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It's not stealing when Apple does it, because it wasn't stealing when Google did it either

0. phoneArena 13 Jun 2013, 16:17 posted on

Every time there are new features announced for iOS, there is an uproar around the web about Apple "stealing" features. I have talked before about why I think this is a silly argument, but I wanted to put up a refresher on the idea, because the claims simply won't die out. Here's the simple reason: it's not stealing when Apple does it, because it wasn't stealing when Google did it either...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:48

105. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Yes, and what you're describing is my hatred of fanboyism, which is mostly directed against Apple around here. If we had more Android haters spouting idiotic arguments, I'd have to write more articles with that bend, but we don't (aside from Mxy of course).

Those were the kinds of articles I wrote when I first got here, because the readership was more Apple fanboys than Android. Our readership has changed.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 21:54

160. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)


And taco gallitoking™

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:16

137. Slammer (Posts: 1515; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)


Who do we blame in the game of marketing? The one who markets, or the one who buys into it? Apple has played the game well. I've been on both sides of the teams. Even though I have my reasons for not relying on Apple anymore to conduct everyday living, Apple does a lot of things well. But, so does Android. I personally love the open platform of Android. It simply works the best for me. However,I have colleagues that have been 20+ year veterans of Apple and won't switch.

As far as tech sites such as Phonearena, I think we will all find faults with some sort of media news coverage due to differences of opinions. I do feel media hubs "SHOULD" be unbiased, but, the media is run by humans and humans have emotions. We get caught up in our personal choices or beliefs and can easily transcend to articles. But, articles can also be props for readers that use strawman tactics to elevate their own beliefs.

It would be so awesome to see people debating the editors of these sites such as Michael with mature, articulate, and logical arguments, rather than using childish dialect to unsuccessfully convey a feasible point of debate due to lack of factual, backing information.

John B.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:54

71. android_sucks (Posts: 111; Member since: 28 Jul 2011)


This is a very well said article. I agree totally!!! Thanks for sharing!!

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:50 1

107. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Thanks! (Although I wholeheartedly disagree with your username)

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:58 4

73. deathgod (Posts: 122; Member since: 23 Nov 2011)


If Tim Cook was really against lawsuits like he said, why not reach an agreement with Samsung to drop the lawsuits and have each company pay their own lawyers fee? I'm sure as CEO he could have convinced the investors that the money spent on the lawsuits would be better allocated elsewhere, maybe in R&D.

Apple are just hypocrites, they can implement others ideas into their work and its OK, but if/when the reverse happens, the hammer comes down. Are there any Android manufactures that have initiated a lawsuit on the grounds that they had it first?

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:52 1

110. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


I wish I knew the answer to that. The best I can guess is that the lawsuits in progress are more in the hands of the lawyers at this point, and even if Tim wanted to stop them he couldn't. Either that or Samsung doesn't have any interest in stopping the suits either since it has been winning more recently.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 01:07

181. Vendetta (Posts: 2; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)


Tim Cook is getting the point that they were wrong before and are now. But they won many times. Now, he knows that there is no more place for apple to win the patent war anymore. Apple is not a thief, it is the LEECH. APPLE the Great LEECH.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:42

144. Slammer (Posts: 1515; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)


---" Apple are just hypocrites, they can implement others ideas into their work and its OK, but if/when the reverse happens, the hammer comes down."---

While I agree with this, we need to question the judicial system. The medical and jusdicial system are the two largest cash cows in this country. If the court system has its way, the revenues will keep flowing through litigation and very wealthy corporations such as Apple, will take full advantage of the situation if they feel it stands a chance to win. Business write offs are every day practices.

John B.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:00 2

75. Googler (Posts: 813; Member since: 10 Jun 2013)


I clearly remember both Samsung and Apple being told to work out their differences but Apple refused to do so, under Tim Cook's leadership. Maybe it's a difficult Google or Apple has been in court so much it's easy to overlook who started what, but what is crystal clear is Apple has done little to nothing to stem the ongoing court cases they are currently in. Thoughts of them wanting to pay Samsung pennies for use of their patents while demanding $24 in return for generic patents held by Apple come to mind. Maybe you're right about them not starting anything in the last two years, but it's hard to care when they've been so draconian and dirty with the cases they are in. Total banning of a competitors products over generic, poorly issued patents is hardly something to just idly forget or forgive.

And the saddest part is this article could be well received, it if wasn't for the way Apple has acted the past 4 years in court. If Apple really wanted to impress people, they'd settle the Samsung case out of court like adults. Maybe then people will stop looking at Apple as hypocrites. Maybe.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:04 1

77. MartyK (Posts: 846; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)


Okay, now you're just splitting hair....
1. Your started with Steve arguement--all Tim have to do is tell them to drop it (lawsuit).

2. Your NEW vs Unique argument..Bull!!, just because the IFan have never witness anything else do not mean people like yourself ( Tech site) should give them a pass.

3.NO COMPANY ever accuse another company of stealing tell Apple brought their corrupt brand of competition to the mobile world; mobile world use to be peaceful and enjoyable.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:08

81. Stuntman (Posts: 836; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)


Michael hit the nail on the head with this article. The reason that Apple gets criticised about its new features copying Android and others has a lot to do with the law suits that Apple filed while Steve Jobs was leading the company. It is true that Tim Cook has taken the reigns and has not tried to continue the "thermonuclear" war that Jobs declared on Android. This thermonuclear legacy of Jobs is something that Apple under Cook is still unable to shake. Jobs will be remembered by many as the person who brought Apple from extinction to the position it is in today. Jobs will also be remembered by Android fans by his declaration of war on Android in his last years. He has left this lasting mark with his law suits "thermonuclear" quote and so far, Tim Cook has been unable to shake it. It seems that many non-Apple fans still remember those last words from Jobs that is targeted directly at Android and they so far have not let Jobs live it down even in death.

I really think it is great that manufacturers try to incorporate features in their product to improve them. No doubt some of those features were copied from or inspired by products made by others. As a consumer, I will always demand a product that is the best for my needs. If a company takes those aspects from multiple rivals and makes a superproduct of my dreams, I'll plop down my money to get it. I will get upset of I want a product and someone manages to block me from getting it. I don't care whose fault it is, I just want a solution to my getting my hands on that product.

It's been a year and a half since Jobs passed away. Tim Cook is now running Apple. Ideally, we should judge Apple under Cook's leadership. Tim did continue with those law suits that was started under Jobs. I think that Tim had to not only out of resepect for Jobs, but also he should not show any weakness in this respects. Also, the suit netted Apple a huge monitary gain and a reputation that Apple can win these law suits. In a sense, it may make patent trolls, whom we all hate regarless of platform affiliation, think twice about making a move.

We all live in a less than ideal world. Steve Jobs is one of the biggest names in technology. In his last days, he has left a lasting impression on many with his "thermonuclear" declaration of war. All of the criticisms about Apple copying is part of the lasting legacy that Jobs left behind. I feel that as long as Apple and Google are major rivals, people will always accuse Apple of copying/stealing even though we know that everyone does it in order to improve the products we use.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:19

87. Googler (Posts: 813; Member since: 10 Jun 2013)


Tim Cook had to continue the lawsuits Steve started? Nonsense. All those lawsuits did was make Apple look bad to many. They haven't netted a single dime from the Samsung suit, it's getting retried with many of Apple's original patents being invalidated since it started. Tim could have sent a strong message about Apple being new but kept the thermonuclear war alive by not working out the differences with Samsung and others. And you're right, he can't shake the bad image of being sue crazy that Steve started, namely because he fed into it by not settling like adults.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:46

104. Stuntman (Posts: 836; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)


I don't think that any of Apple's rivals would show them any more courtesy had Cook dropped the lawsuit. Samsung provided many parts to Apple over the years. They had some insight on Apple's future products due to the fact that they were making parts for them. I doubt that Samsung would have just ignored that incidental information they get just because Apple dropped the law suit. I would say it would be regarded as a sign of weakness more than anything else.

I also doubt, it would really win over that many non-Apple fans. The iPhone doesn't become something an Android user finds attractive because the law suit was dropped.

If Apple indeed does in fact continue to refrain from filing new lawsuits that are similar, then that is a good step for them to take. I would rather companies spend the money creating better products instead of lining the pockets of lawyers.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:15 2

84. fanboy1974 (Posts: 1345; Member since: 12 Nov 2011)


I don't care about Apple copying to keep up. I care when Apple sues the competition for essentially doing the same thing. And iOS 7 does not have one innovative feature that Apple thought of on their own. They basically spray painted and slapped new rims on a stolen car.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:18

86. RangersK (Posts: 68; Member since: 15 May 2012)


LOL. You're the defensive player of the year!

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:31

93. maulgandhi (unregistered)


To begin with, the issue here is not who copied from who. The problem is Apple; Apple is vixen, they patent everything. For example. Slide to Unlock & Siri. Apple didn't invented Slide to unlock, the siri & just about everything else. Slide to unlock was created by some company i forgot the name. it was open source so just about anyone else can use it. Apple saw what android and other operating system were doing with slide to unlock, so they bought the company and patent it. Same goes with siri. Apple bought siri, which suppose to be part of verizon droid phones. Verizon had agreement with some company and they were only going to release on Moto Droid phones. Apple sees an opportunity, they bought the company. my point is Google, Windows, Hp dont mind if Apple copies from them, but Apple plays dirty. If someone tries to copy from em' they sue them. So yes Apple copied notification bar , notification toggles, multitasking, automatic updates, find and kill my iphone and much more. If someone plays dirty, others are not going to sit there and watch, they are going to play dirty too. I can see the future of the Apple...Going in Sewers.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:51

109. putes (Posts: 38; Member since: 03 Nov 2011)


You should have stopped writing at "First of all, I know that Apple has a dodgy past with claiming a feature is new, original, and unique to iOS ..."
Because this is reason we are having such arguments.
When Apple stops suing everyone for things they did not create then people will stop educating Apple fans as to what Apple really did or did not invent.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:55

113. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


You should have kept reading past that, because the fact is Apple hasn't done that in a long time. And, it hasn't started any new lawsuits under Tim Cook.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:40 2

143. carlos5593 (Posts: 28; Member since: 23 Jun 2012)


Wrong. They did add the s4 and acused Google of intriguing their patents with Google now and that was on 2013

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:39 1

212. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


They added the S4 because Samsung added the iPhone 5 and newer iPads. At this point, Samsung and Apple are equally at fault for that lawsuit mess.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 16:40

223. chaoticrazor (Posts: 2347; Member since: 28 Aug 2012)


exactly , both apple and Samsung are the same at this point. neither are better then the other.

but as the majority on here are android fanboys they see samsung as a hero. there are always rabid fanboys for companies that are on top all as bad as each other.

this article proves it, a fair excellent article yet most only seem to see a defense for apple where there isnt one. just facts been put across

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 18:53 1

111. PermanentHiatus (Posts: 267; Member since: 22 Jun 2012)


Nothing wrong with Apple blatantly stealing from Android.

It just means that you're doing something right and have Apple's full attention,

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:02

114. Altair (Posts: 367; Member since: 02 Feb 2012)


Check this "iOS 7 vs. Windows Phone 8" video and decide by yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM8NSSzxNGM&feature=player_embedded

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:31

124. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Saw that before writing the article. Doesn't change my argument.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:05 2

115. Hammerfest (Posts: 383; Member since: 12 May 2012)


This article completely misses the point of why people continue to say "stealing" when in relation to Apple and Android, that point of course is that Apple is continually accusing Android of stealing, ergo when something from Android shows up in Apple, its a reversed role...

The continual "stealing this stealing that" talk is mearly just a mirror image of what is being done between the two company's!

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:29 1

120. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Actually, that's all in the section titled "The elephant"

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:07

117. Mr.Mr.Upgrade (Posts: 474; Member since: 30 Aug 2011)


Apple and Xbox both crap

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:22

118. GoVinci (Posts: 16; Member since: 13 Dec 2011)


At least Android didn't go brandishing the word "innovation". That's the backlash Apple will have to live with. They have this habit of "owning" things. Or just very good in making people think that they did it.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 19:30

123. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


So, you're annoyed about marketing? That's petty.

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