ITC rules that HTC is violating two Apple patents, threatens all of Android
0. phoneArena 15 Jul 2011, 19:47 posted on
Apple had filed a lawsuit claiming that HTC infringed on 10 patents, and the ITC has ruled that HTC is indeed in violation of two of those patents, which could cause trouble for HTC in importing devices into the USA...
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1. AndroidOS (Posts: 100; Member since: 21 Jun 2011)
The violations are going to be reviewed by a six-person commission before it's official. And HTC can still fight the ruling.
So HTC still has a chance. Let's see what happens.
8. hepresearch (unregistered)
Apple is playing this very very well, and highly intelligently... the strategy is beginning to work, and after all it was only a matter of time and probability. When you start throwing enough crap around quickly enough, it will eventually stick to somebody.
27. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
while that is completely true, u forgot one side. you throw enough crap at someone, u better be made of teflon because people are going to start throwing crap back at you when they get hit.
I will bet money if Apple takes it too far, google will step in the lawsuit ring and protect its OS which it hasnt really done so far. Concidering how blatantly apple is copying android in iOS5, they arent on the most solid ground to sling mud.
dont wake the sleeping giant.
64. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Who got awarded patents to touchscreen gestures on a capacitive screen again? You're delusional. Google copies a lot from Apple, not the other way around. Also, Apple is bigger than google, so please.
71. Violent M*f* (unregistered)
Dude ur an ass-hole...!!! Google copying iOS ?? for ur info Apple never even invented the touch screen..!!
79. iSheepHunter (Posts: 55; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
Google copies nothing from Apple that Apple didn't already copy from Nokia and got sued for.
And what exactly did they steal from Apple again?
91. joseg81 (Posts: 188; Member since: 15 Jul 2011)
they stole they're customers. apple needs to stop f@#*in' crying and start competing for real. they need to get off their a$$es n overhaul their whole OS not just make it brighter n shinier to distract the idiots still using that tired a$$ OS.
93. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
If you can read the article there's two examples above.
Pinch to zoom
169. NeXoS (Posts: 286; Member since: 03 May 2011)
How the hell did Apple get a patent on pinch to zoom? Jeff Han gave that to the world WAY BEFORE the iPhone!
171. Pirate Ninja (unregistered)
Not sure if the ITC knows that. You should email them and let them know.... You could be the savior that HTC needs.
172. Pirate Ninja (unregistered)
Not sure the ITC knows that. you should email them and let them know..... YOu could be the saavior that HTC needs and put Apple in its place.
103. mlhazan (Posts: 1; Member since: 16 Jul 2011)
@530gemini poor guy ! Do you have any idea about google?Google don't copy from apple.Before posting like this you must avoid using Google search engine,Youtube,Gmail.BlogSpot ...In a sence just stop using internet.IOS is not bad but It can not stand with Android.IOS needs iphone to survive.Android is for multi platform.Here is the main difference,Poor Steve Jobs had tough time to compete with Bill Gates since the beginning and could not win and now having rough time with Google.
104. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
gestures? ur acting like they invented all gestures. Next you will say because they have a patent on "pinch to zoom", all onscreen gestures belong to apple.
Apple never copies from google huh? I wonder where that pull down notification bar, resizable widgets, and all sorts of other things in iOS5 came from. Did they invent that too and just forget to tell google when Android has been doing most of that since its beginning?
Tell me oh wise swuami!
55. E.N. (Posts: 2584; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)
Haha, like I posted earlier. Everyone was laughing at Apple saying things like "oh they're only suing because they're scared and don't know what to do" or "All of these suits are sad at best" but I told you guys not to be surprised if Apple is not blindly suing and actually has a case. Now matter how much you're anti-iPhone, Apple is not a stupid company just in case you guys haven't realized.
And really, the only thing Google can sue Apple for is the notifications. Android isn't the first company to do over-the air updates and be PC-free. Apple can sue for spell-check, the magnifiying glass that a lot of Android devices are now using, PINCH-ZOOM (that's a really big one), visual voicemail, similar designs (they're doing that already), peer-to-peer bluetooth gaming, the proximity sensor, accelerometer on a phone, first gyro-scope on a phone, etc etc etc. Android is just one big clone of iPhone and its about time starts protecting their OS and innovations.
What has Android innovated/created that Apple has ripped?
But hey, I'm an iPhone user so I realize that I'm probably biased. So other than pull-down for notifications, what has Apple copied from Android? (just so we can have a list and stop talking so subjectively). Make sure you point out things that Android actually invented/innovated and also that you realize that things like processors, megapixels, and LTE aren't Android innovations.
65. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Google can't sue Apple on the notification tray pull down. Even when google implemented it on notifications on android OS before iOS5, Apple already had that feature in iOS SDK way back then, and it's already been on several iOS apps since 2007. Apple has the right to use that gesture to display notifications. And the iphone's notification tray is customizable, android's not, which would make the iphone's notification tray look different and implemented differently as well. So let google try to sue Apple, that way the truth will be revealee that Apple actually had it before google :)
80. iSheepHunter (Posts: 55; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
iOS SDK was released in 2007, not before Android was created.
"And the iphone's notification tray is customizable, android's not, which would make the iphone's notification tray look different and implemented differently as well"
Please remeber that statement you just said.
So becase you can customize it( you can customize Android's tray too if you have a diferent launcher), it's completely different even though they look similar. So you can't say Android copied from iOS because "Android is more customizable, Apple is waay less, which would make it look different and implemented differently as well"
You're a hypocrite of the highest level. tsk tsk
84. iSheepHunter (Posts: 55; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
If you're going to try to stereotype Fandroids at least do it right. I rarely hear any of us posting about what Apple stole from Android.
Most of the posts are about the many features Apple stole from other operating systems, and yes, there are alot.
1. ios 5 notifications-android/web os/samsung touchwiz(slide to notifcations such as miss calls and messages from lockscreen
2 ios 5 quick camera access from lockscreen- copied from wp7
3 ios 5 volume shutter button- camera+ had this last year on their app but apple made them remove it because it was a private api and appl also said that it would confuse the users
4. iCloud symbol- stolen from devolper
5 iBooks copyright- in process of being sued for that
6 blackberry messanger (You can send texts, photos, videos, contact cards, and even engage in group messages. It displays delivery receipts, read receipts, and shows when others are typing. It's pushed to all devices and is supported by both 3G and wifi)
should I continue?
-Apple has been sued my Xerox for the alto GUI
-Elan Microelectronics- multitouch patent
-getting sued for S3 graphics
-emblaze sued them for a media tracking patent
They even thought they were gonna get away with stealing from NOKIA. Are they serious? NOKIA? FAIL.
Every company copies, I've come to terms with this.But copying is different from completely ripping off an idea and calling it yours and then not wanting to pay royalties
If you think for a second that a company is perfect and doesn't copy, that some of their ideas aren't at least inspired by other companies and that everything they use in a phone is completely original (some are)
YOU ARE A BLIND SHEEP
105. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
they stole so much from nokia, nokia got a fat settlement check and gets royalties from every iphone sold.
So does MS.
yup, thats 100% originality right there.
111. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
You do realize why Apple must pay royalties to Nokia? Nokia holds a patent on "A phone that uses 2G (GSM), 3G(UMTS), and WI-FI.". Every manufacturer on the PLANET that makes a phone for GSM networks cannot avoid that Patent.
I find it hard to believe anyone could be "original" under that context. I guess for a moron like you Apple would have had to make a GSM phone that used neither a GSM radio nor a Wifi chipset..... Oh wait they did its called an iPod Touch and the iPhone 4 CDMA (nokia holds ZERO CDMA patents.").
110. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
You are equally blind aswell. early Android was designed to be more inline with Blackberry OS but upon the success of the iPhone Google restructured Android.
Now, if you want to go on about what Apple stole then why not bring up what Android stole from Microsoft and how Gate's company is making royalties (That Manufacturers not google pay) off of every HTC and Samsung device and soon Motorola.
The biggest part of what was stolen that the iPhone created was a non carrier Application Store. The Apple was the only manufacturer to make their own phone that was completely divorced itself from the Brew-based market places forced by carriers. Now look at how Android phones, Windows phones, and even WebOS based phones all took this idea and ran with it. Before the iPhone app store most smartphones had to go to places like Handango and load apps through Mobile Browsers.
Either way the whole "this was stolen" BS is just that BS. BBM was just a reconfigured Instant messenger application that allowed Blackberry customers to avoid Texting charges by sending IMs to other Blackberries over a data network. You can't steal what has also been replicated OVER AND OVER by multiple third party Application vendors since 2007.... I suggest you look up PING which was a third party "BBM" style IM service.
146. E.N. (Posts: 2584; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)
I love how I was talking specifically about Android and you completely spun my post around to include every single company and then call me a blind sheep. And a lot of people (not all) are talking about Android and not what Apple used from other companies and saying things like "I will bet money if Apple takes it too far, google will step in the lawsuit ring and protect its OS which it hasnt really done so far".
And if Apple has been sued by so many companies, why is it bad for Apple to sue others? it sounds like you're the sheep.
and how did Apple copy Windows with the camera access? In Windows, your screen can be off and all you have to do is hold down camera button. In iPhone, your screen has to be lit, you double tap the home button, a camera icon appears on the screen and finally it takes you to camera. How is that the same?!?!? The destination is the same but the method in doing it so different.
2. luis_lopez_351 (Posts: 951; Member since: 18 Nov 2010)
Wow if HTC gets banned from US soil then Google(Android) and Microsoft(WP7/.5) are going to be all over this.
12. hepresearch (unregistered)
IF HTC gets banned, all of Android will be in great danger. This is the key to Apple's "nuclear option" against Google... if it goes through, iOS will have Android hooked by the nostrils... next, Samsung will get slammed, and then after the other OEM's retreat, Google's mobile OS division will take it straight in the face.
37. Rejeimha (Posts: 18; Member since: 29 Jul 2010)
"...after the other OEM's retreat..."
I highly doubt that any of the other OEMs are going to retreat. If anything they are going to join together with Google and push back at Apple.
Either way, the legal representatives will walk away laughing all the way to the bank, while the end consumer gets to enjoy the next top of the line smartphones with either OS for $400 on contract in order to pay for it all.
73. hepresearch (unregistered)
Agree with you on the "either way" comment. The attorneys are the only real winners this time. Handset prices, over time, will necessarily go up to pay for all the litigation insanity...
113. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
Dude if Android got banned the Manufacturers would just abandon the platform for another Alternative.
There is no "OMG ANDROID MANUFACTURER ALLIANCE!".... Android is merely used because it is a free OS they can use without having to do R&D into making there own OS. If Android vanished because of Apple they would just all hop on Window's Phone 7 en mass.
Really who is hurting Android the most is MS because they are forcing manufacturers to pay royalties per each Android handset sold and Google is doing nothing to help them.
66. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
It's unlikely that those android devices will be banned. But they will definitely have to pay Apple for using Apple's patented IP's. Requesting for a ban when filing an infringment case is pretty much standard every time a case is filed.
92. Slammer (Posts: 1498; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
I think that if anything is learned here, is that the USPTO is greatly fragmented in granting patents and Trademarks. Science and Technology today is so accelerated in expediting to the next level, that it is weighing heavy burdon on the office to push through any patents. I would be willing to wager that half or more of these scientific and technological patent and trademark requests are not even read thoroughly, or even at all by the office personnel reviewing them. Who has the time? There are literally thousands of applications filed daily for patents alone.
Since Apple has been patent and trademark hungry lately, they have somewhat taken advantage of this and benefited by the overworked and antiquated department. Broad generalization patents now become more prevalent while actually overlapping other patents. If we all look at this logically, in the few short years that touch screens,UIs, operating systems etc, have advanced so rapidly, it shouldn't surprise us that it comes to this.
Apple celebrates by high fiving themselves with this victory all while stealing from other's R&D at a time when the office is bogged down with stacks of backlogged material. Not to discredit Apple however, as other manufactures are more less doing the same.
This makes a mockery of our patent and trademark office proceedures. Pathetic!
83. snowgator (Posts: 3515; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
I agree with Gemini on this one. As Microsoft uses it's patents as a cash cow, so Apple will against these IF they hold up. I do not think either the trade commision or Apple want Google gone- just want their patents honored. I did feel once you took your preference out of the equation, Apple had a case. Yes, Apple may have taken ideas from other systems for their OS, but that didn't have any bearing in these precedings.
However, I worry about the far reaching effect on Google- at what point does the free OS stop being free? If HTC, Samsung, Motorola and a host of others have to pay left and right for using Droid OS, and jump through legal hoops, is it cost effective to keep using it? If Droid only gets popped for infringement in the States due to Microsoft and Apple, will we in the U.S. suffer for it with a lack of choice? It is kinda crap that the rest of the world is enjoying the Samsung GS2 and we are not. I do not want to see that as the rule as opposed to the exception.
106. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
we aren't enjoying the SGS2 because the US carriers are holding up its launch with their demands for what should be on the phone, design changes, ect. That has nothing to do with the apple-samsung lawsuit.
Samsung just needs to make a universal SGS2 thats capable of any network and sell it unlocked until the carriers give in.
112. Whateverman (Posts: 3248; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Problem is, Apple isn't asking for cash. They're asking to ban other cell manufacturers from the US. They're using the US patent office as a means to illuminate it's biggest competitor, Google. Apple could care less about HTC, they just want Google out of the picture and they can't do it with their OS, so they're chipping away at Android one piece at a time. Hopefully, the USPO will change a few things before this becomes a much bigger problem.
115. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
Dude if MS continues to enforce Royalties on Android handsets the platform will eventually die just because it will not be "Free".
With Patent trials all companies aim for the harshest maximum penalty inorder to force a Royalty settlement. That is how it goes. Your notion that they are going after Google is absurd especially since in all truth if Apple wanted Google out of the way they could just BUY Google...... Apple is the FAR RICHER company between the two..
I mean really if they wanted Android dead they could just buy up google and divest the division that makes Android as a seperate company to avoid Antitrust Regulations. Doing that would force the new company to require liscensing fees as the only reason the OS is free is due to it just being another Analytics farm for google to sell.
All the while the deal would be completely legal (And Profitable) because Apple does not compete with Google on anything but Browser and Phone/Tablet OS.
3. RORYREVOLUTION (Posts: 3101; Member since: 12 Jan 2010)
Apple needs to grow up and realize they aren't the only kids that can play on the playground. Did Apple go on a suing frenzy when phones like the Voyager and Instinct were around? Of course not, because they have nothing to fear. Android is taking over and Apple is afraid, that's why they are suing and trying to stop Android phones from being imported to the US.
6. vvelez5 (Posts: 623; Member since: 29 Jan 2011)
You have to protect your intellectual properties. Not an Apple fanboy either I just believe in keeping what is yours or at least being paid for it.
10. RORYREVOLUTION (Posts: 3101; Member since: 12 Jan 2010)
You honestly think Apple invented everything? Including being the first touch screen cell phone? You would be incorrect.
17. stealthd (unregistered)
No one said they did. Stop making stupid straw-man arguments.
25. RORYREVOLUTION (Posts: 3101; Member since: 12 Jan 2010)
Then they have no right to sue anyone.
29. stealthd (unregistered)
39. vvelez5 (Posts: 623; Member since: 29 Jan 2011)
Who claims that? Doesn't mean Apple doesn't have any patents that they have the right and should protect.
30. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
you have every right to protect your property. But apple is as guilty as anyone.. if not more.. of blatantly ripping off people's ideas. touch screen smart phones were around long before apple and they stole from others. They already have to pay nokia and MS for every iphone sold, if they keep it up google will hopefully step in the ring, and by the time they are done showing all the iOS5 simillarities to android, they will be getting paid by apple as well
32. RORYREVOLUTION (Posts: 3101; Member since: 12 Jan 2010)
You are right, you have every right to protect your property. If you invented it yourself. Not when you copy and steal from others.
34. stealthd (unregistered)
Which is why Apple sued in the first place. They have the patents, they have the right to sue. Why is that so hard to understand?
35. yrusoignorant (unregistered)
Because on the internets there is no reasoning with people. If they argue they figure you will give in and they will win.
49. E.N. (Posts: 2584; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)
Wow, I can't believe you're saying Apple copied touch screen smartphones. Just because they weren't first, doesn't mean they should get sued for making a touch screen device. That's like suing Toyota for making cars after Ford made the first one or suing Apple for making computers after Microsoft. Just doesn't make sense.
Companies have ripped off Apple so much more than Apple has to any other company. And like you said, Apple is already paying some companies for every phone sold. Now its time for the copiers to pay-up. If the pull-down menu is so important to Google, they should fight fire with fire and sue Apple right back. If they don't think its similar enough to take it to court, then that's their problem.
107. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
personally i think google is trying to stay out of it directly because they make so much money on the iphone. It would be a big hit monentarily if apple went with say Bing instead of Google as their search provider and started locking out google apps.
Of course that would be bad for apple as well as it would turn away users. Google makes some of the most important stuff on anyone's phone OS.
Google is the smartest no matter what phone u use. They already make tons of money off of EVERYBODY.
11. luis_lopez_351 (Posts: 951; Member since: 18 Nov 2010)
HTC also manufactures WP7 phones too you know. its not always about android.
18. hepresearch (unregistered)
Microsoft has been more closely allied with Apple as of late, than with Google. If this does go through, I see WP7 trying to cannibalize Android market share, and iOS picking up most of it without so much as a whimper from anybody else. A WP7/iOS two-horse race is more mutually ideal for Microsoft and Apple. Getting rid of Google's Android will take the pressure to compete off of them, and free up their resources for fighting off the last of Blackberry/QNX and webOS. The others are already lost.
5. mr. droid (Posts: 278; Member since: 21 Aug 2010)
dont talk bad about apple. they will probably come and sue each one of us individually by tracking our phones and try to charge us with slander.
21. hepresearch (unregistered)
shhhh... that's why I said what I said earlier. If it looks like I favor iOS, maybe Steve Jobs will let me stay here longer...
haha... well, time to cancel this post so it never gets posted... wouldn't want Steve to know...
74. hepresearch (unregistered)
Yeah, reminds me of something my grandfather would have tried to turn into a joke... major groaner...
+1 to E.N.
155. mr. droid (Posts: 278; Member since: 21 Aug 2010)
because apple is a sad attempt at a phone manufacturer and nothing but a sue-happy evil giant that people get sucked into because of big advertising (smart on apples part really) but they really created their own reputation and in doing so gained an insurmountable amount of loyal followers.
I guess in some way, the same could be said for android.
7. Superguy (unregistered)
Apple is turning out to be a patent troll..
15. stealthd (unregistered)
Patent trolls don't actually make a product. You're not a patent troll when you make the top selling smartphone and tablet.
31. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
the top selling OS is android by a wide margin. The iphone may be the top selling device, but apple makes more money off the apps on iOS than it ever will of the physical device.
Its all about OS sales, not phone sales. People need to realize that. And in that sence, iOS has been in real trouble for a while from the android onslaught. Apple is suing everyone for survival.
33. stealthd (unregistered)
Considering this article is about HTC and Apple, device sales are completely relevant and OS sales are completely irrelevant (except in the wider possible implications of these patents in regard to other android device manufacturers).
And how is iOS in trouble? Every Android sale isn't an iPhone convert. Android sells because it's on every carrier at every price point. It's playing its own game, not beating Apple at theirs.
Besides bringing up market share is a total joke considering how weak of a platform Android is. They have the biggest chunk of market share yet they still can't attract developers, and developer support is the real measure of a platforms strengths. So why can't Android get any decent developers? Because no one buys it for being "open", they buy it because it's on every carrier at every price point. Android is the smartphone for cheap-skates, and it's pretty obvious how a platform that caters to the frugal isn't necessarily going to be the best one out there.
All Android is doing is replacing dumb phones.
62. p0rkguy (Posts: 685; Member since: 23 Nov 2010)
The response of an Apple fanboy lol.
"And how is iOS in trouble? Every Android sale isn't an iPhone convert. Android sells because it's on every carrier at every price point. It's playing its own game, not beating Apple at theirs."
They're playing the real game, selling phones. Apple is playing it's own game and is now trying to sell their product onto all carriers.
"Android is the smartphone for cheap-skates, and it's pretty obvious how a platform that caters to the frugal isn't necessarily going to be the best one out there."
Last I checked the iPhone was one of the most frugal phones out there. The iPhone just shatters once it drops over 2 feet. I've dropped my phone over 50 times and I have a couple of dents here and there but never as serious as an iPhone drop.
"All Android is doing is replacing dumb phones."
Recent studies show that the iPhone is replacing phones for dumb people.
9. vvelez5 (Posts: 623; Member since: 29 Jan 2011)
Interesting. I doubt HTC would be banned from selling phones in the US though it is a possible outcome. I don't blame Apple for protecting their intellectual properties but I am a little annoyed by the number of lawsuits going around from each mobile phone manufacture. Sometimes I do wish that everyone would just play ball. But I guess we have to understand that in such a competitive market any advantage, no matter how small, can make the difference in being the best or the worst manufacture.
13. jamie1988 (Posts: 2; Member since: 15 Jul 2011)
all i can say is WOW steve jobs REALLY.what a cry baby you had your time now its over cant beat them in sales so you Sue what a B***h