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HTC throws a punch at Nokia: Lumia 920 is much heavier than the Windows Phone 8X

0. phoneArena 31 Oct 2012, 05:36 posted on

Lately, Nokia is the company throwing its swagger around and loudly proclaiming how much better its devices are, but HTC won’t just stay and listen to its trash talk…

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 05:40 61

1. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 2992; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)


Simple...because the 8X is empty!! :D

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 05:44 22

2. wendygarett (unregistered)


LOL +1 for that :)

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:54 4

37. MeoCao (unregistered)


Those 2 OEMs are fighting hard but does it matter in the end?

The phones specs are outdated: Nexus 4, One X+, XiaoMi Mi-2 and Note 2 .. have quad core CPU and much more advanced OS, a hord of new 5" 1080p phones are to be relased in a few months.

I particularly feel sad for Nokia: they try very hard and have a lot of innovations but their efforts were ruined by late introduction of WP8. But that's their decision: siding with an aging and failing company which has "become a government" as some1 put it.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 08:22 9

43. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


Screen size and core count aren't everything. Show me a regular, everyday user who wouldn't be as well served on a Windows Phone than an Android. Oh, wait, you can't. The Windows Phones run the same chips, architecture, RAM count, screen resolution, etc, as all but the quad-core androids, and does so better because it doesn't need an obscene amount of power to work. Just like there are V6 engines with as much power and resilience as a V8, efficiency and design can beat inefficiency and quick messy compensation.
You androiders should be cheering Nokia on. Every Nokia sold means less consumer reliance on iPhones, something I think we can all agree is a good thing. At least we know Nokia isn't "litigation without innovation" like the fruit stand.

Also: HTC threw a punch at Nokia. It hit, but the hand broke, and Nokia took no damage.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 08:38 4

46. JamesHunt (Posts: 37; Member since: 01 Oct 2012)


Adding to your comment , After some days these so called " outdated" phones will run the latest and the greatest games available for other platforms. Its not the same WP fram last months. Its Wp8 !

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 08:31 8

44. wp8forever (unregistered)


Really u think is outdated what exactly, the fastest and brightest screen is or maybe the wireless charging is or maybe the best camera is outdated, or maybe the design lol you too funny is like saying a Nissan gtr has a v6 engine is outdated right that's why is smoking those Mustang with v8 and the lexus with a v10 remember is no how much power u have is how u used and wp8 optimization is way way over android learn nernd learn.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 09:01 8

49. StreetNerd (Posts: 700; Member since: 08 Dec 2010)


MeoCao is a known hater.... just ignore =]

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 10:19 5

63. arsenaljimenez (Posts: 137; Member since: 03 May 2012)


hahah I know, every comment he/she makes
fight as much as you want, wp8 is coming and its coming harddd

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 11:59 2

69. Beiron (Posts: 1; Member since: 31 Oct 2012)


Lumia 920 got LTE, Nexus 4 don´t. No specs of Nexus could compensate for this in 2012

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 12:38 2

72. wassup (Posts: 565; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)


Nexus 4 has Android, no specs of 920 can compensate for this.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 12:41 2

73. chaoticrazor (Posts: 2347; Member since: 28 Aug 2012)


ohh come on thats such a fanboy comment

is this just because nokia didnt go android now you android fans have to attack anything they do

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 12:53 2

75. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 2992; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)


Lol, Wassup...
You sound like a l'le boy boasting about this new book he got...'Hey dude, check out my new book, it has chapters in it'.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 05:51 19

3. sadaivadai (Posts: 156; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)


Nokia should use this as their reply ..

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:00 14

9. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 2992; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)


Contact them for me...:D

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 05:56 2

8. nd_arn (Posts: 14; Member since: 16 Oct 2012)


yeah . u r right
JUST -------> NOKIA LUMIA 920

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:01 8

10. neutralguy (Posts: 1152; Member since: 30 Apr 2012)


you sir made my night. :))

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:12 7

13. lubba (Posts: 1310; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)


It feels good sometimes to be a fanboy doesn't it?

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:24 3

27. akishakoi (Posts: 65; Member since: 06 Dec 2011)


u nailed it!

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:38 10

28. Kronic (banned) (Posts: 321; Member since: 11 Sep 2012)


Obviously because lumia 920 is 80% more advanced. Nokia is the king of windows phone.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:46 2

31. zuckerboy (Posts: 898; Member since: 22 Dec 2011)


920 is bulky. if u wanna carry brick with u get the 920

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 10:53 2

64. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 2992; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)


If the BRICK has the most sensitive touchscreen with OIS and wireless charging along with quality and trust of good built and HAS 920 written over it then yes, i'll carry the brick!! Need i add more???

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 08:04 5

40. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


As a professional photographer once told me, you have to have the right tool for the job, and if that means lugging around two stage cases of camera bodies and lenses for one sporting event, so be it, as long as you can accomplish the tasks at hand. So what if the 920 happens to have a tad bit more weight? You only get one chance to capture life's moments, so use the best equipment possible, so if a new modern smartphone with a camera is what meets that criteria, there is only one choice, the Lumia 920. Not only that, you get Nokia's legendary build, calling, and reception qualities, much better screen (which is usable outdoors in sunlight!), and none of the worries that have been plaguing HTC of late. The WP8X may be a great phone and a signature phone, it isn't the best nor the flagship, nor the one capturing the public's attention

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 09:38

57. dexter_jdr (Posts: 1090; Member since: 28 Jun 2012)


Reasons why htc 8x weighs lighter :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcq3ZFxgLrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPd32rO-90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hbl1fud3dg

--help me spam this haha

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 09:32

54. dexter_jdr (Posts: 1090; Member since: 28 Jun 2012)


Reasons why htc 8x weighs lighter :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgUzVEB6Ud8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPd32rO-90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hbl1fud3dg

posted on 06 Nov 2012, 03:28

86. gothicheart (Posts: 82; Member since: 17 Oct 2012)


completely agree with you bro. I'm not sure why phonearena would post an article like this when the could have posted this one...

Hey HTC, Here is Why The Nokia Lumia 920 is Worth Carrying the Extra “20 Pennies Around"

http://pureviewclub.com/2012/7210

1) It gets you a bigger screen:
The Nokia Lumia 920 has a 4.5 inch PureMotion HD+ display; 1,280×768 pixels.
The HTC WP 8X has a 4.3 inch Super LCD 2; 1,280×720 pixels.

2) It gets you a better camera:
The Nokia Lumia 920 has a 8.7-mp camera with OIS and “pureview technology”
The HTC WP 8X has an 8mp with “zero shutter lag”
How big of a difference does this make? Check out the low light test done by The Verge comparing the two.

3) It gets you double the memory:
The Nokia Lumia 920 has 32GB of internal memory
The HTC WP 8X has 16GB of internal memory

4) It gets you a bigger battery:
The Nokia Lumia 920 has a 2000 mah Battery
The HTC WP 8X has a 1800 mAh Battery

5) It gets you more connectable to your other devices:
The Nokia Lumia 920 has Bluetooth 4.0
The HTC WP 8X has Bluetooth 2.1

6) It gets you wireless charging:
The Nokia Lumia 920 has wireless charging
The HTC WP 8X doesn’t have wireless charging

7) It gets you better apps:
The Nokia Lumia 920 has exclusive Nokia apps like Angry Birds Roost, Vimeo, Red Bull, Nokia Music, Bloomberg, Groupon, etc…
The HTC WP 8X has exclusive HTC apps like the HTC Hub, Flashlight, and a compass

So there it is, Kevin’s roundup of the advantages of the Nokia Lumia 920.
And I can even add some, if I may.

Adding to point 7, I would like to fill in some of the etc. with Nokia City Lens and Nokia Transport.

On a sidenote: Nokia is really making some very serious contributions to the Windows Phone 8 platform, which can’t be said (at all) from HTC (or Samsung, for that matter). All Windows Phone 8 devices will be powered by Nokia Maps ánd will get Nokia Drive even, if the other producers choose to include it. On top of that, Nokia Drive will be much better than it was already, including route planning options to avoid toll roads, ferries, etc. I suggest you read all about that in this very interesting post at Nokia Conversations. Remember: Nokia Drive is free and even works offline.

But there is more:

8) The Nokia Lumia 920 gets you a supersensitive touchscreen, so you’ll be able to use it with your gloves on. With winter coming up, that is no small advantage in my opinion. But it’s so new and maybe even unexpected, it’s easily overlooked.

posted on 06 Nov 2012, 03:29

87. gothicheart (Posts: 82; Member since: 17 Oct 2012)


9) Nokia comes with a line of accessories that might make you drewl. Not only the wireless charging pillow by Fat Boy, but also color matching and really gorgeous looking BlueTooth headsets by Monster for instance.

And there is the high-quality JBL speaker where you can stream your music (with NFC on you will connect automatically) and charge your Lumia wireless at the same time. That is really adding value to the smartphone experience in my opinion, although of course it will need a substantial investment from you part.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 05:51 18

4. wp8forever (unregistered)


HTC should analyze why is heavier lol maybe cuz it has a better camera, better and faster screen, bigger battery,wireless charging and better build quality lol that's why HTC but don't get me wrong HTC 8x is a great phone I'm just explain why nokia 920 is heavier and seems to you that's a problem and is so so so heavy I been going to the gym to be able to pick it up cuz no matter what even if God come to earth imvgetter getting the lumia 920 lol.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 05:55 5

6. KParks23 (Posts: 445; Member since: 13 Oct 2010)


Glad were on the same page 1up u posted right before me lol... im a android user and prolly wont get a WP anytime soon but that 920 is awesome and im very impressed should sell and do very well as long as people push there family and friends to it!

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:06 4

12. maverick786us (Posts: 117; Member since: 20 Apr 2012)


HTC is a cheap plastic compared to solid polycarbonate shell of Lumia 920 having cermaic buttons

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:15 4

14. No_Nonsense (Posts: 826; Member since: 17 Aug 2012)


The 8x is also made of polycarbonate.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:41 5

29. Kronic (banned) (Posts: 321; Member since: 11 Sep 2012)


Not only is Nokia lumia 920 made of polycarbonate it also has an impossible to scratch back and is very rugged.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 09:12 2

51. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


It isn't "impossible to scratch", just that, in the event it is scratched, because it's the same color throughout the body, scratches aren't as visible. The WP8X and OneX share this feature.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 09:23

53. dexter_jdr (Posts: 1090; Member since: 28 Jun 2012)


ceramic buttons.. also called zirconium...

yes.that awesome word. ZIRCONIUM.
along with CARL ZEISS.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:23 3

15. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Lol

They're both solid polycarbonate unbodies

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:30 5

17. eisenbricher (Posts: 970; Member since: 09 Aug 2012)


lol not unbodies, the Unibodies xD

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:10 2

26. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Lol, did I just invented a new word?

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:28 4

16. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Facepalm

Nokia fans you are worse than iPhone fans.
Not a single sane and neutral argument above.

Nokia is heavier mostly because of its camera stabilization mechanism..which is useful only while taking photos.

55 grams less are useful EVERY TIME YOU USE THE PHONE

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:45 4

30. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


If both were totally free, would you rather have a Rolls-Royce or a Cruze? Presuming you selected the Rolls-Royce, you're getting a significantly heavier product, but with better quality, more goodies that won't make it to other products of the same type for years, and designed to last for a very long time, possibly through multiple owners, not just until the warranty runs out. Similar concept with the Nokia. Besides, the Nokia isn't even that heavy. It isn't until you hold a lighter phone that you notice a difference. Look at any of the test videos: notice not one of them indicates a complaint about the weight.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 08:17 1

42. wassup (Posts: 565; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)


you don't have to carry the rolls around SMH. Stop using dumb analogies.
I love the 920, but weight is an important factor. The camera is not a good enough reason for me to switch eco-systems, so I'll stay with my 'less premium' Note II (even though it's made of entirely the same materials as the Lumia, and it still is lighter, even though it has a monster screen, S-pen and all.
I couldn't care less about the camera.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 09:20 5

52. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


Ok, how about this then. If both were free, would you rather carry around a Canon Ti3 DSLR with decent semi-all-purpose lens, or a cheapo disposable digital camera you could pick up at a drugstore? Let's say you're always using a backpack or shoulderbag, so size has less bearing. A Playstation Vita or an ipod touch? A Zippo or a Bic? Your GN2 is a good phone and I understand it has similar weight, but there are some that would not find the GN2 to fit their lifestyles, if only because it can't fit in many pockets, or if it does, it inhibits movement. I'd rather have a phone that doesn't look gigantic while using it as a phone (or, in the case of other phones, is so dinky it doesn't feel right when used), takes great photos at a moment's notice, and doesn't cause my arm to get tired holding it up for extended periods of time.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 11:17 1

65. wassup (Posts: 565; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)


again, wrong analogy, the note 2's camera isn't a cheapo disposable camera, it's the quality of a decent point and shoot, the lumia is the quality of and above decent point and shoot, which might have better quality, but is heavier.
Arm getting tired? the lumia is heavier duh.
I agree that the note II isn't for everyone, but then again, neither is the Lumia.
good argument, but you're trying to over importantize (is that a word? I couldn't find anything else that would fit) the camera aspect. a good camera isn't enough. You need a decent eco-system as well.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 08:42 1

47. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Look you are the only Nokia fan here trying to formulate a decent argument and i appreciate that, but you are still very bad at it.
Nokia isn't a freaking RR of the phone world!
That's one ridiculous fanboy blown myth.

I've tried many nokias and i tell you the most plasticky and cheaply built phone i had was a Nokia.
There is nothing special about Nokia build really..it's just a superficial myth.

Here's an example:

http://gadgetstress.com/2010/12/nokia-n8-stress-test/

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 09:35 2

56. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


It depends on the phone. Not too long ago the only Nokias that were easily available in the US were the ones you'd find in plastic boxes in the prepaid section for like $10, with a tiny screen, cheap plastic, and not much else: good for folks on a very tight budget, but not for someone like you or myself (except as a backup perhaps). Some of them have better or worse build quality than others, even among those in my own collection: My 5230 Nuron definitely had a cheaper feel to it, having more flexible plastics in its construction, but it also had the back cover fully removeable, much like my HTC Sensation, which had the same feeling of a slight flex across the chassis, but felt nicer due to the metal back (but also more unpleasant due to the cold metal and the metal-on-metal feel of it against my wedding ring); however, the Nuron was not an expensive phone, and it is still in like-new condition, so the plastics, while feeling cheaper, have held up well. My 6133, the favorite phone I've yet owned (very fun to use, and good memories with it) had a large chrome trim piece on the inside keypad, and it was obviously flimsy out of the box, but it never came off nor broke, so it was never an issue, just a quibble. That said, my Lumia 900, the most satisfying phone I"ve yet owned, feels more solid and unyielding than any phone I've owned and any other handheld device I've encountered, including my 3590, which was a candybar phone with a large keypad, small monochromatic screen, and interchangeable covers. That said, my C7 Astound and 701 also feel very robust, but due to their construction, I could tell that some parts would have some slight flex to them, most notably the trim piece at the bottom near the microphone. However they've survived drops from a fair height as well as tumbles down the stairs, and suffered only superficial damage. The same couldn't be said for my sister's ipod touch, which after the first bounce had a cracked screen, and by the time it reached the bottom of the steps was in several pieces. So there are obvious variances within the lineup. No carrier is perfect. The GN2 is made by the same company that made the Strive and the original Flight, both of which felt very flimsy and cheap, and had numerous issues with the sliding keyboard, their biggest feature. By that same token though, it's the same compay that made the Rugby Smart, one of the more durable (and water-resistant) smartphones phones available today with military-grade resistance. However it is also very bulky and heavy, and has a smaller screen and marginally adequate camera than what I would want. To each their own.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 11:37 1

66. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


..and?
Does any of this make Nokia the RR compared to HTC?!?
Ridiculous.

All you said can subjectively be applied to many other brands..my friend has a two year old plastic sgs 1 and it still looks like new. I had 7 Sony Ericsson phones dating all the way back to 2005, and THEY ARE ALL STILL IN USE.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 15:45

77. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


I didn't say anything different. My initial inquiry was whether you'd rather have an RR or a Cruze, and in comparison to many other phones, the Lumia is a RR. That said, a Vertu could be a Maybach: fancified version of a lesser product but grossly overpriced because of it.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 16:28

79. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


Would the analogy worked better if I said Malibu vs Cruze, or Avalon vs Camry, or Fusion vs Focus (or Focus vs Fiesta)?

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 05:51 4

5. KParks23 (Posts: 445; Member since: 13 Oct 2010)


WTH is this article talking about i just checkedhttp://www.windowsphone.com/en-us and there is lumia ads everywhere the lumia is the best WP8 device u can get in my eyes the nokia maps and city lins are great and it has a way better camera.. but HTC has a good phone in the 8X but i dont think its up to the 920 standards!

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 05:56 5

7. jed27 (Posts: 65; Member since: 09 Jun 2012)


Oh, HTC. You know very well why the 920 is heavy. You should practice the art of trashtalk.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:05

11. wendygarett (unregistered)


Tell that to the iPhone 5!!! LOLOL :D

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:37 4

18. gothicheart (Posts: 82; Member since: 17 Oct 2012)


wow, htc is so desperate on this. When they can't find anything else on any aspect of the spec sheet, they try to concentrate and compare on the weight, haha. htc has just admitted that it is a lightweight contender desperately trying to enter the world of the heavyweight. Yes htc, you just made your point, for 20 pennies more, you could actually get nokia pureview technology, and lifetime-free navigation on ovi maps.

And the only reason they are the one featured on the ms website, is because they could use a little exposure...the 920 doesn't need one, the specs can speak for itself...

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:48 1

21. FranksGT (Posts: 167; Member since: 29 Aug 2012)


The navigation is a joke!
HTC is desperate look at their sales last few quarters. TO be honest their new windows line up is good and everyone knows it! Nokia fans are just mad because they have some serious competition. Who wants a phone that cost more, more ugly bezel, more weight, and just plain Bulky. HTC is sleek, slim and feels great to hold! Those are KEY in every day use.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:09 3

25. gothicheart (Posts: 82; Member since: 17 Oct 2012)


their sales last few quarter? let's not look further, just check on this site, phonearena, put htc on the search tab, and you would come with these, for you bro, htc's sales figures for the last few quarters, enjoy...

http://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-posts-grim-Q3-2012-results-expects-an-even-worse-Q4_id35963
http://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-net-profit-drops-again-in-Q3-2012_id35287
http://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-net-profit-drops-again-in-Q3-2012_id35287
http://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-sees-third-quarter-revenue-down-as-much-as-23_id32979
http://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-moving-out-of-South-Korea-due-to-poor-smartphone-sales_id32813

if sleek, slim, and feels great to hold are the only key features for you, why not just get a vibrator, haha.
And if more weight is really a issue for you, as comparing for a more sturdy and solid feel of the 920, go to the gym, it'll actually help...

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:49 1

33. wassup (Posts: 565; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)


they still made more than nokia..
seriously, you Nokia fans are getting more annoying than iSh££p. The 8X is just as good as the Lumia, and please stop saying 'go to the gym', you're trying to justify Nokia's weight problems, that's like saying go to your gym if your girlfriend is overweight just so you can lift her up. She needs to go to the gym, not you

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:54

35. JamesHunt (Posts: 37; Member since: 01 Oct 2012)


Sorry ? But isnt HTC producing Android phones? For the past every quarters , Nokia sold more "dead" symbian and "Newer and least popular" Wp7 phones.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 09:46 1

58. -box- (Posts: 3714; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


The 8X is as good as the 820, yes, and probably beats it in the camera department. The 920 is in a class by itself, so there's nothing else to compare to it. If the 8X had wireless charging and the camera capabilities of the Luma 920 it'd probably weigh around the same, if not more.

As for sales, Nokia continues to sell 1 million phones per day (granted, not smartphones) per recent sales reports. Only Samsung is in that same league (for now; likely that ZTE and/or Huawei will get up to that point, or at least bridge the gap)

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 12:58

76. b1acktiger (Posts: 203; Member since: 19 May 2012)


Nokia is not even in the Top 5 smartphone vendors and they got heavy cheques from Microsoft to promote their products and even after throwing money, they didn't survived. While HTC with its limited distribution networks (Compared to Nokia) still manged to ship these much phones.

HTC just fired what nokia ppl has started, they begged for it. Even the OEM's is not expecting expecting WP8 going to sell like hot cakes, Not sure that Nokia can hold that much....

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 06:45 4

20. darkvadervip (Posts: 289; Member since: 08 Dec 2010)


I like the weight. If it comes out my pocket or phone holder I can notice it. Lost my sg3 twice so I'm going to a new brand and quality

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:00 8

23. geniusjatt (Posts: 16; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)


these phonearena guys seems like anti nokia

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 07:50 3

34. JamesHunt (Posts: 37; Member since: 01 Oct 2012)


Nokia doesnt need microsoft's attention. As we have seen in recent past ,Lumias will again be the saving grace for Windows.If Nokia was not involved in WP, who knows microsoft would have been out of the game. HTC is not able to capitalise on the popularity of android, and wp territory is owned by nokia now. So HTC should not trsh talk about nokia. As one of the phonearena reader mentioned in earlier post, 'muscle is denser than fat'. thing which has substance will have weight.

posted on 31 Oct 2012, 08:50 2

48. aravinddr (Posts: 12; Member since: 27 Oct 2011)


Nokia Lumina 920 weights same as the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 due to its rugged poly-carbonate plastic construction....

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