LTE iPhone could bankrupt Sprint
0. phoneArena 20 Mar 2012, 04:02 posted on
Dreaming about an LTE iPhone? You’ve got the right to - Verizon has said it won’t sell any non-4G smartphones this year and AT&T is rolling out and expanding its LTE network…
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. nyamo (Posts: 274; Member since: 19 Mar 2011)
with sprint it always seems too little too late. they had to know about LTE when they deployed wimax. why bother going with an industry standard.... every time sprint makes a busniess decision they make the exact opposite of what should be done. i feel if they plan to continue business in the future they need an over haul from the top down and get somebody in there with leadership and a clear path
15. cellgeek82 (Posts: 518; Member since: 20 Dec 2009)
Agreed. Sprint likes being the odd ball. This is why they're on a downward spiral. They wanted WiMax while the rest of the world, yes the whole world adopted LTE.
If Sprint were stranded in the desert they'd beg for more sand while everyone else ran to the oasis.
16. Fallout09 (Posts: 413; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Check your facts bud... Sprint didn’t have a choice with WiMAX. Why is it so hard to understand that it was a "USE IT OR LOSE IT" situation with some spectrum agreements? LTE simply wasn’t ready nor available to roll
23. rallyguy (Posts: 533; Member since: 13 Mar 2012)
Sprint launched Wimax 4G in 2008. AT&T is just rolling it out in 2012, and Verizon started in 2011 or 2010.
It's ignorant to say Sprint went with Wimax when everyone else was going to LTE.
LTE was not heard of when Sprint launched 4G years ago.
28. tedkord (Posts: 4507; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
That's a silly statement. Do you think these technologies just appear suddenly one day?
LTE was first proposed in 2004, with development beginning in 2005. Sprint, and all carriers, certainly knew about LTE,
Since it was a natural, obvious upgrade path for GSM carriers, it was fairly certain it would be widespread.
Now, CDMA carriers like Sprint and Verizon had a more difficult decision. since it wasn't such a natural path for them, but they both knew the world would most likely be heading down the LTE path, and that it would be a well developed tech.
It wasn't ready when Sprint launched WiMAX, that's true. Sprint made the poor decision to go with an orphaned tech just so they could claim they were first with 4G (which they weren't - no one has true 4G yet). Yes, they had to either act or lose it, but in hindsight they'd probably be better just losing it, and investing in LTE for their network. They wouldn't be first, but their "firsts" haven't been all that impressive - WiMAX, 3d display, dual display...
Sprin't most impressive attribute right now isn't a first, it's a last - they're thre last major carrier to drop true unlimited data. I hope they tough it out for a long time to come, and keep the other carriers more honest.
32. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
Wimax was far from orphaned when sprint went with it. At the time there was an expected "battle" between wimax and LTE. The federal government had also proposed a bill to build wimax coverage for all major cities so everyone could have "free internet" pretty much anywhere. Then the markets collapsed and that bill went bye-bye. Had the markets not collapsed, sprint would be sitting in a much healthier position with their wimax as it would have been compatible with all those free government towers. They rolled the dice, and lost.
Also, they wanted to be first out the gate with one of the 2 new 4g technologies. Since LTE was still in baby trial stages, Wimax was the only option.
Honestly, sprint has made a lot of bad chance decisions over the years. They are operating too many incompatible networks at the same time which costs a lot of extra money. They made the deal with the devil with the iphone that cost too much money.
If I were in charge, i never would have made that mega deal with apple. I would have instead made deals with every other OS manufacturer to make sure I got the best phones that were coming out, and getting them first. It would have cost some $$, but it would have been a hell of a lot less than they gave to apple. They could have built their own LTE network with that money....
That and turn off iDen and all the other BS thats costing them cash.
43. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
yea, they announced that like 2 years ago. Thats a long time. Give the people 90 days to get a free upgrade to a similar phone on non-iden, and shut the darn thing off.
34. ngo2dd (Posts: 781; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
Knowing about and being ready is different. Why do people feel that WiMax itself is so inferior. WiMax been in use for japan for a couple years now. They have WiMax 2.0 ready to go. The tech is not bad it was clearwire fault for just being s**tty
29. Commentator (Posts: 2340; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
For what it's worth, several current iPhone users I've talked to (who use AT&T) are switching to Sprint when the next one comes out, simply because they have the lowest prices. These are all broke college students, though, so, as PA would say, "take this with a grain of salt."
2. Slammer (Posts: 991; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
The relationship between Sprint and Clearwire is very dysfunctional. Ok, I understand the reasoning behind the WiMAX initiative. It was either allocate and use the spectrum before given date or forfeit the licenses. WiMAX was a ready technology. LTE was no where near ready. So Sprint made the right decision no matter how people look at it.
However, With WiMAX up and running, Sprint and Clearwire should've remained as strong allies as possible. The massive spectrum holdings of Clearwire, is the notch that Sprint needs to compliment their own holdings. Sprint needs to focus on coddling Clearwire. This is the epitome of importance. They have squandered time and efforts over bickering rather than building what could be the fastest and most rubust 4G network around.
This is where the rubber meets the pavement. Sprint and Clearwire must forge ahead and take control. Stop acting as children and set the differences aside. Let's get this network rolling and prove that working together is better than feuding.
48. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)
I BELIEVE IN SLAMMERCARE.
3. darktranquillity (Posts: 284; Member since: 28 Feb 2012)
I thought apple could make only individuals bankrupt with its overpriced craps. alas! I'm wrong:-(
4. Bluesky02 (Posts: 1439; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)
Every news i hear about sprint come to same conclusion
Sprint Shoot Itself
7. theday68 (Posts: 2; Member since: 20 Mar 2012)
There's always more demand than supply for a new iPhone model, so call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that Sprint is going to sell plenty of them regardless.
Aside fromt that, why is it that if a company isn't number one or competeing for number one as far as sales/subscribers/revenue, ets. that they are considered 'doomed'? Yes, Sprint is having a bit of a financial disaster, but that hasn't seemed to stop dozens of other companies over the last few years, has it?
On a side note, I can't wait to use Verizon or AT&T's blazing LTE service so I can zip my way to my data limit in less than half the time!
11. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 843; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
Sprint will have LTE running in NYC, Westchester up to Dutchess County, some parts of LI, California, Alexandria Virginia DC- Baltimore corridor, Boston, Northern New Jersey. Atlanta, areas in Texas, areas of Florida, and other various areas that I don't recall by June through the years end. I look forward to a possible June August launch in NYC. Some of you impatient Sprint people leaving will regret it. Network vision has been very busy. Do your research before bailing and paying higher fees.
GN will be released in April, and possibly the LG Viper and HTC ONE X. You have waited this long, and a few more months won't hurt. Sprint has a few tricks yet unshown I think. Look before you leap is a phrase that comes to mind.
51. lsutigers (Posts: 710; Member since: 08 Mar 2009)
ALL TRUE PEOPLE...Sprint in in a tough situation right now because they are spending A LOT of money. However, they are doing so to become a much more efficient company and to remain competitive in the market. At some point, as capacity load increases and technology ages and changes all carriers will have to modernize and consolidate their networks, Sprint is choosing to do it now, for many reasons including the much needed decomissioning of iDEN. This is Network Vision with LTE deployment. Sprint will survive, in the meantime, we will likely continue hear these stories until we make it to the other side of the tunnel. There is light at the end of the tunnel. LTE network is being built rapidly, voice and 3G are being upgraded, essentially, Sprint is doing what no other wireless carrier has done, rebuild their network, essentially from scratch. Once Network Vision and LTE deployment is complete, Sprint will have an awesome network and will hopefully continue to offer unlimited data. Sprint is making a very significant LONG TERM investment to remain competitive for many years to come.
Check out www.s4gru.com for Sprint Network Vision / 4G LTE deployment news and you will feel much better about Sprint's plans.
18. Fallout09 (Posts: 413; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Finally, someone who sees Verizon and AT&T LTE data plans the same as me. "I can't wait to use Verizon or AT&T's blazing LTE service so I can zip my way to my data limit in less than half the time!"
40. Tux4g63 (Posts: 115; Member since: 21 Oct 2011)
The only reason I am still on my Verizon contract is grandfathered unlimited data
30. tedkord (Posts: 4507; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
It doesn't matter how many iPhones Sprint sells, as they are a money loser for them. Sprint's losses reached a three year high after offering the iPhone for the first time, even though they added subscribers.
Sprint is considered doomed because they've been posting a quarterly loss every single quarter forever. And, it got worse with the iPhone, because it's such a heavily subsidized phone. Sprint could have more subs than anyone else, but if they keep losing money, they're doomed. It's not a case of competing for first or second, it's a case of bleeding cash constatnly - eventually any company will reach the point where they can't secure any more loans because they owe so much without profits to pay it off.
I for one hope Sprint doesn't die. I want them offereing value so the other carriers have a check on their prices/practices.
35. ngo2dd (Posts: 781; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
They also was able to gain customer. They gain user in Q4. So in the long run that is what they are looking at, they will make money. That is the problem is everyone look at short theme gain and not long time theme.
8. JunitoNH (Posts: 865; Member since: 15 Feb 2012)
Here's the third outcome, and everyone just trying to go around it. Verizon eventually is going to absorb Sprint. Here to the stupid company, who purchased Nextel.
10. arcq12 (Posts: 733; Member since: 13 Oct 2011)
I don't think VZW will buy Sprint. Who would've want to buy a company who's 6-Ft. under its debt? lol
46. jbash (Posts: 339; Member since: 07 Feb 2011)
wont happen fcc already ruled that verizon was at max capacity after the alltell merger and had to sell off some of the marketshare it gained from alltel. if it bought sprint it would gain only its sprectrum and sell its subscriber base off to smaller companies like metropcs, us cellular, cricket, ntelos, etc
9. _PHug_ (Posts: 380; Member since: 11 Oct 2011)
15 Billion over 4 years for the s**tty iPhone?!
They deserve to go bankrupt.
What they should have done was allowed people with a Verizon iPhone to activate it on Sprint's service and offer to pay the early termination fee if they switch to Sprint unlimited.
Verizon and Sprint use the same bands and it would have been alot cheaper than dealing through Apple directly.
As a matter of fact they could have offered existing customers a subsidized Verizon iPhone to not switch and resign a 2 year contract. Again WAY cheaper than paying Apple and keeping customers.
12. arcq12 (Posts: 733; Member since: 13 Oct 2011)
I know that the iPhone is a sh*tty phone but its a business strategy you dumba$$.. That sh*tty phone has been selling awesome since the first iPhone. Who wouldn't want that?
And guess what? Verizon iPhones can't be activated on Sprint and vice-versa. So that being said, you don't make no sense.
14. PAPINYC (Posts: 2237; Member since: 30 Jul 2011)
'Verizon iPhones can't be activated on Sprint and vice-versa. So that being said, you don't make no sense.'
Technically, yes they can. However, Verizon WILL NOT activate an ESN registered to Sprint (or, vice-versa); remember, with CDMA, the ESN and/or IMEI numbers are registered to the respective carrier. Verizon and Sprint will not activate a phone branded to another carrier.
21. _PHug_ (Posts: 380; Member since: 11 Oct 2011)
Get a clue before you go around calling others dumb.
Sprint can activate ANY CDMA phone using the 800/1900 bands, they choose not to since they want you to buy their phones.
A smart person like me would take the idea that T-mobile, Straight Talk, Simple Wireless, Tracphone, Boostmobile and countless others use. ALLOW the competitors phones on your network to keep customers.
It is simple math mister "business strategy" Its far better to make money activating others hardware and keeping your income then paying insane royalties to Apple that end up sending you to the poor house.
You also show your intelligence level and business sense by attacking me without checking your facts.
25. arcq12 (Posts: 733; Member since: 13 Oct 2011)
First, of all mister "smart guy", YES, technically, both VZW and Sprint can activate each other's phones since they both use the same network technology BUT they will not allow you to do that and that is my point. So what you are saying doesn't make sense. Why argue with something you couldn't do? You're just a worm trying to be a butterfly without being in a cocoon.
2nd, 15B for iPhones in 4years, do you think Sprint will do that if it wont be profitable? Hell no. Sprint is getting Gross Adds because of the iPhone. You're thinking out of your personal opinions and thoughts that makes no sense rather than thinking what really is happening.
31. tedkord (Posts: 4507; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
And, with all those gross adds, Sorint posted it's biggest loss in years. The draconian terms they agreed to to get the iPhone may just be the final nail in their coffin.
Yes, they thought it would be profitable - no one make a business decision they think won't be profitable. But, in their position, they have to offer more value to the customer just to stay afloat. Verizon and ATT can absorb the iPhone costs with relative ease, they've got tons of profits, and don't offer as much as Sprint while charging more. Sprint has to charge less, offer more product for that less, and absorb the $15 billoin iPhone costs. Nobody is sure they can do it, and their financial results since getting the iPhone look grim.
These are the facts - since getting the iPhone, Sprint has lost MORE money while adding net subscribers. There's no getting around those facts, no matter how hard you spin.
37. ngo2dd (Posts: 781; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
Biggest lost because they just brought the iphone in Q4 and the broughtout clearwire debt. If you know anything about mobile phone company, they make money around your 18-20 month on contract. Adding net subscribers will add profit in the long run.
22. _PHug_ (Posts: 380; Member since: 11 Oct 2011)
Oh and to address your uniformed statement further.
If you had any reading comprehension skills you would see that I am not advocating iPhone banishment.
I am advocating iPhone acceptance without the huge payments to Apple.
Also the statement is "You don't make ANY sense."
27. arcq12 (Posts: 733; Member since: 13 Oct 2011)
Obviously your statement is anti-iPhone because your thinking that its not worth the 15Billion knowing that its the best selling phone in history.
So you are a complete troll if you ask me.
13. PAPINYC (Posts: 2237; Member since: 30 Jul 2011)
So if they go belly-up, I'll never have to pay them that ETF that I never paid them back in November 2010 when I sold my beloved EVO for a hefty 900% profit then ditched 'Old Yellar'?
♥ EVO, h8t Sprint.
20. Fallout09 (Posts: 413; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Hate to break it to you... Your debt will be sold (most likely already has been) to a OCA to collect on your non paying ass. Pay your F-ing bills dead beat.
38. PAPINYC (Posts: 2237; Member since: 30 Jul 2011)
Ughhhhhh, no and you can't make me.
That's what you get for out-sourcing your Customer Service Calling Centers; so, take that!!
BTW, they already sold the debt: big F'n woooo.... still not paying - HA!!!
49. ngo2dd (Posts: 781; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
their call centers is not outsoucred. Good luck having a good credit score any time soon.
19. darkkjedii (Posts: 10545; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)
Man!!! An LTE iPhone would be awesome.
26. phoneguy2012 (Posts: 3; Member since: 20 Mar 2012)
1. Sprint has plenty of spectrum, and plenty of capacity to on-board tons of customers.
2. Sprint has all the money for network vision along with LTE build out already allocated. Its in Sprints financial report.
3. Sprint has already paid the money to Apple for the devices (same terms as any carrier) Also in Sprints financial report.
4. Its an analyst's opinion.
You can get all of this information if you simply google it. So before you post hate comments please look it up. BTW Verizon LTE crashes every 3rd day because they simply don't have enough spectrum at this time. Why do you think they are begging the feds to let them buy more? When they have all LTE phones there is bound to be capacity issues. You can dislike my comment or blast it all you want, the simple fact of the matter is that at the end of the day Sprint will have retired both legacy networks and deployed a new Quality network that will surprise a lot of people, and in the areas that Network Vision has been deployed it is far exceeding technical expectations. (LTE is not reliant on clearwire or Light sqaured) The lights quared deal was simply a network wholesale agreement between the two companies, and clearwire will be a flash in the pan when LTE and Network vision are fully deployed. This is all happening while Sprint continues to operate offering service plans with unlimited data.
900% profit? so you sold your EVO for $2000 dollars? WOW math must elude you dude.
44. wumberpeb (Posts: 425; Member since: 14 Mar 2011)
Clearwire ran out of money, Lightsquared can't get by the feds, they lose money every month, but companies with smart leaders dig themselves out. Dan Hesse has done a decent job, made some of the right moves, but he didn't buy Nextel. He had no choice wth WiMax and they were 18 months ahead of LTE. Verizon and AT&T have tons more money and they can deal with these types of situations better. Who knows where T-Mobile would be if they didn't have the clause giving them $3 billion, spectrum and roaming agreements from the failed buyout, but Sprint has been around for a while. They'll pull through, but I'll reserve my comments on the apple deal. This may end up saving them, may drive them under, but who can argue that people don't leave a company because they don't have an iPhone?
I believe it, so we'll see...
45. Whateverman (Posts: 3189; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Why hate on VZW? Sure it's been down a few times, but falling back on VZW's 3G is like using Sprint's WiMAX. IDK, maybe WiMAX is really fast in some places and just more congested where I live. But I was really shocked to see my wife's little HTC Incredible simply DOGWALKING a friends Evo.
The way I see it, the iPhone may have taken a lot of customers from Sprint but their line up and the lack of advertising and even the lack of knowledge was Sprints biggest detriment. Sprint hung its hat on one phone and one phone alone...the Evo! Even now if you check their website, theyre still pushing Evo's for a hundred bucks. They advertised the heck out of the Evo, but left the Epic to fin for itself. I can't remember one Epic 4G commercial, Epic Touch commercial, or even a commercial for the Photon. But what are they advertising really hard right now? Yep! The phone that everyone already knows exist...the iPhone. Apple has the best marketing department of any smartphone maker, they don't need Sprints help. If Sprint wanted to keep their customers, they should have invested more in Android from the very beginning. Maybe NOT put the Evo name on every HTC device and get a few more high end devices like the Rezound, the Razr, Infuse, or even the Note. Then use that 15 billion to build out their LTE network so that when they really ready, the iPhone 5, 5S or whatever would have a decent network to run on. Not saying I have all the answers, but they could have been a lot smarter about NOT having the iPhone, instead of just getting it before they were ready.
53. lsutigers (Posts: 710; Member since: 08 Mar 2009)
It really depends where you live. For work, I carry a Sprint Motorola Photon 4G and pull 6 - 10mbps consistently on WiMAX and until recently 600kbps on 3G but as of this month its now 1.2 - 2mbps on 3G. I also carry a Verizon Motorola Droid RAZR and pull 8 - 14mbps consistently on LTE and more like 300 - 600kbps consistently on 3G. It all depends on the market.
36. ironmarc89 (Posts: 37; Member since: 22 Jan 2012)
Bottom line: Sprint is in Trouble. Yes they are reasonable in price but their network is a joke. Their coverage is a joke. The 3G speed, which you will be on. Majority of the time, is sole as hell. Like .4 Mbit/sec. Most people have Sprint because its not as hard to get on as Verizon and ATT. Also what's the point of Unlimited data when coverage is so bad, ur roaming most of the time and it isn't unlimited then. Its 300 MB. I have ATT but if they wanna come back, they need a new captain of that ship because they one they have now is sinking
54. lsutigers (Posts: 710; Member since: 08 Mar 2009)
Dude, I travel across the country with 4G phones from VZW and Sprint and that coverage claim is simply not true. Look at my post above, Sprint is improving their 3G network even ahead of their Network Vision / LTE deployment. I get coverage is 95% of places with Sprint than with Verizon. In some areas, Sprint coverage is actually stronger, and viceversa. Every carrier has deadspots...That old claim that anything but Verizon is a joke doesnt hold water anymore, it used to be a big part of their marketing when I worked for VZW, however, it has never been true.
47. jbash (Posts: 339; Member since: 07 Feb 2011)
I have spoke with an engineer that is part of the development and implementaion of LTE for clear. He showed me some of the numbers his engineering aircard pulled in on a LTE tower in AZ pretty impresive stuff, albiet nobody was on the network but cool stuff
50. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)
Sprint customers will still upgrade to the new LTE iPhone when it comes out. Most of them won't switch. Like Commentator said, college students are looking to pinch a penny and Sprint offers a good price and unlimited data.
Also, QWIKSTRIKE is correct, as well. Sprint will still have some LTE up soon, if not a lot. But most likely a lot. The new iPhone will probably be coming out near the end of the year, hopefully around November. I think Sprint will be fine.
56. Forsaken77 (Posts: 547; Member since: 09 Jun 2011)
I'll say it again.... The only way I see Sprint or Tmobile being able to launch a successful lte network is if both stop being nationwide carriers. Tmobile take from the middle to the east coast and Sprint from the middle to the west coast. Trade resources that aren't in their areas anymore and slowly build themselves back up.
58. bigdaddygresh (Posts: 1; Member since: 21 Mar 2012)
My belief is that in time Sprint will not only survive, but flourish. No doubt they wish they were in a better place right now, but they know how to do business the right way. Sprint LTE will come very quick. Why? Their life depends on it! Sprint has definitely taken some hits this past decade, but their business model is correct and will provide long-term success: great relationships with mfg bringing flagship phones 1st or quickly after the comp, simple and unlimited pricing will always make sense, great customer service especially for small business, and tapping into their core fans with advantages such as the upcoming "direct connect" app to appease and re establish the diehard nextel fans moving forward. The app we would all love to have and love to hate, but you know deep down inside we miss the chirp just a bit! Godspeed Sprint!
59. TechnoTechyes (Posts: 56; Member since: 24 Jan 2011)
It all really depends on the consequences of data limits. If ATT/Verizon customers are always using WiFi, then what does it matter if Sprint customers are doing the same. Even if Sprint is only 3G, unlimited data is their niche. On Sprint, you never have to hover around Starbucks, out of fear of running out of data.
LTE Speed: 24Mbs (or 10 Gb/hr)
That means with a 2Gb cap, 12 minutes of data and you used your month's allocation.
Not saying that any phone apps need 24Mbs, but when they don't what is the big plus with LTE?
So, this means people will still mostly use WiFi (except when they need to be on the road). And in such a world, everybody is equal. Sprint might even have the advantage. I've already had a friend on Verizon say we should use my phone for navigation, because I have unlimited data, and he doesn't.