Huawei says Tizen is doomed, Windows Phone - money down the drain
0. phoneArena 25 Aug 2014, 09:14 posted on
A Wall Street Journal interview with Huawei's top honcho, Consumer Business Group CEO Richard Yu, reveals the thinking and key strategic choices of a company that, along with several others, has been on the rise lately...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
59. PhoneLuver (Posts: 481; Member since: 05 Jul 2010)
It's almost as if nobody wants to face the fact that people just don't like WP! It's that simple! The metro design just doesn't do it for the majority of customers! Heck I don't like it on my pc either. Add to that the endless scrolling to find apps, the lack of apps, setting up corporate e-mail accounts (This should sooo simple right?!?!) etc makes it a dead, smelly fish! No amount of "pushing" the product into my face will make the customer change his mind!
Let's face it, it's also the real reason Nokia went under!
35. brrunopt (Posts: 742; Member since: 15 Aug 2013)
Wheres a though , how about they making a decent competitive WP device ?
maybe that way they would sell a few units and don't lose money ...
41. sgodsell (Posts: 2981; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
Like he said WP is money down the drain. Look no one including Microsoft is making money from WP. With only 7.4 million WP for all of Q2 2014 and declining at that. Also with Microsoft making over 90% of all the WP device sales. There isn't a lot of room for anyone else to get on board. Think about it. Both Samsung and HTC have been making WP devices from the beginning even before Nokia made any WP devices. Even LG, Dell, and some others made some WP devices at the beginning, but left because they were loosing tons of money on WP. Even now with Microsoft making WP free for OEMs, and all the rumors going around that Microsoft is willing to pay OEMs to make WP devices for them. The other problem is WP is still very limited and restricted. You can only use specific components like a select number Qualcomm CPUs only.
46. Liveitup (Posts: 1798; Member since: 07 Jan 2014)
Yeah WP is down the drain yet at least 16 new devices are coming for the remainder of the year. WP had different OEM's but the OS was not license free now it is that is a big difference. Samsung lost market share if Samsung represented as much of Android the way Nokia represents WP Android on a whole would have dropped as well then that must mean Android is no good right?, What is happening with WP is great, the more OEMs produce WP and port high-end devices like what HTC did its better for WP. Keep wishing WP death the more you do is the more OEM'S, Apps, users come on board.
Keep hating till your fingers fall off the OS will flourish.
52. joey_sfb (Posts: 5181; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)
Liveitup, no amount of bricking will change the fact that WP market share is still declining Qtr. by Qtr..
iPhone 6 larger screen, Samsung Note 4, XiaoMi Mi 4 will ensure the decline continue for the coming Qtrs.
54. sgodsell (Posts: 2981; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
Everything I said was the truth. You just can't handle it. Facts are facts are they not. Is WP decling? Yes it is. Does Microsoft sell over 90% of all the WP devices currently being sold on the market? Yes its a fact. So that means roughly only 740,000 WP devices are split between Samsung, HTC, and Huawei WP OEMs. That's almost nothing for an entire quarter. Even if we are generous and say that 85% is for Microsoft's Nokia, then that leaves 1.1 million WP devices to be split amongst all the WP OEMS. That is still a drop in that barrel, and not worth it for any OEM to invest in right now.
Does WP only support Qualcomm CPUs only? Yes that is a fact. Did LG, Dell, Samsung, HTC, and a few others make WP devices at the beginning. Yes that is a fact. Did LG and Dell drop out after WP 7. Yes that is a fact. I bring facts to the table. You like to make up crap.
56. Liveitup (Posts: 1798; Member since: 07 Jan 2014)
Everything that you say may be the truth but it lacks perspective, everything I said is also the truth here is how. Percentage wise yes WP declined last quarter, yet in hard numbers it added 7 million more users last quarter that makes it more WP users than ever before in its history so it compared to last year in terms of percentage but it grew of actual users. That is perspective.
Yes HTC , Samsung and others made WP in the past but again you don't tell the whole story. They had to pay Microsoft then to make WP now the OS is free you even see others like HTC start making WP again, again perspective.
In the past Microsoft placed hardware restrictions on WP now those restrictions have been lifted. WP is growing appwise. Its users see keeps growing as comscore has documented. Android and iOS are influenced design wise by Windows Phone.
You say you talk truth but its not the whole truth just part of it , you are full of crap. Guys like you only want an Android monopoly it has over 85% of the market. I want choice.
Grow up quit trolling.
57. juandante (Posts: 462; Member since: 23 Apr 2013)
Livitdown, you are a Microsoft shill. Pure non sense is coming from your mouth everyday, and growing shtwise.
While WP have removed one hardware restriction from others, on Android's side there is almost no hardware restriction to run the latest OS. Android is already compatible with 64 bit chips and can run on an infinite type of hardware.
There is no need on the hardware side to restrict yourself, with WP, and manufacturers understand this. The only place users keep growing for WP is in your head.
99% of my friends who had WP, and they where very very few sent there Nokia in the dustbin because it is limited and useless for everyday life.
HTC made a WP device because Microsoft paid them, and it is not even like it is a new device, the review of Phonearena will confirm this to you. HTC don't have no reason to compete on Microsoft territory and all there dedicated apps that can have access to API that only Microsoft have authorisation.
People don't want monopoly, but people don't want WP limited, ugly, coming from a trojan company that everyone knows and is Microsoft.
47. brrunopt (Posts: 742; Member since: 15 Aug 2013)
Samsung , making WP devices ? they just went to the trashcan and put WP on it... They lunced only 2 or 3 devices in 2 years..
HTC , few devices and not very price-friendly ...
its not declining, they sold the same amount of devices as in the previous quarter
And the number declined compared to the previous year because there arent new devices on the market
3. pokharkarsaga (Posts: 381; Member since: 23 Feb 2012)
WP+Nokia=ios+iPhone,tizen is already dead before launch & then remains android.
7. nokia12 (Posts: 462; Member since: 19 Nov 2013)
wp is alone .. there is no nokia in it, its all MS .. nokia is waiting for 2016 to comeback in android and bring us the
superpurerview camera + Android + bullet proof build quality + sexy design + Here Maps +
N O K I A 's glory
18. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Kinda difficult for them to do that when they're owned by Microsoft.
25. inlinev (Posts: 16; Member since: 02 Feb 2014)
They sold their smartphone / devices division and associated assets to Microsoft. As a part of the agreement, they are prohibited from competing in the device market until some time in 2016. The deal also included patent license agreements between Nokia and Microsoft but Nokia maintains ownership and control over HERE Maps / Drive with a long term licensing agreement to Microsoft.
In theory, they would be able to release a handset of their choosing in 2016. However, the viability for that is severely diminished because they sold most of their production assets to Microsoft. They could still subcontract through Foxconn or another firm like them but that is likely to cut into profitability. Furthermore, being out of the device market for several years might as well be a lifetime. It is always possible though.
53. Damo579 (Posts: 242; Member since: 18 May 2013)
Also Sniggly there was an article a week or two ago saying that Nokia posted jobson LinkedIn for people who know how to program on Android.
16. Nexus4lifes (Posts: 155; Member since: 13 Feb 2014)
WP+Nokia = ios+iphone - (sales + a functional OS + a sensible set of working apps)
26. ManusImperceptus (Posts: 724; Member since: 10 Jun 2014)
Completely ignorant post. The only reality in your equation is the lack of sales. WP is at least as functional as iOS, not to mention a heck of a lot more stylish. WP is pushing on 200.000 apps, including all the heavyweights minus Google's...
32. inlinev (Posts: 16; Member since: 02 Feb 2014)
I see what you did there. We can just as easily flip that equation.
Microsoft+OEM+Windows+Servers+Desktops+Laptops+Tablets = Mac+OSX - (Sales+Support+Enterprise+Platforms+Scale)
In reality, the weaknesses that OSX has relative to Windows doesn't diminish the value for the millions of people who use Mac. Of the three factors that you used to, "balance" the equation for Windows Phone, two of them are a null value with "Sales" being relative. The total number of Mac OSX users is roughly equivalent to those using Windows Phone. Windows Phone may always be a challenger or it may surprise us all but for those of us who use it, it is a wonderful platform.
I fail to understand why market analysis is used to diminish or bolster technological platforms. As one who appreciates technology and vision, the market will never define what I use. Android and iPhone gets the job done for millions of people around the world but choice is good for everyone. Many people still mourn the passing of WebOS and many of those people are still using it. As far as I'm concerned, that is a good thing.
Passion is what drives innovation. That passion is what drove Steve Jobs to push the envelope when many considered them to be down and out. I am not an, "Apple guy" but I appreciate what they did. In reality, we are all beneficiaries. They introduced new standards for quality and interaction that have changed the landscape on a massive scale.
In my opinion, Microsoft is actually a better company because Apple raised the stakes. They have also taken an equal measure of inspiration from Google and Microsoft's success with cloud services reflect that. Office 365 is a run away success and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Again, we are all the beneficiaries from Google's innovation in the market. That includes those who use their services as well as those of their competitors.
In like kind, Apple and Google take inspiration from Microsoft and many others in the market as well. What is the point? If you love technology, you will encourage more platforms, more choice and success for all of them. It's pretty cool when you think about it but it could just be me.
42. sgodsell (Posts: 2981; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
Wow, Office 365 a runaway success is it. Back in June Office 365 had 1 million users. So is that a runaway success. Or is selling 255 million Android smart phones last quarter a success? Oh, and Android is still maintaining 65% of all the tablet sales. Microsoft and its hype machine. Everyone cannot live without Microsoft Office. Tell that to the millions of people who have Android devices and that don't use MS Office. Considering there are tons of other office products and a lot of them free and very good as well. No one wants to be locked down anymore. Microsoft has a habit of that with their products in the past. People don't forget what Microsoft was like. As the saying goes, a leopard can't change its spots.
45. AfterShock (Posts: 3698; Member since: 02 Nov 2012)
The world got tired of renting Office, agreed.
55. 0xFFFF (Posts: 3806; Member since: 16 Apr 2014)
"Microsoft and its hype machine. Everyone cannot live without Microsoft Office."
Thank you for bringing this up. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I have ever worked who has used Microsoft Office wants to dump it. There is absolutely no interest in "more Microsoft Office".
Especially when all Microsoft has to offer is a "pay forever" plan that holds your documents hostage to their licensing, contracts and spyware ridden apps.
Pushing forever pay Microsoft Office on people is exactly how to get people to flee in a hurry. Just one of the many reasons WP is sinking like a stone.
4. AfterShock (Posts: 3698; Member since: 02 Nov 2012)
Not many want to saddle up a dead horse.
5. Felix_Gatto (Posts: 891; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)
We should give a warm welcome to the fresh platform such as Tizen, Firefox OS, Sailfish, and Ubuntu Touch. In the other side WP is an old contender because it exists since 4 years ago and still can't bring a good profit.
9. xperiaDROID (banned) (Posts: 5629; Member since: 08 Mar 2013)
A warm welcome is a must to the fresh platforms, but Tizen is really not ready for the smartphone and tablets yet, even Samsung Z is scrapped.
11. Felix_Gatto (Posts: 891; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)
Samsung is a huge company, they have a lot of resources to make an OS. l think they just need more time.
29. elitewolverine (Posts: 4909; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)
It just goes to show how hard it really is to bring any OS into this one/two horse race.
Right now any company that does will have to not only market their os, but bring devs over. Currently Android gets all the free marketing. Google doesnt have to have a 'os commercial'. Samsung does it for them, so does all the other oem's. So you have to market against giants, and then market in the sales area.
Every time i go into a store and tell them i need this or this, i am constantly shown a phone that is not what i wanted (part of a test program we do for sales agents).
6. xperiaDROID (banned) (Posts: 5629; Member since: 08 Mar 2013)
The Yu has spoken the truth.
Tizen is indeed doomed, it's not because I look down on it, it's just that it's not ready to be on smartphones and tablets yet, take Samsung Z for example. Tizen is only suitable for smartwatches for now.
Microsoft'ed Nokia is the biggest competitor on the Windows Phone market, the others should just stick to Android, there's no way to beat the Microsoft'ed Nokia in Windows Phone. No one even buys a Windows Phone from Huawei, so there's a point for that.
8. itsdeepak4u2000 (Posts: 3696; Member since: 03 Nov 2012)
Android is a very modern and smart OS.
MS was so lazy with their execution with no apps and games in WP store. Poor Nokia.
And iOS is a very good feature phone OS. ;)
I think Sammy did the mistake with Bada, so having same fate for Tizen also even before launch. As it has very tough competition from upcoming Android One and new entrants like Firefox OS, Ubuntu, etc.
17. freebee269 (Posts: 535; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)
Anyone who says windows phone has no apps or games is just trolling. It has over 300k. That's a lot more than no apps or games. It also has most of the popular apps. What it lacks in is the user specific apps like your favorite bank or favorite music streaming service, etc. But to say it has no apps or games is completely false.
21. Adrian38 (Posts: 141; Member since: 05 Nov 2012)
I think when people say "WP has no apps" they mean that they have no apps that people care about Lol Yeah, they have 300k+ apps but they don't have some very important apps. And without those apps, they'll never come close to being a serious contender.
44. Cicero (Posts: 836; Member since: 22 Jan 2014)
Take a look at wpstore. And you will find a lot of craps apps from the home page. And I am talking about faking apps with no value which trying to confuse you. Also having bank, carrier, music, video, travel and your choice of the rest favorites (Google made apps or another one) is a must of using a today phone/os. Why to carry wp heights. Choose what 8s fitting you now. When wp will be ready I will give it a try. I tried already and neh.
27. ManusImperceptus (Posts: 724; Member since: 10 Jun 2014)
They lack a handful of important apps, mainly Google's. An example: Every major Danish bank has a WP app...
33. inlinev (Posts: 16; Member since: 02 Feb 2014)
I don't think that Google will ever release their apps for Windows Phone. The question is whether they need to be. I'm sure they would top the charts if they did but it would also open the door to more competition. I recently closed my Google account because of this. But frankly, I wasn't using their services. Many people may believe that they are indispensible but in reality, the competition has matched or beaten their quality in key areas like search. By trying to mitigate competing platforms, they are actually encouraging competition and providing the proof that they aren't the only game in town. It's kind-of interesting when you think about the implications.
20. Liveitup (Posts: 1798; Member since: 07 Jan 2014)
Android aesthetically is trying to look modern with its Material UI which clearly takes inspiration Microsoft's modern UI. WP app gap is closing though ill agree with you Microsoft is complete s**t when it comes to execution, hate there marketing , besides what you put in to marketing an OS is what you get out Heuwei basically really a couple WP and they talk BS with putting any backing into the OS. WP has tons of potential and have inspired both Android and iOS in UI design and certain feature, MS just really sucks at marketing, so can't expect OEM's to put in the effort when the owners dont.
If you look at where WP is gaining ground like the UK where its above 8% etc they promote WP.
34. AfterShock (Posts: 3698; Member since: 02 Nov 2012)
Before it was fastest growing OS, then it was another thing now its copying wp for the flat look,
No one on this planet cares for WP, especially enough to copy a dead dying platform.
Spain I believe it is, the only place in the world where its above 4%, off the frigging charts. It close to non existent.
48. ManusImperceptus (Posts: 724; Member since: 10 Jun 2014)
"No one on this planet cares for WP"
Ignorant comment. I like the platform, so I care. There, you've just been proven wrong.
49. AfterShock (Posts: 3698; Member since: 02 Nov 2012)
Technicality of minute numbers, let me adjust that for you..
No OEM on this planet really wants to make WP.
(without being paid to make it)
22. Ibrahim.hashmi (Posts: 3; Member since: 22 Aug 2014)
almost all comonly used apps are availble on wp .. After 8.1 update wp becomes a totally baked os
10. Ashoaib (Posts: 3223; Member since: 15 Nov 2013)
Tizen is dead bcoz samsung is reluctant to launch devices with it... when original manufacturer is reluctant how other companies can experiment with it?
13. GreekGeek (Posts: 1276; Member since: 22 Mar 2014)
They haven't learned from the BADA mistake.
Tizen is just an Androidized version of this dead OS.
14. joey_sfb (Posts: 5181; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)
The king of Android is struggling to.keep its leading position due to the onslaught of great value devices from smaller Chinese companies.
Putting R & D on Tizen and producing its device would not counter the value Xiaomi represents.
Samsung need new interesting feature not available in cheaper smartphone. Or discover another niche market and grow from there.
38. inlinev (Posts: 16; Member since: 02 Feb 2014)
If Samsung is reluctant to launch it, it could be related to their membership in the Open Handset Alliance. Google has a tremendous amount of leverage over their OEM partners. In theory, that is limited to Google's Android vs the AOSP source but when you consider services, Google can kill a competing OS by restricting their services access for that platform. That is exactly what they have done with Windows Phone for years.
If Samsung were to push for Tizen using competing services, they risk their membership in the OHA and their cash cow. If that isn't anti-competitive, it certainly qualifies as bad karma. If I were Samsung, I'd tell Google to shove it and I'd go all in with several competing platforms. Google seems to avoid the stigma or being the bad guy despite their questionable practices.
58. juandante (Posts: 462; Member since: 23 Apr 2013)
Seriously, I don't care if Google can kill competing OS. What I care about is that I don't have any Microsoft BS in my mobile.
That is the consequence of using Trojan Horses and badly closed source code.
23. inlinev (Posts: 16; Member since: 02 Feb 2014)
I'm going to continue to root for the underdog. Windows Phone stands a good chance as the third ecosystem. That is the key distinction. Windows Phone is more than just another mobile OS. This seems to be an odd time to put Windows Phone on hold for Huawei. Many of their competitors are ramping up support for Windows Phone.
The platform is expanding hardware support, making it easier for OEM's to use existing Android handsets for Windows Phone, they have dropped licensing for devices that are 8 inches or smaller and Huawei could save money for Android patent royalties to Microsoft for each Windows Phone that they sell. I suspect that this is a soft hold on their part.
30. 0xFFFF (Posts: 3806; Member since: 16 Apr 2014)
Yu confirms pretty much everything I've been saying about WP for a long time.
The complete truth of the matter is that pretty every mobile company feels the same way. If it weren't for the checks from Microsoft -- which don't cover all the costs for some makers -- they wouldn't even make WP phones at all. Just money down the drain.
39. AfterShock (Posts: 3698; Member since: 02 Nov 2012)
That is going to leave a mark on the forehead of some WP fans.
37. arenanew (Posts: 258; Member since: 30 Dec 2013)
is huwaei is any company i dont know what is hauwaei and phone arena or google paid to phonearena
40. elitewolverine (Posts: 4909; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)
T-Mobile Prism is one of their devices...prism 2 as well Not to mention the myTouch 4g and slider phones too.
Just look at those amazing specs...
Sorry they couldnt compete against Nokia in the WP space, and when you dont release a mobile OS and market it, this is what you get. They are struggling even in the Android market.
43. NateAdam8 (Posts: 388; Member since: 17 Feb 2012)
And Huawei knows this when they're losing in sales to better OEMs but it's just one opinion.
50. VLaRueC (Posts: 174; Member since: 18 Dec 2012)
Huawei is the RCA of phone companies except over seas. This article is like RCA saying they won't be making a line of televisions. At the end of the day, it's RCA..