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It's not stealing when Apple does it, because it wasn't stealing when Google did it either

0. phoneArena 13 Jun 2013, 16:17 posted on

Every time there are new features announced for iOS, there is an uproar around the web about Apple "stealing" features. I have talked before about why I think this is a silly argument, but I wanted to put up a refresher on the idea, because the claims simply won't die out. Here's the simple reason: it's not stealing when Apple does it, because it wasn't stealing when Google did it either...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:37 2

127. phatcow (Posts: 18; Member since: 13 Jun 2013)


So you are ignoring the fact that Apple tries to own what isn't theirs? That is petty...

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:41

213. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Again, when was the last time Apple sued someone over a patent when Apple wasn't being sued back? You're talking about the Steve Jobs Apple, not the Tim Cook Apple.

Oh, and BTW, "owning what isn't theirs" is the definition of a patent, and that fault is with the USPTO.

posted on 19 May 2016, 10:39

243. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 12303; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


Not when the marketing is a lie.

When you claim you own something, that you actually don't; then its a lie and it isn't petty. After all you would be taking credit for something that si not yours to begin with.

Its like if I am the assistant to a CEO. He has all these great ideas for how to run the company, but all those ideas are actually things I suggested to him/her. They get the credit and continue to make millions of dollars, while I sit back and get nothign and it was my idea.

Would you like that? Because that si exactly what you're saying. You saying just OK for someone to stand in the public eye and lie and claim this belongs to them, when it doesn't. And they use these stolen ideas to make lots of money through marketing this as their own. But you say its PETTY?

SERIOUSLY?! - Spiderman....lol

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:27

119. jimjam (Posts: 304; Member since: 28 Jun 2011)


Yes but there is a difference between using something from a desktop or other unrelated system and using something directly from a similar competitor product. Apple copying from wp8, webbos and android is a direct copy from competing OSes.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:29

121. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Is there?

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:48

146. jimjam (Posts: 304; Member since: 28 Jun 2011)


Yes
Different applications and different medium. Not saying that it is totally right and of course there may be issues with brands, patents etc. but ripping from equivalent competitor products is just the worst.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:46

214. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)


So, if I were to do a comic book version of "Slaughterhouse 5", I wouldn't have to obtain the copyright from Kurt Vonnegut, right? Different application, different medium.

And, I'll ask you since nobody else has given an answer: what other options are there? How would you propose Apple or WP (which will soon have it) design a notification center on a smartphone that doesn't look like Android? There are limited options with the hardware we have, and smartphone OSes are young enough that we're still just figuring out what the base feature sets should be. Notification centers, quick settings toggles, etc are all necessary features for a mobile OS. Or, how would you propose Apple change the design of a calendar or calculator app, which have had standardized views since the days of paper?

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:29

122. jellmoo (Posts: 1864; Member since: 31 Oct 2011)


Very nice article that makes some great points. As hard as it is to believe, the modern smartphone era (and let's be honest, it started with the launch of the first iPhone) is only about 6+ years old. 6+ years, and look at how much the industry has changed, evolved, and grown. Like it or not, each manufacturer and ecosystem has borrowed pretty heavily from one another in that time. Sure, a lot of mistakes were made, and Apple got overly litigious along the way (though they are not alone in that, just the most obvious culprit) but the reward for us as consumers has been some very awesome stuff.

I'm an admitted WebOS and MeeGo fan, and think it sucks that neither is around anymore because I loved what they did. That being said, it's still cool to see other groups recognize what made those systems great and get inspiration from them. Not everything is about 100% innovation. A lot of polish and emphasis on user experience can take a great idea and make it better.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:35

126. phatcow (Posts: 18; Member since: 13 Jun 2013)


Here is the problem with iOS. With android and the nature of open source the idea of innovation by bettering past or current technology is established. With iOS they do steal by stealing the credit. The way they express the self is to come off as to creators. That is the real theft. I find iOS fan boys to go along like this. When Samsung obviously tried to copy but yet in their way perfect the iPhone design in their galaxy one there was an uproar of android stealing Apples design. Was there an article explaining that its not stealing because apple too made things that already exist? Nope, in fact they were sued for more than 2 billion dollars. Then when tables turn iOS lovers protect apple and say its ok. Another example, apple patented the slide one image to a predetermined area to unlock. Sued oems and caused huge mess. Now they have lock screen that just straight up mocks windows and android and we are to be fine? You are trying to level the playing field by making google sound just as bad but apple is the one that feels the pressure. You can judge by their busy strategies and how they are now doing what Mr. jobs wouldn't have as many say. I am not a fanboy. I have an iOS, macOS, windows, Linux, android and webOS devices and other random is devices and I appreciate what each does. But I find this article to be ignorant that I couldn't read past a few paragraphs. Even the title I knew this is and iOS defensive article. Sorry if there are mistakes, typing on and iPAd...

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:43

129. lonestrider (Posts: 88; Member since: 31 Mar 2012)


It's just... Apple fanboy vs Android fanboy.
Just say, no one is stealing.

Then, let's say. iOS7's new feature is an usual feature in current Android version.
That's all.

Hats off for Steve Jobs. His presentation really looks promising and amazing. Every word and feature he introduced really looks like an amazing new feature and will change the world. That's why iPhone become so legendary.
Tim Cook can't copy that.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:44 1

130. DerryAhmad (Posts: 281; Member since: 05 May 2012)


I don't know whether Apple copy from other OSs or not.
One thing for sure, IOS7 doesn't have any real innovation and Apple is just playing catch up with those 'new' features.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:44

131. TBomb (Posts: 797; Member since: 28 Dec 2012)


I think what the big problem is, is that Apple calls it "theirs" and uses a special type of wording that makes it sound like they invented it, but don't mean it that way... and I think they do it on purpose. As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, other comanies will be like "Well, we added 'Feature X'. Enjoy" where Apple would say "We created this new 'Feature X' for the iPhone." when 'Feature X' has been around for ages. And I realize it's marketing... good marketing in fact because it's clearly working.... but it's like a psychological marketing that makes all non-iphone users mad when they use it.

Again, Correct me if I'm wrong.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:49 1

215. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Okay, I'll play along. So, Apple says "We created this new 'Feature X' for the iPhone." What would you rather they said? "Google used this 'Feature X' (which was created by Palm, and Microsoft before it) and we liked it, so we're using it too."?

When Apple adds something to iOS, of course they're going to say they created it, because they did the coding. They're going to call it "new", because it is new for iOS and its users.

No company ever gives credit to the originator of an idea, why would you get angry at Apple for not doing it?

posted on 02 Jul 2013, 11:14

233. rcl4444 (Posts: 40; Member since: 06 Oct 2012)


It's not about giving credit where it's due (nice idea, just never going to happen), it's about taking additional credit for themselves that's not.

Instead of intentionally implying they created or invented something they could say "As a first for iPhone we have brought 'Feature X' to iOS7"...or "...As an iPhone first we now give you 'Feature X' in iOS7"

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:45 1

132. lumialove (Posts: 75; Member since: 16 May 2012)


I think that the credit shouldn't be given to Wright brothers too,bcos they copied it from birds.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:09

136. Whateverman (Posts: 3283; Member since: 17 May 2009)


Nice article Michael!!!
Apple definitely copied their OS, that's just the word I use instead of saying they we"re very, very heavily influenced by other OSs. But I don't think any of these companies are "stealing" either. You hit the nail on the head with this one. Thank you sir!

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:51

147. jimjam (Posts: 304; Member since: 28 Jun 2011)


copying = stealing in this context

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:19

138. rocketlog (Posts: 26; Member since: 31 Jan 2012)


I don't have any problem with the stealing part, or borrowing, inspiration, copying, whatever it goes by nowadays. Adapting innovations and trying to improve them is how technology moves forward.

The problem is lawsuits. More lawsuits means more legal expenses and more legal expenses means higher prices. I don't think anyone here wants prices to be higher if it can be avoided. I hope Tim Cook's aversion to legal action will soon rub off on other companies.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:52

148. jimjam (Posts: 304; Member since: 28 Jun 2011)


Except apple didn't adapt anything or improve anything. They just copied them as is and rebranded them and passed them off as apple innovation.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:50

216. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)


I'd say the Apple notification center is a definite improvement over Android. The quick settings aren't the best design, but it's nicer to have the brightness slider and such right there than just a link to the settings menu.

posted on 15 Jun 2013, 22:23

228. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)


Michael..check again...on Android 4.2.2 there are two drop down notification section. The right one reveals quick setting, which include Bluetooth, brightness, etc., all there ready to change...plus you can have a widget on any screen. I wonder if you really do use Android.

posted on 02 Jul 2013, 11:07

232. rcl4444 (Posts: 40; Member since: 06 Oct 2012)


Michael, networkdood is right about 4.2.2.

Regardless overall I do agree that Apple has done a very nice implementation of both the Notification and Settings areas, and that it's better than Android.

However if not in 4.3 than in 5.0 Android will likely improve their notifications to something better again.
(And just to stir the trolls...) I wonder if Apple will try to sue them should they make it opaque...?

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:23 1

139. PhoneCritic (Posts: 704; Member since: 05 Oct 2011)


Mike well written article. However, I think what many are saying here should not be missed. If Tim Cook wanted to he could reign in the lawyers with a simple phone call and certainly work things out with Samsung also with a simple phone call. ( Mind you we are not priv to this type of info. for all we know this could be taking place). Prior to WWDC Apple management made some big statements about it's new os design and defending it vigorously any one who tried to copy it.

That alone was a very scary statement once iOS 7 was shown, So much of it comes from what others had already implemented. So will Apple patent control center and quick toggles plus pull down notification and then sue everyone else for having these features ( even thought they had them for years and the USPTO track record seems to temporarily always side Apple forgetting about all prior art)?

Based on these statements I am not so sure that we won't witness Apple not filing silly lawsuits anytime soon. I certainly hope Tim slows down the proceedings.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:54

218. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Prior to WWDC, a financial analyst predicted that Apple would start up lawsuits over iOS 7, there was no word from Apple on the subject, and no indication they will sue over anything.

As I've said in other places, I don't know that Tim Cook can stop the Samsung lawsuits at this point, because by now Samsung is causing just as much trouble as Apple.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:38

142. carlos5593 (Posts: 28; Member since: 23 Jun 2012)


You said that apple has not filled any claims since cook has been in office right? Now, I'll like to invite you to check out technobuffalo where they clearly have apple claiming Google now infringed their patent and a request to add the s4 for the new Apple - Samsung case coming in 2014

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:52

217. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)


As I've said many times, at this point Samsung and Apple are equally at fault in that mess. Apple has requested to add the S4 because Samsung requested to add the iPhone 5.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:59

151. ntsiotinos (Posts: 16; Member since: 18 Nov 2011)


Well written. It is indeed true that there is nothing new under the sun. Everything that humans do is MOSTLY a rework of a previous idea and perhaps an improvement. That is how our society survives and we as a species is surviving. We need to adapt. It is no different for businesses, they need to adapt to the prevailing business conditions or die.

Everyone knows that all of the mobile businesses have copied each other to get to where they are. It is an essential part of survival and accepted as such.

That is why everyone became so enraged at Apple when they pretended to invent everything and went on the lawpath to damage competitors.

Now that they are blatantly "borrowing" ideas and playing catch up, it is no wonder that people are up in arms.

IF it is true that Tim Cook has seen the error of their litigious ways and is now refocussing on delivering innovation as opposed to litigation to compete, then that is a win for everyone.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:57

219. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Let's imagine that Apple didn't "borrow" ideas. What options are left? How would you propose they design these solutions (like a notifications center and quick settings) that NEED to be a part of any mobile OS? These are basic feature sets of a mobile OS. What other option is there? Leave them out completely? Design a worse way to offer the functionality, like a notification center app that you have to back out of what you're doing to launch?

There are limited design options on the hardware we have. What would you suggest Apple, or any other company do, other than "borrow" ideas?

posted on 02 Jul 2013, 10:58

231. rcl4444 (Posts: 40; Member since: 06 Oct 2012)


Until iOS6 & 7 Apple DID leave all these features out!

No one expects any manufacturer to say 'we borrowed' or 'copied'. Its that Apple intentionally imply they invented or created something that already exists. Yes, it may be a first for iPhone and so strictly speaking it can be said they have 'created' it for iPhone...however if they did not want to intentionally foster such false beliefs they could instead say 'As a first for iPhone we have brought feature X to iOS7'...

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 21:19

153. Taters (banned) (Posts: 6474; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


I am pretty sure the Galaxy S3 and Galaxy S4 just doesn't add itself to product ban lists. So of course Apple are still being hypocrites. The worse thing is that they even sue Samsung for software in Nexus devices, which us software created by Google, not Samsung.

I am sorry but if you support Apple's actions, you are a disgusting human being.

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