ITC rules that HTC is violating two Apple patents, threatens all of Android
0. phoneArena 15 Jul 2011, 19:47 posted on
Apple had filed a lawsuit claiming that HTC infringed on 10 patents, and the ITC has ruled that HTC is indeed in violation of two of those patents, which could cause trouble for HTC in importing devices into the USA...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
119. The_Miz (Posts: 1496; Member since: 06 Apr 2011)
This app requests the following permissions:
-Send and receive SMS(costs you money)
-read all text messages and contact info
-access the internet at any time
-can keep phone from shutting off
-can watch you naked in the shower
-can read your bank info
-can read your SSN
-can read your emails
-can track your location
-can access your phone's data
88. Sniggly (Posts: 7177; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
-force close but just doesn't notify you-
120. The_Miz (Posts: 1496; Member since: 06 Apr 2011)
-opens in background and drains battery-
166. jbash (Posts: 342; Member since: 07 Feb 2011)
lol that had to be the best you have ever gotten along
78. Cee (unregistered)
The United States ITC ruled against an overseas company. If Apple wants to play that game, HTC can get the European ITC on their side and you will have a stalemate. Apple is shooting themselves in the foot with these ridiculous lawsuits. Android phones are getting better every six months and Apple keeps the same refreshed locked down toy.
89. BenCjamin (Posts: 80; Member since: 13 May 2011)
This is complete bulls**t. Apple is suing everyone and anyone with some kind of leverage on "their market". They have opened suits not only against HTC but also Sony and Samsung as well. Why is apple suing everyone? It's simple it's losing it's market domination. However, with competition comes growth with that growth comes more innovation. Though Apple's idea initially start the revolution look at what has come of it. lots of innovative and amazing products that apple can't even begin to meet the demands of no matter how much they try. Their product is amazing but it's not what everybody wants. Having a monopoly on Touchscreen smartphones doesn't help anyone. If it weren't for google apples IOS wouldn't have changed as much as it has, look at the changes that are happening to OS right now with IOS5. Competition isn't bad it's brilliant it forces companies to think and bring new things to the market so all i have to say to apple is lay off!
90. TDubb (Posts: 1; Member since: 16 Jul 2011)
All this s**t is stupid. Just shut up and compete.
96. humancent-iPAD (unregistered)
co-sign TDubb and the others that said, "just man up and compete in the market and stop being a pu**y about it in the courtroom". Apple has to realize that they can't control everything lol (or do they?).
97. iosmaster (Posts: 115; Member since: 06 Jul 2011)
iPurification app now avaible on android crapket, download it and see how it magically transforms your pagan device on an iPhone the most amazing device on the universe "attention iUniverse its in pattent progress. hHAHHAHAHA STEVE JOBS OWNS U. PWND
98. hepresearch (unregistered)
I think I might prefer death than to be "owned" by Steve Jobs...
100. HTCiscool (Posts: 449; Member since: 16 Jul 2011)
doesnt apple have anything better to do then suing companies that did nothing to them. They should focus on creating their next iPhone before everyone owns an SGS ll
102. Whateverman (Posts: 3231; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Is anyone concerned about the precedence this is setting. If this ruling goes Apples why, HTC will be banned from the US. Possibly Motorola and Samsung to follow. Then they'll go after anything else Android, Palm, and Windows, not really sure if RIM would be safe. Nokia And HTC could get Apple banned from the US as well. Once these products has all been banned, then what? We're left with Nokia as the only touchscreen smartphone in the US. WP7's for everyone!
Far fetched??? Sure, until it actually happens.
123. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Another dumb comment by you. This will be worked out. Either android will have to come up with some original sw or they have to pay Apple to copy them. Simple.
125. Whateverman (Posts: 3231; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Everything you say is dumb! And still you get no respect from anybody on this site. Do us all a favor and go to phonescoop.com.
128. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
I get way more respect than you by the average member. Only ones that don't like me is fandroid sheep like you because I speak the truth and call you out on your bs.
140. Whateverman (Posts: 3231; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Whatever, get back to me when you have something constructive to add to the conversation. Right now, all your doing is bumping your gums.
163. networkdood (Posts: 6308; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)
Wow, to say an android user is a sheep is a tres ignorant statement unto itself. Android, again, is an open OS, with mutliple manufacturers and carriers. Apple? No.....
108. ian (unregistered)
Omg Apple needs to stop freaken complaining
109. ojdidit84 (unregistered)
All semantics and strawman arguments aside. Anyone who takes a quick glance can see how blatantly vague they are, including the two patents shown here. Many of the patents which Apple have applied for, including these two, are patents for things which have already been in use for years, even decades before they filed for these patents. Other companies, like some of the infamous patent trolls that flock to east Texas do the same things, although they don't actually make any products.
The real problem here is the USPTO. There needs to be some major reform in the way patents are granted here in the U.S. There is no way that some of these patents should have been granted for things that were already been invented and in use in so many implementations before the patents were granted.
Someone needs to step in and redefine the rules of patent filings and require more research of what the submitted patent applications actually are to keep companies from abusing the obviously broken system that's currently in place.
114. Lukasz C. (unregistered)
Ummm, you guys know HTC invented and patented the first color touchscreen a couple years ago with their windows mobile pocket computers right? For some reason though they failed to be jerks and sue every company with a color touchscreen. They probably regret that now since the patent expired... :(
124. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Yes they can't accept iOS is better. I wonder if android gets banned from the us which bandwagon they'll jump on next.
126. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
What happens eventually is. All android phonemakers will go after Google for giving them the android OS that is filled with stolen patented IP's from Apple.
The iphone was and is way ahead of everyone. Everyone was desperate for an OS to compete with iOS after the iphone's unexpected success back in 2007. Everyone was caught off guard. Just to stay in the competition and to buy them time, they put in Symbian OS on their touch devices knowing too well that Symbian is not a touch optimized OS. They failed of course. Everyone struggled, while Apple was rapidly taking over. Google saw a huge opportunity and cooked up android which is heavily iOS inspired, and gave it for free (and I think they gave it for free for a reason). Everyone was running out of time. They need their touch OS now. Out of desperation, phone manufacturers adopted android. Not caring and thinking so much about the patent infringements that came with it. It's a survival situation for them. Apple already saw what was going on, and could've already done something back then. But they were new in the phone business and had other more important things to deal with at that early stage. But the copying has gone from tolerable to "in your face" degrees, with no respect whatsoever to Apple. Worse, arrogant fandroids act like they never heard of the iphone and discredit what Apple has bulit and Apple's contribution to the phone industry. Instead, they like to believe that it was the LG Prada that inspired all of this and take away any credit due to Apple. Rude and disrespectful. Fandroids are despicable. And then fandroids question why Apple is suing? Well maybe because they felt abused, both by these manufacturers, google, and fandroids. At times, respect is demanded.
129. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
These craproid fanboys are laughable. It's like looking at the sky and insisting it's not blue.
131. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Very true. And no matter how much you make sense with your posts, they will thumb you down regardless. That is how unfair and illogical their brains are. They don't listen, or they refuse to accept the truth. Their judgement is clouded by their overwhelming hate.
Now watch them with their multiple accounts thumb our comments down (to prove my point), hahahahahaha.
134. hepresearch (unregistered)
I suppose Apple may demand respect, but they cannot take it from someone who is unwilling to give it... if they did, there is already a name for that... it's called tyrrany.
Oh shoot, 530gemini, did I just accidentally thumbs-down your comment? Oopsy! 8-P
138. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
My goodness hepresearch. Why do you think someone demands respect? It's because some jerk is unwilling to give it. Otherwise, there's no need to demand it. No need resorting to tyranny.
Oooops, did I just insinuate that you're dumb ;)
141. hepresearch (unregistered)
hah! 530gemini, are you insinuating that if someone is unwilling to give respect, that the person demanding the respect ought to resort to tyrrany to get it if they have to? A war started on a certain continent in 1775 because a certain king demanded respect from those who felt no obligation to offer their respect, and he was willing to try to take it by force.
Of course there is no need to resort to tyrrany if everybody is already scared of you and/or respects you... that's called... tyrrany?
530gemini, you are so fun to mess with... I enjoy having you around!
144. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
@hepresearch. What I am saying is. There is no need to demand for respect when it's already given willingly. Demanding for respect does not mean you should resort to tyranny. That is why Apple is taking all of them to court instead of just using their billions to buy everyone off.
I have read a lot of your posts here, and I have actually admired you. I don't know now. I'm getting this impression that you just like to argue with anyone.
149. hepresearch (unregistered)
@530gemini... alright, I will give you that one. I suppose you came across sounding like you meant something else, hence my question. The ones who are truly respectable, though, rarely have to demand respect.
Well, I have my days I guess... whenever I get out of the hospital, I am always cranky for a couple of days afterward, more-so than usual, and I haven't been feeling 100% lately. Debating with anyone is what I aim to do, and it is fun when done right. I apologize if I have come across as a bit combative as of late.
139. hepresearch (unregistered)
That's hilarious... after 530gemini thumbs-up'd his own comment to remove my thumbs-down, and gave my reply comment a thumbs-down, it appears that somebody had the freakin' kahonas to thumbs-down not only 530gemini, but also taco50's comment as well.
530gemini, when you basically try to stack the decks so that no one can thumbs-down your comment without being ridiculed for it or "proving" your point, you are entering into waste-commentary territory
When you tell us all in your commentary that anyone giving you or taco50 a thumbs-down proves that our "brains" are "unfair and illogical", you're basically just issuing a challenge to us all. I guess that you're going to say that I'm "unfair and illogical"... well, at least that my "brain" is...
So, I'll be nice... 530gemini and taco50, I'm giving you both thumbs-up on your prior comments, #126 and #129, just to give you a head-start... we'll see if anyone else is willing to be called "unfair and illogical" for the sake of integrity. Nothing personal; I don't hate you guys, it's just that you are both so freakin' entertaining when you get picked on... 8-P
145. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
@hepresearch. I thumbed you down, but I didn't give myself a thumbs up. Thinkers are doers. That's probably why you think that way. Unless of course you can prove to me that I did give myself a thumbs up. Can you?
I am really surprised by your reaction to my comments. I was expecting superandroidevo, sniggly, or remix to attack me, but not you. Never even considered you a bit. Well I guess your true colors came out, and you are indeed another fandroid :)
150. hepresearch (unregistered)
@530gemini... yeah, I figured. Sorry for assuming the worst, it just sort of looked like that had happened, and there are only a couple of things that really tick me off... when somebody disrespects a lady (applies to every situation), or when commenters in a forum appear to thumbs-up or thumbs-down themselves for personal gain. Thankfully, there is no way to prove that anybody does or does not do that... so I was really jumping the gun on that accusation, and once again I apologize. Like I said, I have been rather cranky today (well, and I was yesterday too). Not that it is an excuse for me though. I tend to be a very gruff debator when I get into one of my funks. Did not intend for any of this to seem personal, but I suppose I crossed the line.
hepresearch's mouth --- insert foot
130. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
I also would like to point out, that a lot of these fandroids, used to be loyal Symbian users. They hate Apple. They know that Symbian cannot rival iOS on touch devices. They know that iOS is mainly responsible for the unavoidable downfall of Symbian. With that said, they would support any touch OS that could rival iOS. Android is their saving grace. They would support android at all costs as their revenge for what iOS did to Symbian.
132. hepresearch (unregistered)
If any OEM bothered to make a new smartphone that did not have a touch screen, I would buy it just so that I could avoid this whole dang "fanboy war". As for the "unavoidable downfall" of Symbian, well, if it was so unavoidable then why do you bother to say that iOS is responsible? There are just as many bloggers that say it would have fallen on its own as there are iFans who love to claim the felling of Symbian. I enjoyed Symbian immensely, and it sucks to have my preferred choice removed from me... by I am not vengeful by nature. I do not hate iOS, nor do I love Android. Suffice it to say, that yes, the iPhone did lead the clear revolution and popularization of touch screen smartphones, and everybody tried to find a niche in that market as it exploded... even the ones (like HTC, Palm/HP, and SE w/ Symbian UIQ) who already made touch screen smartphones, but just needed to improve them to keep up. The latecomers to the touch screen smartphone wars, particularly Symbian S60 and Blackberry, have suffered tremendously, and Nokia's attempt with the 5800 XpressMusic just made things worse for Nokia/SE and Symbian in the long run. But yeah, I would buy a decent non-touch screen smartphone if anyone bothered to ever make one these days...
137. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
@hepresearch. They did continue making non-touchscreen smartphones. Remember the N96? Nothing happened to it. The unavoidable downfall of Symbian was due to iOS' entry into the phone industry. Why? Who do you think caused Symbian to go down? WinMo? Did I say that you're vengeful or hateful of Apple? Why? Do you consider yourself as one of the fandroids I was referring to? There are several capable smartphones out there with hardkeys. Don't make it seem like all smartphones out there are fully touchscreen. Go buy Pre3 or several droid phones with slideout keyboards. Geez Louisse. You seem to be smart and dumb as well :)
142. hepresearch (unregistered)
uh, yeah, the N96 came out after the iPhone. It sold kind of so-so, unlike its predecessor the N95, which was awesome. I myself bought an E75, one of the last to "lack" a touch screen completely, and I loved that phone and owned it for a good while. However, I have not seen a new smartphone model that does not have a touch screen since 2009, except maybe a BB or two early on.
I never blamed an alternate for the fall of Symbian... maybe it was just because people got tired of the "classic" smartphone ideal, which Nokia and RIM and a few others excelled at for a long time.
You did not specify that I was vengful or hateful, but since you impuned nearly every non-iFan on the discussion board, I figured I would clarify...
There are quite a few smartphones with hardkeys, but that is not my issue... not a single one will be without a touch screen, even though they do have hardkeys and such. I really don't want a Pre3 or an Android... or an iPhone for that matter. I don't want a smartphone that has ANY touch screen at all! Might consider it on a feature phone under certain circumstances, but not on a smartphone. Goodness gracious...
What did I say that seemed smart? What did I say that seemed dumb? Just curious... and by the way, I prefer the term "eccentric"...
147. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
@hepresearch. If you read my comments carefully, you would know that I was referring to fandroids. Not all android users are fandroids. I never considered you a fandroid, hence, my surprise to your reaction.
I am not an eloquent writer like you. I say it as I see it. If I think it's dumb, then I'll say it's dumb.
151. hepresearch (unregistered)
fair enough... I'm not complaining.
If you haven't figured me out by now, I'll give you an interesting clue...
I have a strong tendency to throw intellectual support behind whoever is the underdog in a situation. It means that I lose quite often, and get dissappointed sometimes, but it is because I crave balance in multi-player systems, such as corporate activity, sports, politics, etc.; same goes for choices available. I like to maximize the number of choices and quality of choices I get to pick from. At the moment, I probably act a little like a "Fandroid" because Apple is dealing quite a blow to Google and supporting OEM's as of late. If the roles were reversed, you might see me fighting on Apple's behalf some day. Will I ever own either an Android or an iPhone? Not likely, but not impossible either. I hope there is always a third option (and please, PLEASE not WP7... okay maybe I need a fourth option too), because I just like to be different from everybody else as much as possible... for instance, I think my main reason for liking Nokia was that almost nobody else that I knew had a Nokia smartphone. I had, and still have, loads of friends and family with iPhones and Android devices, and also Blackberries back in the day. My first smartphone was a HTC Dash on T-Mobile USA, but once I discovered Symbian I was aboslutely satisfied. I had a Nokia 9300, a Nokia N75, and then later a Nokia E75. The N75 was a little more common, but I never ever met another person that owned either a 9300 or an E75. My mom still uses my old 9300 to this day. My problem... is that they just don't make 'em like they used to, in my opinion.
133. htcEv0 (unregistered)
why is Apple so worried about some infringements! people will always "love" Apple and they'll always have a HUGE place in the electronic market. you could stick an Apple logo sticker on an empty box and get people excited. Apple is the "IN" items today in society.
136. ibap (Posts: 706; Member since: 09 Sep 2009)
The bare description of these issues sounds like no one except Apple can make a smartphone. Since they were clearly not first to market with a touch screen phone, or even a phone, you have to wonder if these rulings will stand.
143. phones522 (Posts: 94; Member since: 27 Jan 2010)
If Htc loses will the htc phones already in use be deactivated or will they just not be allowed to ship anymore
148. TOdoubleD (Posts: 114; Member since: 28 Mar 2011)
That will never happen, don't listen to the idiots on these forums, 90% of them don't even read the article. They skip right to the comment section to argue about which OS is better. Personally i think they're both great.
What will happen in the end is both companies will sit down and work out a settlement. And then after that, HTC will own the company that Apple infringed upon their patents and we get to see it go the other way.
What really needs to happen, is a patent reform.
153. mathen (unregistered)
Why all the fuss?why can't apple fight by increasing product quality and better pricing.If HTC is banned its going to be a huge loss for all
154. Goddamnhypocrites (unregistered)
Android or apple... Everyone has their own preference...
Why so much fuss? All thr OS out there are actually copying each other.
ALL of THEM...
I have an android... And an iphone.
And I see both have their own plus points.
So let us all just leave the fighting to the two companies...
And enjoy what good products they created after the fight.
Competition makes better performance...
159. networkdood (Posts: 6308; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)
Iphone is nice for the person that does not do anything on their phone but talk, text, email, play games, watch an occasional movie or video, etc. The typical iphone user is not technogically savy (especially residents in the southeast region). An iphone is a smartphone for dummies. Prior to iphones, smartphones (PDAs) were seen as only used by geeks or those who had time to figure out how to use it. Everyone wants one because a typical user wants to keep up with the Joneses. Typical U.S. family now includes: 3.5 bedroom, 1.7 bath, 2-car garage home, 1 dog, 1 cat, 2.2 kids, mother, father, and iphones for all.
Honestly, it did revolutionize how we look at smartphones.
However, APPLE owns iOS, and has a tight leash on it.
Android is linux-based - for those who have no clue what linux is:
"Linux (commonly /ˈlɪnəks/ lin-əks in English, also pronounced /ˈlɪnʊks/ lin-uuks in Europe) refers to the family of Unix-like computer operating systems using the Linux kernel. Linux can be installed on a wide variety of computer hardware, ranging from mobile phones, tablet computers, routers and video game consoles, to desktop computers, mainframes and supercomputers. Linux is a leading server operating system, and runs the 10 fastest supercomputers in the world"
Ironically, AT&T had a hand in creating Unix, and APPLE's MAC OS X is Unix-based.
Source code is released on a regular basis for Android, while, again, APPLE keeps the stuff to themselves until they are good and ready.
When I say that Americans are lemmings, it means many do not think about what they are doing, and just want something for the sake of wanting, not all, though.
A phone whose battery cannot be removed, a phone where the user cannot install more memory is just anti-user. Some see it as simple.
Like with Windows, Android has several styles/models on practically every carrier.
Yes, some are mid-range. Not everyone wants to pay to get THE best. Those phones are on par with iphone 3GS.
Look at the best Android models on each carrier and tell me they do not compare favorably to iphone 4.
My own captivate has gingerbread OS, with lots of transparent apps. Go look at the XDA website - android dominates it. WHY? OPEN SOURCE. LINUX. For those who like to 'tinker' with their phones Android is the one.
When something is popular in America, it does not always mean it is the best. Look at Sega vs, Nintendo or PS3 vs. Wii. A majority of Americans buy a phone without proper research, go to a store and listen to the sales pitch about why they should buy an iphone. I would switch to an iphone, depending on what APPLE comes with.
But, for APPLE to sue someone in hopes of blocking its imports of phones to America, is a sign that the company is worried, in the long term. Otherwise, they would just ask for a royalty fee. At some point in time APPLE will fall again, and they will fall hard.
161. Trance (unregistered)
Well for me this has gone beyond anything sensible, its like a car company sue another car company for cars with four wheels and four seats, we will have something like "shout to zoom", or some rectangle shaped car wheels lol~ @@
162. networkdood (Posts: 6308; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)
Yeah, seems like every phone in the universe violates a patent. Motorola could sue because they created the first phone...I am sure in the end common sense will somewhat intervene.
164. You Should know (unregistered)
every one says google this Apple that. Im tired of hearing this.
for seems like no one hear knows that the android os is back by the Open Headset Alliance, a consortium that includes mobile operators, handset manufacturers, semiconductor companies, software companies, and finally commercialization companies. just check for your selfhttp://www.openhandsetalliance
165. dandirk (unregistered)
Android vs ios aside... This is a US patent issue. Apple shotgunned 10 patents and 2 stuck.
Have you read the patents?
/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF &d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPT O%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s 1=5,946,647.PN.&OS=PN/5,946,64 7&RS=PN/5,946,647
/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF &d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPT O%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s 1=6,343,263.PN.&OS=PN/6,343,26 3&RS=PN/6,343,263
While I am not a lawyer and honestly don't know enough, just speaking in laymans terms... They are pretty bogus.
One is essentially for creating dynamic links/actions to text/data, they mention phone numbers, zip codes etc. Holy crap it reads like Apple has a patent on a dynamic hyperlink... All those ads you see on sites where they hyperlink an add to intel processors everytime you type "intel"...
The other seems like a patent for a universal modem that supports voice, data and other types of data. Seems pretty generic to me.
imho... its NOT Apple or HTC or the lawsuits that is insane... its the patent office.
It just seems that its too easy to patent something so broad like "ability to inhale oxygen to sustain life" aka breathing... That other companies are completely blocked out of whole segments of markets.
I don't know what the answer is cause you have to have patents to protect inventors and visionaries but these seem a bit vague and honestly they may work better for other sectors but technology is small and fast...
168. downphoenix (Posts: 2375; Member since: 19 Jun 2010)
ITC proves they are on the side of Apple, Apple fanboys confirmed.
170. bellarockstarr (Posts: 3; Member since: 18 Jul 2011)
I think this is really upsetting and rediculous apple is Just Jealous of HTC because of popularity and their ability to have a variety of phones to select from where as apple only has the iphone to stand on apple is Just affraid of competition and on top of that they are money hungry and dont care about their costumers and didnt stop to think that if the worst case sonario happens they will not be able to release the us version of the optomous 3d aka thrill 4g s0 their screwing themselves up in the end. I have been a loyal customer of htc and proud android user since the G1 and from there I have had a HTC phone I stand behind HTC all they way 1000% team HTC Team android we will ride out this storm and beat apples Injustice acusations by all means keep ya head up
175. yokgcw< (unregistered)
Shop online at the official Mulberry site for women's bags, men's bags, leather accessories, briefcases, luggage, purses, wallets, shoes and womenswear, knockoff louis vuittoncheap louis vuitton backpack
176. glow (unregistered)
if Apple can sue for gestures, i would thinking LG should be able to sue every single touchscreen phone manufacturer out there since the very first touchscreen phone was the LG Prada . Only later did the iphone get released. for a touchscreen, how else are u going to operate e screen without using finger gestures?! so technically Apple copied e gestures from LG so Apple should stop suing other companies that are a 'threat' to their sales but instead find ways to make their devices more interesting to entice back lost customers. i rmb reading online that Apple has patents for storing contacts on the phone, if Apple really wants to ''protect it rights'', shouldn't it be suing EVERY phone manufacturer ? the only reason why they suing HTC and Samsung is bcos both companies (and Google's Android OS) are gona take over Apple's spot at the top. in fact more ppl are alr using Android phones. So what Apple is trying to do is get back its position by resulting to such dirty tricks
177. provera online (unregistered)
Really great article with very interesting information. You might want to follow up to this topic!?! 2012
179. lexapro (unregistered)
You have really interesting blog, keep up posting such informative posts!