It's not stealing when Apple does it, because it wasn't stealing when Google did it either
0. phoneArena 13 Jun 2013, 16:17 posted on
Every time there are new features announced for iOS, there is an uproar around the web about Apple "stealing" features. I have talked before about why I think this is a silly argument, but I wanted to put up a refresher on the idea, because the claims simply won't die out. Here's the simple reason: it's not stealing when Apple does it, because it wasn't stealing when Google did it either...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. tedkord (Posts: 8006; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
Watch out, Michael. Both sides are gunning for you now.
5. biophone (Posts: 1900; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Such is the problem with being unbiased. Any rational person regardless of os prefrence isn't gunning for him though.
46. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
If everyone disagrees with me, I'm either doing my job really well or really poorly. I'm just aiming for the former.
74. the_best (Posts: 139; Member since: 14 Oct 2012)
The problem isnt that we Think that they are stealing.
The problem is that companies as apple, microsoft, google and so on keep claiming that everybody else is stealing from them even if its true or not.
And when people see these obvius thefts they get angry because these big companies never get what they deserve.
78. ihatesmartphone (unregistered)
89. taz89 (Posts: 2014; Member since: 03 May 2011)
Like you I've always felt that it's not stealing and everyone b copies ideas and builds of one another.. The issue I've always had is with apples hypocrisy..you said not to judge them by Steve jobs apple but imo it looks like they still trying to run apple the Steve jobs way.. Am pretty sure they are seeing over the s3 and s4 and they were after Steve lobs death.. True apple not the only one in litigation but in most cases if anyone is suing apple it's usually just to defend themselves.. I hope your right the "new" apple will not be suing over petty things and I know it's just as much the fault of the dumbest patent system ever that these lawsuits even exist..
106. Dr.Phil (Posts: 1025; Member since: 14 Feb 2011)
I thought it was a good article. I don't view the features shared by iOS, Android, and WP8 as copying each other or stealing from each other, but rather I view it in the sense of which company is actually leading and which company is just a follower. If a company is just adding features that have already existed for months or years to its devices, then to me they aren't the real leaders or innovators in the mobile space. If, however, they bring something new and innovative that others then want to put onto their devices, then they are the true leader in that respect. So, the question then becomes: with the recent introduction of iOS 7, was Apple a leader or a follower?
It looks like the readers have already made up their minds.
145. buccob (Posts: 2279; Member since: 19 Jun 2012)
Exactly my thoughts. Thumbs up for you Dr.
And there are ways to innovate without strictly following... its true you don't have to re-invent the wheel every single time, but there are other ways to add functionality while keeping aesthetics and simplicity.
149. Dorothy69 (banned) (Posts: 498; Member since: 21 May 2013)
I completely disagree. First and foremost: tldr!!
Secondly, the tidbits I was able to quickly scan over and process with my bionic vision implied a comparison between various desktop platforms and Android (or Google Chrome) and, therefore, I am at an utter loss as to how these analogies apply specifically to two mobile operating systems, Android and iOS, respectively??
152. Dr.Phil (Posts: 1025; Member since: 14 Feb 2011)
Perhaps you should read the article then and maybe you would know why he made those comparisons. I don't understand how someone can say they disagree with something when all they did was scan through the entire article. You missed a lot of important points.
154. datoserigarylaw (unregistered)
112. Stuntman (Posts: 828; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)
I think the quality of the comments here reflect that you are doing your job well.
155. a_tumiwa (Posts: 373; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)
so Michael, do u agree that Apple is wrong when they started a patent war against Samsung and the others?
157. VZWuser76 (Posts: 2931; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)
See I've been saying something similar to this for awhile now. I'd mention a feature that was supposedly new, and then bring up that they've had that feature on desktops & laptops for quite awhile. The response I'd always get was "Yeah, but this is on a phone!" So what? A smartphone is basically a pocket computer with radios to make wireless calls. All of these OSs for these phones could work or be adapted to work on a non mobile platform. So rather than re-issuing patents for mobile, they should go off of the original patent that's applicable, whether desktop or mobile. I'd bet a lot of the patents that people are suing over would be invalid because what they did was adapt someone else's patent to work on their device, and figured since it's on a mobile device that's new ground.
171. joey_sfb (Posts: 4636; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)
I agree with you 100% that why Samsung and the rest of the world was shock when Apple sue Samsung over their design patent.
Now everyone want to sue every body else over design and software patents. Learn about the new Oracle and Google follow-up law suit. Oracle and Microsoft wants more protection over their codes.
172. Mittal (Posts: 493; Member since: 14 Dec 2011)
your thoughts on features having been present in other devices/platforms in some form or the other makes sense. But when we talk about taking inspiration from real life scenarios, to some extent , yes, we can say that its not a case of pure genious, but we must credit the first company to adopt that feature for its farsightedness and confidence to do the new thing in the electronic world.
174. haroonazeem638 (Posts: 134; Member since: 29 Mar 2011)
It is not the stealing part that should really bother anyone. With so many advancements in technology, it is almost impossible to come up with something that may not have existed before. This is because every new technology MUST depend on older technologies. Otherwise, it's like saying that everyone has been stealing from GOD.
The reason why Apple is highlighted in this issue most is because of the terms they use when introducing products. You can't copy something and call it innovative or new or whatever term you want to use. You copied it, fine! Move on. So there IS a difference here.
184. Anti-troll-returns (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)
Stop putting ban on me.
207. JunitoNH (Posts: 1369; Member since: 15 Feb 2012)
This is the reason adults run the world, not children. Fantasy is one thing, reality a whole different story.
224. jroc74 (Posts: 5673; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
I agree with this article, Michael. I just wish an article like this popped up when soooo many fanboys accused Google, Android of copying Apple, iOS.
So...in that sense expect some backlash for this article....lol.
2. Anti-Troll (banned) (Posts: 64; Member since: 12 Jun 2013)
PHONEARENA DEFENDING IOS!
And yet you are calling yourself unbiased.
4. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
And, there's the first person to completely misread the article...
8. Anti-Troll (banned) (Posts: 64; Member since: 12 Jun 2013)
Thanks for replying. This is the first time that you have replied me.
11. Anti-Troll (banned) (Posts: 64; Member since: 12 Jun 2013)
But the point is.. They steal from it others. patent it and yet call it "innovation". They even sue others. That is not fair.
For Example: iOS 7 multitasking is copied from WebOS/WP8 multitasking, did they gave credits? No.
17. feres13 (Posts: 306; Member since: 23 Dec 2011)
Has MS gave credits to WebOS when they copied their Multitasking UI in WP?? No
175. haroonazeem638 (Posts: 134; Member since: 29 Mar 2011)
YES, but when Apple copies, they also go to court for silly things they didn't really invent.
186. Anti-troll-returns (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)
But still they are not calling it like "revolutionary" or "innovation".
Please accept the facts.
187. Anti-troll-returns (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)
WHY YOU HAVE BANNED ME!!!!!
I HAVE GOT 19+ LIKES WHICH SHOWS THAT I HAVE STATED A FACT!
194. ihatesmartphone (unregistered)
Seems that phoneareana are out of control...
40. Hallucinator (Posts: 344; Member since: 24 May 2010)
how could they have copied it from wp8 when ms copied it from web os and so on?
65. -box- (Posts: 3982; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
THAT is a point I will give. The overall concept of the article is correct to my viewpoint, but when apple dates to copy something seen as standard or that predates it, and then goes to court over it (which, as Michael H stated, seems to not have happened in the last couple years), it is a severe breach of, well not sure what to call it, decency or a universal agreement not to be jerks?
42. darkkjedii (Posts: 17115; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)
Extremely well written, and intelligent article Michael. 100% agreed +100 lol.
47. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
I'm gonna have to talk to the guys upstairs about adding a "+100 lol" button
55. iamfoolhehe (Posts: 28; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
This is a offtopic..its very rare to get you .
Can you add battery test along with reviews like gsmarena do?
Can you the upstairs guys ;)
68. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
I'll mention it to the others, for sure!
209. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
I checked with the editors, and I've been told we are working on adding more extensive battery testing to reviews.
150. Dorothy69 (banned) (Posts: 498; Member since: 21 May 2013)
I completely disagree; tldr and pointless.
169. Charlie_boy (Posts: 67; Member since: 04 Jan 2013)
how can one disagree with something they havent read?
One has to understand it first before disagreeing...
177. duckymomo26 (Posts: 19; Member since: 01 Jun 2012)
I would also have to disagree with your existence. Its also pointless why you have to live.
203. ghaniosman (Posts: 69; Member since: 06 Jun 2013)
If thats the case apple should make their patents like 'pinch to zoom' and 'slide to unlock' and 'rectangular device with rounded corners and screen in the middle and a thin profile' (can u believe that ridiculous sentence is a registered patent) to make them universal standard and if not get ready for excepting taunts of 'stealing' which r valid..
135. Gawain (Posts: 405; Member since: 15 Apr 2010)
You've obviously missed Michael's articles about Google and Android...he's pretty much all-in with Google/Android etc.
3. biophone (Posts: 1900; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Good article mike.
I don't have any problem with "stealing" as long as one company isn't trying to steal another's brand identity. Otherwise its just building upon others which is smart.
50. maxican16 (Posts: 364; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)
I agree. Well put article. One of these days I'll get over hating Apple.. one of these days. Your point about it not being Jobs company actually helped quite a bit. I just can't see Cook saying something as ridiculous as "going thermonuclear" on a company.
That said, I don't hate the people that use their products. I'm happy my iOS friends are getting these "new" features.
188. Anti-troll-returns (banned) (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)
Thanks to you also for putting ban on me.
210. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
Sorry, but I never even gave you a warning.
222. Potato. (banned) (Posts: 607; Member since: 14 Jun 2013)
Eh, sorry. Off the topic. But I can see Anti-troll-returns is banned. Just asking.
41. gustavoace (Posts: 159; Member since: 13 Nov 2012)
I think exactly the same way. Some features are great, and I want it on my phone, regardless the OS. But Apple crossed all the lines with the copying thing, patenting ridiculous things (e.g. the rectangular with round corners design), and now everyone else accuses them of stealing. Karma is a bitch.
70. biophone (Posts: 1900; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Copying things I feel is ok as I stated as long as they aren't trying to steal brand identity.
The patents were redic however its the uspto fault for putting them through
196. tedkord (Posts: 8006; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
The USPTO is definitely effed up, but Apple its just as much to blame. If you take advantage of a messed up system, you are at fault.
If I use an ATM, and it starts spitting money at me from everyone else's account, keeping it would be wrong on my part. Returning and doing it again would make me a pretty awful person. It would be the banks fault for having a faulty ATM, but I know the difference between right and wrong.
Apple walks right up to that ATM, and time and again withdraws all the money and tells us to blame the bank.
6. TechWorld_Observer (Posts: 15; Member since: 17 Aug 2011)
Remember the first iPhone? No really innovation as there were many features already on contemporary phones at the time, but Apple was able to put the top features from each phone into the iPhone, not real innovation, right? simple, any company COULD do it, but never did. Worst thing about it is that these other companies knew about it and yet they wanted to keep selling junk. Yes, you remember, ugly designs, buggy software, gosh you had to keep messing with the software features all the time (if you could) just to get your phone to a satisfying point.
A TV screen, an existing circuit board, a few other existing components, they just put them all together into one product... the PC. All easy, right, no true innovation at this, any boy could do this in their parents garage.
What's the lesson here?
206. Sauce (unregistered)
Last time I checked there still are ugly & hideous designs, buggy software, as well as still having to mess with the software to get your "awesome" phone. This is why I left android for windows and iOS.
7. RORYREVOLUTION (Posts: 3095; Member since: 12 Jan 2010)
Everyone knows that every company in the world "steals/borrows" from their competition, they make it better and improve on it, advance it as much as possible. Nobody has a problem with that, we have a problem with the fact that Apple has stolen ideas from the very start and then had the nerve to try to ban and sue the hell out of their competition when they themselves are no better.
But sure, we can pretend that Apple isn't a money hogging billion dollar corporation that steals from their own developers and takes the credit for themselves and tries to bully and scare competition right out the door.
9. biophone (Posts: 1900; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Michael mentioned that. Apple hasn't started any lawsuits under Tim cook. That was a jobs thing and he isn't part of apple anymore.
85. Stuntman (Posts: 828; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)
That is true, but many people still see Jobs as the face of Apple and still remember those lawsuits while he was running the company. I don't know how long it will be before that perception changes.
125. roscuthiii (Posts: 1957; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)
Until the current cases are resolved most likely.
And then of course there has to be no new anti-competitive lawsuits filed.