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It's not stealing when Apple does it, because it wasn't stealing when Google did it either

0. phoneArena 13 Jun 2013, 16:17 posted on

Every time there are new features announced for iOS, there is an uproar around the web about Apple "stealing" features. I have talked before about why I think this is a silly argument, but I wanted to put up a refresher on the idea, because the claims simply won't die out. Here's the simple reason: it's not stealing when Apple does it, because it wasn't stealing when Google did it either...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 01:28 2

186. Anti-troll-returns (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)


But still they are not calling it like "revolutionary" or "innovation".
Please accept the facts.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 01:29 1

187. Anti-troll-returns (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)


WHY YOU HAVE BANNED ME!!!!!
I HAVE GOT 19+ LIKES WHICH SHOWS THAT I HAVE STATED A FACT!

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 03:48 1

194. ihatesmartphone (unregistered)


Seems that phoneareana are out of control...
Lol

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:01 1

40. Hallucinator (Posts: 387; Member since: 24 May 2010)


how could they have copied it from wp8 when ms copied it from web os and so on?

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:37 3

65. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


THAT is a point I will give. The overall concept of the article is correct to my viewpoint, but when apple dates to copy something seen as standard or that predates it, and then goes to court over it (which, as Michael H stated, seems to not have happened in the last couple years), it is a severe breach of, well not sure what to call it, decency or a universal agreement not to be jerks?

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:05 14

42. darkkjedii (Posts: 22064; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)


Extremely well written, and intelligent article Michael. 100% agreed +100 lol.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:10 15

47. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


I'm gonna have to talk to the guys upstairs about adding a "+100 lol" button

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:20 1

55. iamfoolhehe (Posts: 28; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)


Michael bro.
This is a offtopic..its very rare to get you .
Can you add battery test along with reviews like gsmarena do?
Can you the upstairs guys ;)

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:21

58. iamfoolhehe (Posts: 28; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)


Can you ask*

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:41 5

68. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


I'll mention it to the others, for sure!

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:33

209. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


I checked with the editors, and I've been told we are working on adding more extensive battery testing to reviews.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:56 2

150. Dorothy69 (banned) (Posts: 498; Member since: 21 May 2013)


I completely disagree; tldr and pointless.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 23:02 1

169. Charlie_boy (Posts: 69; Member since: 04 Jan 2013)


how can one disagree with something they havent read?
One has to understand it first before disagreeing...

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 00:10

177. duckymomo26 (Posts: 19; Member since: 01 Jun 2012)


I would also have to disagree with your existence. Its also pointless why you have to live.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 04:38 1

203. ghaniosman (Posts: 78; Member since: 06 Jun 2013)


If thats the case apple should make their patents like 'pinch to zoom' and 'slide to unlock' and 'rectangular device with rounded corners and screen in the middle and a thin profile' (can u believe that ridiculous sentence is a registered patent) to make them universal standard and if not get ready for excepting taunts of 'stealing' which r valid..

posted on 19 May 2016, 09:37

237. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 10680; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


Really? Here is why he is right.
The problem isn't copying. They all copy. As you stated, many inventions wouldn't be where they are if someone didn't take an idea and move it forward.

But here is where you defended Apple and its this that makes a hell of a big difference.

When Apple copied ideas, and saw they weren't patented, they went to the USPTO office and file for a patent that should never have been granted in the first place. They tried to evolve an idea that wasn't enevr theirs, and then when others used those non-obvious concepts, Apple sued them.

Also, Google didn't make Android, someone else did. Peopel who make the stupid false claims that Google changed their original concept of Android which was following Blackberry and saw iOS, they changed. It could be true to "some" degree.

Hwoever, the point an click UI is over 3 decades old. Which means its been on every smartphone and feature-phone since FOREVER. So Apple should not have been allowed to patent that concept, because it was not unique and non-obvious. All smartphones had this general concept as it states here:

http://www.zdnet.com/pictures/proof-that-apples-main-ipad-and-iphone-interface-has-barely-changed-in-20-years-gallery/6/

Sure Google copied lots of ideas from others. THEY ALL DO. But no one ever tried to patent them. The only thing you should get a patent for is if you attain the same concept by other means. Which means I can make the exact same product you make, but I have to develop a different way. You can also obvious patent an actual invention.

US Patents require that the invention be "non-obvious" and "novel". If someone already have the foundation for the concept and all you did is evolve it, you don't get to patent it as a new invention, because it isn't.

What was so unique about rounded corners and Apple trade-dress? NOTHING. Even though the Samsung Frame was not a tablet, it still had that concept do to the form factor. In other words, it looked just like a tablet. Did you see Samsung try to patent that? No. Because it is the same concept used for Tv's and computer monitors.

The problem with your article is, most of the people here who agreed with you are not so smart. They didn't see how you changed things up.

But not all of us are stupid. Those of us who received high scores in "reading/comprehension", can see right through what you did.

Example...you said this an I quote:
"But, we have to be careful about tossing around the term "stealing", because 1) that implies that these features never existed before they appeared on the other mobile operating systems, which is almost never the case;"

That is a complete and uttered lie! Sure some fanboy idiot would certainly say that, typical of most of the writers here.

Stealing is, taking anything that doesn't belong to you. In the case of Apple. They stole patented technology from Sony-Ericcsson and were FOUND GUILTY. Apple refused to pay the cost that Sony offered to license

posted on 19 May 2016, 09:48

238. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 10680; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


cont'd...the tech to them. Apple says they didnt want to pay that, they wanted to pay this because they felt it wasnt worth what Sony asked for. You dont get to dictate th rules when you steal. Apple has some nerve wen Samsung tried to license their patents, Apple had a ridiculous price structure and Samsung refused to pay. Please deny that happened, because its in the court documents which I read word for word.

You basically tried to say, its okay to steal because everyone does it. That is false.

Then Apple later says, we don't license our stuff and yet turn around and did a deal with HTC. Apple then did a motion to the court to have the details of this sealed. Samsung has motioned to have it opened, because Samsung believes that Apple did license its stuff to HTC, and it was based on many for the patents which have not been invalidated by the USPTO. I agree 100% with them. After all, look at the latest HTC models. Do you see HTC suing Apple for "stealing" their idea with the design?

Its not stealing if the copying isn't patented. Because those general things are not novel and they are not non-obvious and are thus general concepts that are required for certain form factors. That is why desktop, laptops, cars, planes and many other things look the same. You see them all suing. Do you? Why? Because the shape of a plane is require for it to fly and it is a invention that si not novel or non-obvious. It is a design that is required for flight. The only thing a company could patent is, they may patent a technology on the wing for example, that woudl give the wing more lift. But they could not just patent a airplane wing. That si what Apple did with rounded corners and many other things.

You made some other points that I can agree with in general speak. But your claims in general are false. Because Apple not only stole, they patented those things and claimed it was their own even though there is mountains of "prior art".

Sorry dude...you are just like most of the posters here. The force of Apple Reality Distortion Field is great on this site and its really sad that money will make you lie. That is why I could never be a journalist. I will never give up what I morally believe in for a payout. EVER! Even if I am totally wrong in my belief. As long as I believe I am right, that is all that matters, no matter what anyone else thinks or believes. After all we have a right to believe whatever we want.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 20:05

135. Gawain (Posts: 420; Member since: 15 Apr 2010)


You've obviously missed Michael's articles about Google and Android...he's pretty much all-in with Google/Android etc.

posted on 19 May 2016, 09:59

239. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 10680; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


Not in this one.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 16:29 9

3. biophone (Posts: 1976; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)


Good article mike.

I don't have any problem with "stealing" as long as one company isn't trying to steal another's brand identity. Otherwise its just building upon others which is smart.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:00 6

39. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Thanks!

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:12 8

50. maxican16 (Posts: 364; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)


I agree. Well put article. One of these days I'll get over hating Apple.. one of these days. Your point about it not being Jobs company actually helped quite a bit. I just can't see Cook saying something as ridiculous as "going thermonuclear" on a company.

That said, I don't hate the people that use their products. I'm happy my iOS friends are getting these "new" features.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 01:30

188. Anti-troll-returns (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)


Thanks to you also for putting ban on me.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 10:34

210. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2705; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Sorry, but I never even gave you a warning.

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 16:18

222. Potato. (banned) (Posts: 607; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)


Eh, sorry. Off the topic. But I can see Anti-troll-returns is banned. Just asking.

posted on 19 May 2016, 10:27

240. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 10680; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


I do agree its a good article compared to much of what I do read.

But you have to be more unbiased. If you think you weren't, just go back and read a few things you said.

But I do like the fact you can show many points that are general and can easily be agreed with. But the Apple stance really has to change.

The main thing you missed is, copy is only wrong if what you stole is property of someone else. And copying is illegal, stealing is.

There is a huge difference in "stealing" and "copying".

The only thing I can thing of where both can be interchanged is, if I go out and make my own plates and make my own money. In that case I would need to COPY the real money and make a plate. Which is both copying and stealing.

Apple copied others ideas, and they stole them by using patented technologies they knew were not theirs.

They stole other people idea that were not their own. Like the Wifi Sync app they stole for Hughes. They stole product names. They stole their own company name. They stole the Siri UI. They stole from Xerox and then tried to sue Microsoft with it.

When Steve Jobs stated that Good artist copy and great artist steal; who do you think he was talkign about? He was talkign about his company which did more than just copy. They stole and they were "shameless about stealing". They didnt care about getting caught, because by that time, they would have the money to pay off any court handed fine or damages to the plaintiff. This is always how Apple has operated. We all know this is how Apple does business.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:02 4

41. gustavoace (Posts: 183; Member since: 13 Nov 2012)


I think exactly the same way. Some features are great, and I want it on my phone, regardless the OS. But Apple crossed all the lines with the copying thing, patenting ridiculous things (e.g. the rectangular with round corners design), and now everyone else accuses them of stealing. Karma is a bitch.

posted on 13 Jun 2013, 17:46 3

70. biophone (Posts: 1976; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)


Copying things I feel is ok as I stated as long as they aren't trying to steal brand identity.

The patents were redic however its the uspto fault for putting them through

posted on 14 Jun 2013, 04:07 1

196. tedkord (Posts: 12272; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


The USPTO is definitely effed up, but Apple its just as much to blame. If you take advantage of a messed up system, you are at fault.

If I use an ATM, and it starts spitting money at me from everyone else's account, keeping it would be wrong on my part. Returning and doing it again would make me a pretty awful person. It would be the banks fault for having a faulty ATM, but I know the difference between right and wrong.

Apple walks right up to that ATM, and time and again withdraws all the money and tells us to blame the bank.

posted on 19 May 2016, 10:31

241. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 10680; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


Dude...you are just awesome!

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