would be given much more better camera for lesser price.
I think samsung has better cameras right now. But they cannot put it, if they have it, in google phone. It would be like shooting in their own feet,
They leave it for next generation of galaxy. I say, maybe. Cannot be sure.
35. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
The reason I\'m so excited to upgrade right now is that we\'re finally seeing improvements in processor and screen quality and OS. That\'s why the Nexus is such a big deal - for anyone upgrading from their 2 year old phone, it will be a big improvement in just about every area.
Cameras are a sticking point though, in large part because people associate quality with # MP, and the last year\'s worth of phones has shown that not to be the case.
42. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
yes, im very happy with the direction the hardware and ICS are going. could you imagine 5 years ago saying "i have a 720p screen on my phone"? heck, most people still didnt have that in their house.
And again, i agree with you on the mpx =/= to camera quality. just have an issue on the "dont need" part.
my 5mpx sgs1 takes great pix. heck one of my favorite cameras was on the Storm.. that 3.2 mpx camera was better than most that are still out. One of blackberry's secret strong spots in their high end phones was the camera.. almost always good stuff.
47. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I've heard very good things about the SGS1 camera, which leads me to ask, why mess with success? Since the SGS and iPhone 4 5 MP cameras were so good, why can't we accept 5 MP as the sweet spot for a phone camera? It's a diminishing returns thing - we saw improvement from 1.3 MP to 2 and 3, and then quality leveled off around 5 MP. That tiny lens and aperture simply don't let in enough light for an 8+ MP camera. That's why the better rated 8 MP phones - the 4S, 4G Touch, etc. have to use larger apertures to achieve essentially the same quality.
I understand that my saying "you don't need" sets you off, but think about it. You're happy with what you have - aside from bragging rights, do you really need more? Does anyone?
53. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
because to accept a "sweet spot" means you are no longer evolving the technology.
who wants the same technology for the next 20 years when u know u could have evolved it 1000x over that same time period.
this is tech.. what is great today is trash tomorrow.
36. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
We\'ll see if Nexus is really as good as you\'re talking about. The thing is that this year 8 mpx is trendy. It\'s like fashion. We need to put 8 mpx sensor in a phone so it will go with the flow. No matter if the 8mpx camera is NOT better than the previous 5 mpx.
Most of those 8mpx are rubbish and don\'t live up to expectations or the rest of the specification.
If Nexus has 5 mpx unit which is as good as, lets say, S II it will be impressed.
48. roldefol (Posts: 4108; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I would love for the Nexus to have a better 5 MP camera than most of the current crop of 8 MP phones. Then maybe people will think before they jump on the coming 13 MP bandwagon. STOP THE MEGAPIXEL INSANITY!
50. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
MPX has already stopped. Satio, Pixon, N8..there is not too many phones with more than 12 mpx unit. And those which are, still produce the best pictures. Even compared them to nowadays high end units.
If company knows how to utilize this power, how to make it properly, let them do it. If this is just a race for a first place in contest \"more mpx=more popularity\" it\'s bad, because it means there is no progress and no benefits for us, customers. Empty mpx without proper technology.