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Judge faults Samsung over deleted emails; Apple says Samsung seeks too much in royalties

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Judge faults Samsung over deleted emails; Apple says Samsung seeks too much in royalties
"We intend to appeal Judge Grewal's decision to the trial judge, and if necessary, to the Court of Appeals. Samsung remains committed to complying with all information requests from the court."-Samsung statement
Federal Judge Paul Grewal would ground Samsung and take away its cell phone if it could, for failing to save email that was expected to be used as evidence in its patent trial against Apple. Samsung automatically deletes all emails older than two weeks and failed to disable the system for those emails that were considered to be evidence. The reason for the automatic deletion is to prevent sensitive information from being leaked. As it is, Judge Grewal has sanctioned Samsung and has consented to Apple's request for an "adverse jury instruction" to be read to the jurors. The jurors will be informed that the Korean based manufacturer had failed to live up to its obligation to preserve evidence.

In ruling in favor of Apple in regard to the adverse jury instructions, the judge said Samsung "acted with conscious disregard of its obligations, or willfully" in not disabling the automatic email erasure system. He also said that Samsung should have known that Apple would have sued over patents relating to smartphones and tablets and should have kept all corresponding email. The trial starts July 30th.

"Samsung's royalty demands are multiple times more than Apple has paid any other patentees for licenses to their declared-essential patent portfolios."-Apple
Apple also was vocal on Wednesday, saying that Samsung's demand for 2.4% of the entire selling price of Apple's mobile products is higher than the royalty that the Cupertino based tech giant pays for licensing other patents, and is higher than any royalty or licensing fee that Samsung has ever received for its IP. One of the big issues to be decided in court is the value of Samsung's standards-essential patents. These are patents that Samsung has agreed to have licensed on "fair and reasonable" terms in return for becoming industry standards. Many judges will not issue an injunction on these patents.

While Samsung is asking for 2.4% of the full selling price of each Apple mobile device, Apple says it should pay Samsung less than half a cent for each patent infringement it committed. Samsung said the 2.4% it is asking for is consistent with what other companies pay for royalty fees. Apple has not made a counter-offer and instead Apple has refused to negotiate a settlement and has not paid Samsung anything for the use of the latter's standards-essential technology.

source: Reuters

44 Comments
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posted on 25 Jul 2012, 23:10 15

1. wendygarett (unregistered)


Meanwhile consumer here is getting MAD about Apple unfair competition :(

posted on 25 Jul 2012, 23:27 14

2. Techvue (Posts: 10; Member since: 25 Jul 2012)


I don't understand why Apple is claiming that Samsung cut into their sales... Do they really think they own the market on clueless consumers?
I am pretty sure most people know what they are buying, and some clueless people (0.01%) might have bought a Samsung by accident, but why does Apple want this consumer group so much?
Who cares what something looks like. Cars often look the similar, TVs look similar, Refrigerators look the similar.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 00:06 12

5. MorePhonesThanNeeded (Posts: 645; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)


Apple still will have to prove to a judge that people are this incompetent that they would think a Galaxy S phone is an iPhone considering that you could only get iPhones from Apples' site or ATT in the U.S. I find that any court or jury would willfully find this to be a viable reason that Apple should get anything. When iPhone was at it's peak people were lining up to buy one, if you went through some back channels and ended up with a Galaxy S then that is your problem for being a sucker. I have no idea how this is even going to be argued, but knowing Apple's lawyers these guys can make anything sound good.

Apple want Samsung to pay 2.5billion, but want to complain that Samsung is asking for too much in royalties? I wonder if that last part is true, considering that it's a FRAND patent, Samsung would have to have HUGE balls to try something like that knowing that they have to defend this in court. Time will tell all I guess, for right now we need judges to stop letting garbage roll, all tablets look the bloody same, iPad is white with one button at the bottom, everyone else is shaped similarly but come in different sizes and many have multiple colors, none sport an Apple on the back. No idiot is going fooled considering that Apple has their own kiosks/sections in any retailer that sells their devices...how can they get away with such crap complaints is beyond me and right down the line of plain BS judgements.

I'm going into a dealership to by a BMW 3 series but from a distance the Hyuandai Elantra looks simarly, am I going to buy the car without actually examining the device or FFS not asking for a 3 Series BMW in the first place? Lawyers are good at arguments but somethings just boggles the mind, common sense dictates that no one does this unless they are old and can't tell the difference up close, but that is on the salesman not the manufacturer. Courts need common sense judgements, Apples look alike case is pure case of common sense and should have been rolled up and used to beat Apple upside the head for wasting the courts time.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 00:38 3

7. networkdood (Posts: 6326; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)


Especially since in the states the Galaxy S captivate was/is nothing like, THANK GOD, an iphone 3G or 4 model.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:02 3

13. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


That's not actually what they're saying. It's not about consumers not knowing the difference. It's about making your product so similar you're making money off of Apple's R&D and hard work.

Samsing isn't competing fairly and that's why they keep losing cases.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:45 8

19. D.Aceveda (Posts: 366; Member since: 30 Jun 2012)


Keep smoking the Apple bong. Your comments make you more and more of an Apple fan boy every time you post.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:51 2

21. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


My comments are backed up by a bunch of cases Samsung has lost.

It's obvious why a company would try to prevent another from making their products look the same. Obvious to anyone that's thinking with an open mind anyway.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 03:06 7

24. D.Aceveda (Posts: 366; Member since: 30 Jun 2012)


Who's lost lol? Apple has had its share of cases thrown out. Nobody has "Won" anything. You really can't be this dumb can you?

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 03:07 2

25. Pancholo (Posts: 377; Member since: 27 Feb 2012)


Having an open mind implies that you must have thought about every single, non-biased option and/or scenario that places both companies in different shoes, right? Otherwise, Apple owns the Devil's advocates and they are obviously good.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 06:45 2

30. jacko1977 (Posts: 400; Member since: 11 Feb 2012)


but apple dont R&D they just copy other peoples ideas

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 11:52

39. jmoita2 (Posts: 930; Member since: 23 Dec 2011)


Actually, they do!!! lol

posted on 25 Jul 2012, 23:49 10

3. quikric (Posts: 9; Member since: 05 Sep 2011)


I just can't stand apple.
This whole patent suing thing is completely out of control.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 00:45 5

9. E.N. (Posts: 2362; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)


Samsung is playing pretty dirty too. Burying evidence is illegal

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 01:12 7

11. quikric (Posts: 9; Member since: 05 Sep 2011)


Dont bet apple isn't doing the same, and which one started this whole shebang?

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:03 3

14. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


Where's your source for Apple hiding evidence?

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 03:15 8

27. quikric (Posts: 9; Member since: 05 Sep 2011)


You're right, apple has never done anything wrong, or "borrowed" tech ever.
Right........
Didn't they create the mobile phone?
Sorry, personal preference, I just don't like their practices, nor their exploitation of cheap labor, and while they aren't alone in this, you don't hear of suicides in other OEM factories.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 03:27 8

28. quikric (Posts: 9; Member since: 05 Sep 2011)


And I never said apple was hiding evidence, just said don't bet their not.
It seems this BS all started when Samsung sales started rising so high as to be threatening to apple.
If you love apple great buy an apple, but this practice of trying to ban a competitors product to limit consumer's choice sucks.

posted on 25 Jul 2012, 23:50 14

4. remixfa (Posts: 14169; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


oooh.. apple's hypocracy..

"samsung owes us 2 billion for "lost profit from lack of iphone sales". Really? How is a sales downturn Samsung's fault other than they are OUT CLASSING you in ever way through android and hardware?? You dont get to keep your competition's money when consumers buy their products instead of yours.

"Samsung wants too much money. We think the max should be 0.05 cents per HANDSET at the HIGHEST. We havent been paying a penny and would actually prefer to keep it that way.... oh.. and dont forget we want 2 billion from samsung while were at it for making high selling competing products!" - apple

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 00:39 8

8. tedkord (Posts: 5278; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Be fair. Apple was only using actual tech someone else invented that no cell phone would work without. Meanwhile Samsung was stealing really valuable, innovative things like rectangles and icon grids...

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:16 4

17. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


Apple is using tech that Samsung agreed to license at a fair price.

Apple's technology isn't part of FRAND and they don't have to license it. They have spent billions on R&D to differentiate their products. Obviously it's valuable technology since everyone is copying Apple.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 03:56 5

29. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5954; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


Yet Apple hasn't paid Sammy one thin dime for the Sammy patents it is using in the iDevices. Who is abusing whose IP?

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 11:52 1

38. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


They haven't agreed to a price. Samsung is trying to extort Apple for a ridiculous price. Apple will pay for FRAND patents.

It does look like Samsung is in a lot of trouble based on Apple saying they can provide evidence of Samsung and it's partners admitting to the galaxy series copying Apple.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 07:52 1

33. 50taco (banned) (Posts: 5; Member since: 26 Jul 2012)


yes yes this a thousands times!!! You are SO right! When will you fools learn! if its made by others and is essential to making a phone then its FRAND, if it's made by apple and its essential (the shape, gestures, slide to unlock ect) then shut up! apple made it and they're keeping it. I mean no one else spends millions in R&D but apple.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 08:32 1

35. Fallout09 (Posts: 419; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Apple spent millions in R&D on Shapes, Gestures and Slide to unlock? Now, I understand why Apple want Samsung to pay 2.5 billion. It seems the only way they are going to get their money back for things that already existed for over a thousand years. R&D for Shapes, Gestures and Slide to unlock.... really?

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 11:54 1

40. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


Yes really, how come no one was using those designs before Apple? No one was using the gestures and slide to unlock either. Those things aren't essential to making a smartphone so Apple doesn't have to license it.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 19:04

43. Pdubb (Posts: 239; Member since: 08 Aug 2011)


The only way something becomes essential is that everyone uses that thing. There could be other options but those options are not optimum usually. Phones could be made without 3g but how good would they be? I guess LTE or Wimax could be used in place but how good would that phone be right now? Samsung spent millions in R&D and licensed those patents in the beginning with other companies that were also bringing their tech to the table. Now that the table is set and everything has been laid out Apple wants to be a part but not offer anything and also dictate the terms. Seems a bit unfair even considering FRAND.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 14:21 1

41. donfem (Posts: 554; Member since: 30 Mar 2011)


Spent billions on Sony look alike you mean

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 00:09 4

6. zhypher_23 (Posts: 195; Member since: 04 Jun 2012)


It's funny how Apple is stating that they lost sales because of Samsung, come on Apple get over it! If someone's gonna be better than you in some category, you have to do something else, not just sue, and ask for some cash, that's a retarded move btw. Make some innovation for christ sakes, innovate! innvoate! god damnit stop sueing cause people all around the world are watching your every move. Just admit that Samsung is better than you because they provide your "PARTS" for you, trust me you would be nothing without them :))

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 01:11

10. joey18 (Posts: 548; Member since: 20 Jul 2010)


Company invest alot money then other copy your stuff samsung need to pay let see apple stop making the iphone to untill samsung stop bien copycat where is all american jobs in china so american companys they still in china making china big rich country all the shiet came from there bad profuct copy for years we sieng this and no body stop. Say we need good electronics not 2 days electronics last year when to mexico old factorys closet why china is there all stuff they can sale here is there so why the only fail on this is the goverment they fail for long time

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:31 2

18. Pancholo (Posts: 377; Member since: 27 Feb 2012)


I hope you are an 8-year-old typing really bad English, or have it as a second language. I am not trying to be a grammar police a-hole or implying anything bad about you. I am just concerned about your future.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 01:19 4

12. droidnator (Posts: 87; Member since: 10 Mar 2011)


I hate Apple. They act like a vicitim here, but they started this whole sh*t. It doesn't matter how guilty Samsung are, Apple started the patent war, so it's their fault in the first place! Apple's hypocracy has no end!

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:04 4

15. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


Wow Samsing is playing really dirty by heading evidence. It makes them look even more guilty. Why destroy evidence Samsung? Obviously they have something to hide.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:46 2

20. D.Aceveda (Posts: 366; Member since: 30 Jun 2012)


Maybe because they didn't destroy evidence? Do you not read?

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:52 2

22. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)


Did you read?

"Judge faults Samsung over deleted emails"

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 03:07 3

26. D.Aceveda (Posts: 366; Member since: 30 Jun 2012)


Did you read?

"the judge is upset at the Korean based manufacturer for having certain email deleted automatically"

What part of that is Samsung hiding evidence?

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 07:55

34. 50taco (banned) (Posts: 5; Member since: 26 Jul 2012)


oh yes samsung is playing really dirty and heading that evidence. Why are you giving head to that evidence samsung? why!? Naughty corporation.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 14:22 1

42. donfem (Posts: 554; Member since: 30 Mar 2011)


Could you please proof read before posting. inut

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:12

16. rudlie (Posts: 182; Member since: 13 Mar 2012)


Samsung galaxy design is designed by LAWYER :)

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 02:54 2

23. Pancholo (Posts: 377; Member since: 27 Feb 2012)


Apple is really good at building hype, no doubt. Clearly, people continue feeding off that.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 07:28 1

31. rob5150 (Posts: 130; Member since: 31 Oct 2011)


ive owned 3 different androids. samsung captivate. samsung infuse 4g and now samsung galaxy s3. each time id pull my phone out to use at a pub or party id get people saying... what is that phone? its screen is gorgeous. wow its so big. these people were iphone owners. obviously, these phones are made different,look different and act different.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 07:42

32. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 6737; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)


Are you serious? How bout U APPLE SEEKING 2 billion dollars? Just because your stock drop. Just to show everyone how ignorant Apple really is.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 08:36 2

36. AlanB412 (Posts: 31; Member since: 23 Jul 2012)


This court case is like a great soap opera lol. When it all wraps up someone needs to make a blow for blow recap of it all. My favorite part is still when Sammy was all like "We released our first phone 20 YEARS before your mobile department even existed! I ain't your daddy, I'm your grandpa!"

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 09:48 1

37. Roomaku (Posts: 278; Member since: 06 Feb 2012)


All of this is stupid Apple and Samsung both make good phones and they should just go back to doing that, damn it! Apple needs to stop acting like some insane person on the street screaming that there rectangle looks like the other rectangle. Samsung designs may look a little close and parts of it's UI may be more then a little similar, but honestly Apple is going to change people from remembering Apple as the company that introduced iTunes, the iPhone and other "innovative" products. Instead they'll be that company that took practically every other phone manufacturer under the sun to court.... Come on Apple you make nice products (not for everyone i understand) you don't need to pick on other companies if you really are bigger and better let your products prove it or not.

posted on 26 Jul 2012, 19:07

44. Pdubb (Posts: 239; Member since: 08 Aug 2011)


I wonder which it is for Apple? They said on their earnings call the slip in sales for the iPhone was due to anticipation for the next iPhone. Now they are saying that is is due to Samsung.

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