HTC net profit drops again in Q3 2012
0. phoneArena 08 Oct 2012, 03:53 posted on
HTC keeps on sliding on the downward slope with net profits falling down 79% as its smartphones lose to rivals like iPhone and Samsung’s Galaxy S series…
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1. g2a5b0e (Posts: 3428; Member since: 08 Jun 2012)
HTC loses even more money. There's a surprise. My suggestion: Stop making all your flagships exclusive to certain carriers. There's a reason why Samsung is raking in all the cash right now. HTC makes great phones, but people will never know if they aren't available to them.
20. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
HTC isn't losing money yet, actually they are still piling it up just that their profits keep decreasing.
If the trend continues then they could indeed start losing money but their cash reserves are left untouched until then.
28. g2a5b0e (Posts: 3428; Member since: 08 Jun 2012)
I know they aren't technically "losing money". I just meant that if you're not making the most you can, then it can feel that way & HTC can & should be making a hellluva lot more.
30. neutralguy (Posts: 1152; Member since: 30 Apr 2012)
It's hard to make bigger money if you focused on releasing high end, mid-range and lower mid-range products. Especially when the competition is tight and controlled by other companies. They should really need to re-consider entry level for emerging markets. That's how samsung made it anyways.
2. enemy_dil (Posts: 7; Member since: 07 Oct 2012)
hope one X+ and 8 X and S same them
HTC is one of the best around.
3. shandesilva (Posts: 79; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
htc make some great hardware. arguably better than samsung. but personally what i dont like are (surely most other consumers as well) the sense overlay, almost the same design without much change and poor battery life.
8. darkskoliro (Posts: 1060; Member since: 07 May 2012)
you obviously dont know much about whats going on.
1) HTC dont make the hardware, they use NVIDIA's Tegra 3
2) I guess thats personal opinion but sense is the best out right now.
3) Their design is actually the best out there, including build quality.
4) and their battery life has been vastly improved though software, and now hardware (OneX+ got 2100mah)
But nevertheless they are still losing profit. All the best to them
35. mozes316 (Posts: 142; Member since: 30 Sep 2011)
Just out of curiosity, what makes Sense better than Touch Wiz or any other UI overlay. I've used just about all of them and I like Sense but I can't say that it's the best.
45. lsutigers (Posts: 813; Member since: 08 Mar 2009)
It's a matter of personal opinion, but generally speaking, most people prefer Sense over any other Android UI overlay, except vanilla (no UI overlay). Samsung's Touch Wiz and Moto's Blur (until they revamped it) are considered by many to be the least favorite. Many people say Touch Wiz is cartoony, too colorful and patchwork, while Sense is more polished / refined with a more professional look.
Again, it is all personal preference.
22. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
I'm enjoying my new international S3 and i can see a great level of devotion and attention in the software package - something that One X lacked upon release.
Things could change with the X+ though
5. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
Expected, good products with poor management.
6. SlimSoulja86 (Posts: 650; Member since: 03 Nov 2011)
I thought Sense was the best with HTC's good built quality with "some great hardware, arguably better than Samsung.", why arent people buying HTC devices instead of cheap plastic Samsung with less better hardware? Well I guess it's all about innovation hay
7. bayhuy (Posts: 320; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)
More advertising, HTC! Flo Rida blowing the whistle with Lumia, James Bond with Sony, London Olympics with S3, 2/3 of the ads I see on TV are S3, without being the best device...
9. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
It's helpless for HTC and any other company except Samsung. This only proves the theory that sales on this magnitude have nothing to do with devices, technologies, product packaging, logistics or marketing, but with cultural signification.
When certain brand is positively signified on mass scale, like Apple initially and now Samsung, it is based on sign itself, the "knowness" of a brand as a cultural sign. Samsung is a cultural sign that is associated with growing hatred towards Apple, and that's why it's succesful. HTC is not. So it cannot have this kind of sales.
Because there is only place for two opposite ideologies. HTC is failing, and so it will Nokia and Windows, unless they take down one of previous two opposite sides in cultural significance. There can be only two of them.
Of course, most people will argue that the reason for fall is something in category of brand, marketing, product, device, pricing, availability etc., but the true reason will always remain hidden unless they decide to see the problem from cultural perspective.
10. mobileharan (Posts: 18; Member since: 31 Oct 2011)
Advertisements and Marketing are very important ..
For example in my country India each and every individual knows the Galaxy S3 at least the Galaxy line .. But still many of them don't know what is One X .. And even few dont the company HTC itself ..
11. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
Those are not very important.
In my country iPhone was never marketed. Never. Everybody knows they should have it.
Now, the same is with Galaxy SIII. Marketing doesn't matter, only viral cultural information that flows through mass media, mostly internet, that gets spread by word of mouth. Something that's hard to engineer to any marketing expert.
15. mobileharan (Posts: 18; Member since: 31 Oct 2011)
True ... I think the terms Iphone and Galaxy has become passion .. That's why they don't need much marketing ...Those passionate ones think iphones and for andriod Samsung galaxy phones are best no matter what other phone gives ... And they spread good messages about these phones and the phones becomes viral ..
The other companies should try to get some passionate fans behind them ..
29. ph00ny (Posts: 751; Member since: 26 May 2011)
Brand recognition in overall sense is very important.
That's why Apple iPhone and Samsung Galaxy lineups are so popular
On the other hand, HTC One line just started. Let's hope that this becomes a three horse race
46. lsutigers (Posts: 813; Member since: 08 Mar 2009)
HTC, AT&T and Sprint have all done quite a bit of marketing of their flagship HTC products like the One X and EVO 4G LTE. I think alot has to do with exclusives as mentioned before, while the One X may have done well on AT&T, and the EVO LTE on Sprint, you cant support an entire company with 2 phones when you limit yourself to only 2 carriers. Verizon only has the Droid Incredible and T-Mobile has the One S, which are midrange devices, unlike the EVO and One X. Samsung's formula has worked, and for a reason, they offer their flagship devices on EVERY carrier and let the carriers have exclusives with midrange and entry level devices. The problem is that Samsung has now reached the level of success where they can tell the carriers what they will and wont do, HTC is not there yet, therefore, the carriers can still pressure them into making flagships exclusive.
13. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)
For Apple and Samsung, their flagship phones are easy to understand to the regular consumer - the iPhone and Galaxy S series.
HTC has had the Incredible, Thunderbolt, EVO, Rezound, One, Sensation (and much more I'm sure) as their flagship phone at one point or another, on different carriers. With so many "flagship" phones and variations, knowing about them and which carriers they're offered by, should be difficult even if you were to visit PhoneArena everyday.
Not having a clear, common, universally recognizable flagship phone across all carriers, is killing their brand recognition. Personally, I think they churn out too many half-baked "flagships."
14. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
That's a good point but doesn't hold in this case.
Having myriads of models that confuses potential buyers is certainly a bad strategy that is for some reason always used by most manufacturers except Apple (think of the Sony and at least 15 Xperia phones differentiated with alphabetic letters in last 6 months - no wonder they are losing money too!)
However, Samung also has this kind of production. They actually have dozens of Galaxy branded phones among all others, and Galaxy S series is reincarnated numeorous times (Galaxy S+, Galaxy S Advance, Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy S Duo...). However, the sales are strong only for galaxy SII and SIII, because those are culturally recognized products, not because they are the only flagships.
18. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)
> However, the sales are strong only for galaxy SII and SIII, because those are culturally recognized products
I don't understand why my point doesn't hold - "culturally recognized products" is exactly what I meant by flagship phones that are easy to understand to the regular consumer. Admittedly, I don't think Samsung did a good job of this until the SII and SIII. However, it is rather clear by now that Samsung has two pillars in their S series and Note series (for mobile phones).
All you have to do is ask yourself this - Which phone is _____ 's best phone?
Here are my answers (and I visit PA everyday):
Apple: iPhone 5
Samsung: SIII, Note II
Motorola: one of the RAZRs (MAXX, with HD and M coming soon?)
HTC: ...which carrier? I've heard of the One X+ from the One series, but didn't the Incredible 4G come out recently?
Nokia: one of the Lumia's (I don't follow Nokia news and their model numbers very well)
19. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
Culturally recognized product is not neccessarily a flagship products in terms of wanting the best in hierarchy. It's just a product that has become cultural sign. For instance, Sony's Xperia S as a flagship didn't become cultural sign - it needs more than just be flagship device.
Cultural signification constitutes itself in society that is identifying with subculture. There are two main subcultures now: Apple and Android/Samsung. The third one, Windows Phone is rising, but it's not found its true oppositional place yet.
The symbol of Android subculture is Galaxy S series, most notably SII and now SIII. Note is also becoming this kind of symbol. But it doesn't have to do much with the fact those are flagship by stratification established by manufacturer itself, although it is more probable that precisely flagship will be signifed, but only because the current language of signifying is based on technical specification in quantitative sense.
I will make my point again with example in my country: HTC has only One X in my country. It's still on a weak sales. On the other side, Galaxy SIII is selling like hot cakes. Not One X nor GSIII were substantially marketized, and for what they were, there was no difference between marketing of the two!
26. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)
Reading your other comments, what caught my attention was that you said marketing is insignificant.
"iSheep", "dude, you're a barista," "the next big thing is already here," etc - this is all Samsung marketing, setting itself up to be the anti-Apple. The whole Apple vs. Samsung thing certainly did come from Samsung marketing. A lack of marketing in your country doesn't mean cultural significance came from nowhere at all.
Anyways, my point was more about how brands need an identity, and not really whether they are culturally significant. Apple (iPhone), Samsung (S, Note), Motorola (RAZR on Verizon), Nokia (Lumia) has one. HTC doesn't.
32. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
The lines you quoted is not Samsung's marketing. Samsung has just took over the already growing cultural trend. Concept of iSomething and Apple customers' ignorance was developed cultorologicaly as a strong sign, and Samsung merely used it for later marketing, that marketing which was already put in the final stage of Samsung's success.
Samsung is identified as an opposition to long before Samsung used it as their marketing value. They were associated with opposition to iPhone ever since F700, with culmination in galaxy S. They've introduced "iSomething" marketing campaign only with Galaxy SII, but to the full extent their signification found fertile gorund only during last year, more thankfully to the perceived failure of iPhone 5 than to the Galaxy SIII superiority alone.
BTW Nokia is doing very bad with it's flagships - and they have two of them!
Motorola is seeing losses, just like Sony. Basically all manufacturers are losing their gorund except Samsung and LG. I still think this has nothing to do with marketing by itself.
Of course, you need marketing, but only as a fundamental material, and the true success is dependent only upon cultural dynamics.
For instance, some less known and badly designed products of Samsung in terms of market (niche producst) like Galaxy Note (that aims at eccentric population) have gained greater success than Nokia with it's ultra-expensive and globally systematic marketing campaign with Lumias.
Also, Galaxy SIII gained more success based on its sole fact that it is the main iPhone rival for this year than Samsung's previous products under the most expensive mobile marketing campaign in history, the London 2012 Olympics, which were based on Galaxy Note, that even gained greater success by the same reasons, and not reasons of marketing.
HTC One series is perfectly designed in terms of aimed markets. It could be easily seen that there were briliant experts working on a campaign. But there are no sales despite the fact that One X was considered flagship second only to Galaxy SIII but with a few months of advantagre, and it didn't even make profits during those months when One X was practically the best Android out there.
And this is only a continuation of previous HTC's steep fall on market, that nobody truly understands. Why? Because everyone thinks it's all about marketing. But it's not.
41. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)
I actually do like your comment and agree that the anti-Apple sentiment and rivalry existed to some degree before the SII. However, I do not believe that most general consumers would've been able to identify Samsung as either of those before the SII. The SII was a turning point in which Samsung strongly established their position as a rival (Apple vs. Samsung as opposed to iPhone vs Android), to the general people.
Samsung certainly seized the opportunity by taking advantage of the "cultural significance" you are talking about. However, this was largely driven through marketing (relentlessly attacking Apple), creating solid products (SII/SIII), and establishing their identity as "the rival" to Apple. Without the marketing and solid product, Samsung would have never experienced the ascension it experienced with the SII/SIII.
Also, I do agree that the One series was nicely designed. I believe that design is actually one of HTC's stronger suits, I personally thought it was a step in the right direction. However,
42. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)
(continuing from post above - couldn't edit in time)
However, I didn't really think the One X was that appealing in the US when it came out. I believe there were compatibility issues between quad-core processor and LTE, so it ended up with a dual-core processor here. And when you took away the advantage of processing power, the One did not seem like much improvement over the SII.
48. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
I never said marketing is unecessary. It is the medium of communication between company and customers. It is the way of informing customers of their products in every way possible, not just advertising. Marketing basically means the setting-up of product to the market.
But market is a very complex phenomenon. Moreover, it's based on social dynamics that has its own way. Marketing tries to control the way of this dynamics from two opposite angles: first is the adapting to existing market, and the second is adapting the market to themselves. Then it is called market engineering.
However, the two methods, often being simultaneous, never or extremely rarely meet at the crossroads.
Most of the time there is a huge "gap" in nature of the market that cannot be controlled by companies.
So the companies' marketing can count on their marketing only to the certain extent.
This market segment on which we are talking about, the mobile IT field, is especially tricky. Because modern mobile technological paradigm is a matter of intensive cultural production of symbols and signs upon which our lifestyles talk about our cultural identification (unlike market of hygienic products, for instance), it has a huge area of dynamics that depends on viral distribution of the information. Even more, the "offical" information from manufacturers is not considered true at all. Fanbases are closely looking at the balance of power and its resonance in "independent" mass media - blogs, portals, reviews and their interactive base of participants.
So all this marketing is always here and needed, but it only counts for a media PRESENCE, *but does not ignite the symbolic thrust* that is now the only obligatory effect in order to make substantial profits.
In mobile segment, those who do not make extremely high profits are considered losers, because automatically for that fact they are losing profits. And forces needed for this are not the forces of traditional marketing but of going with the cultural flow, like Samsung does, for instance. But Samsung is too dependent on this - on something that they cannot fully control.
37. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
Well said and wisely, +1 Post19,32.
21. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)
To add on to my comment with my own experience with HTC, I owned and absolutely loved my Droid Incredible, released 4/29/2010. One year later (April 2011?), they came up with the Droid Incredible 2 (or Droid Incredible S) which was very underwhelming. After one whole year, all they did was slap on a bigger screen - it even kept the same 480x800 resolution! The processor speed also stayed at 1 GHz single-core, at a time when people were expecting dual-core phones to come out.
If you thought Apple's move from 4->4S->5 was bad... this example with HTC should be much worse. It's really a shame because I loved HTC and the Incredible, until I saw what kind of phones they subsequently came up with over time.
34. ngo2dd (Posts: 896; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
The processer on the inc 2 was an S2 which is faster then the inc 1. They add more ram and more Rom as well. The screen size was the same and it was VZW world phone so it has a sim card. The change is not that great but a lot of it was under the hood.
43. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)
I didn't know some of the updates, so thanks for the comment. Unfortunately, I still think that the move from Inc 1->2 was underwhelming though. Here is the comparison for anyone interested:
16. bloodline (Posts: 704; Member since: 01 Dec 2011)
sorry but HTC's marketing is terrible. The only advert for the HTC one x for the UK was some dude jumping out of a plane trying to take a picture...... whos going to do that.
Then you watch an advert for the iphone and its shows all the amazing features it can do... its obvious what the consumer will pick.
Show the selling points of the product, not some crap 5 sec story with no real relevance to the phone
17. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
if the one x failed, how would the x+ improve? It looks just like the one x!. And like Nokia, being exclusive to ATT or any one carrier will not yield profits in this challenging ecosystem. No one is gonna switch carriers!!!! Come on be serious. The GS3 and iPhone 5 is enough for most to stick to their carrier. HTC/Nokia are the dumbest!
23. ryq24 (Posts: 601; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
maybe they should re think about including micro sd card in their phones. and fire their marketing team!
24. Kronic (banned) (Posts: 321; Member since: 11 Sep 2012)
Why htc? Ur phones are amazing so why are you doing so bad.
27. bubbadoes (Posts: 567; Member since: 03 May 2012)
To date HTC hasn't released any flagship device on Verizon. Where did the 1 x series of phones go. T mobile Att and Sprint.. The Rezound Thunderbolt and a series of Incredibles were all so so phones to say the least. Losing money. i'm not surprised!!! They will lose even more
33. mnodaddy (Posts: 1; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)
It's all about marketing,they are old minded marketing team, no rumors continues feed and in the campaign they not focusing in killer features.
The solutions a
1- keep specialist website busy with HTC rumors and news and tests and accessory all the year do not stop.
2- be generous in what in the box ( headset,covers,cases ... etc)
3- flagship phone must come with beats headset.
4- preinstalled one or two HTC special breakthrough applications.
5- make it obvious that any phone come with letter X is a flagship and stuck with it let the people get familiar.
I owned too much brands nothing like HTC.
I wondering If any HTC officials read what we wrote in her.
36. ahhxd717 (Posts: 332; Member since: 08 Dec 2011)
They really need to stop with the carrier exclusives for their flagship devices. Every major US carrier has the SGSIII, and the iPhone is on most of these carriers, but the One X is only on AT&T. I know the US doesn't make up all marketshare, obviously, but it's only hurting their sales. I love HTC phones and Sense and even miss it sometimes since I got a GNex. My friend has a One X and it's been flawless for her. I just hope the best for HTC.
40. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
In my country all three major carriers have One X for the same price as, for instance very succesful Galaxy Nexus, and they still have weak sales, even before Galaxy SIII.
38. cncrim (Posts: 639; Member since: 15 Aug 2011)
Plain simple HTC...... i found your phone is ugly keep the outside design simple and look good then people will buy your stuff. Your software is there but your design exterior suck, some will disagree but it is true, it is prove in sale number.
39. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
HTC One series is actually extremely exemplary, especially flagship One X. It's the pinnacle of design that makes Samsung's phones look amateurish.
So that's definitely not the reason for weak sales. Actually, design is almost never the main reason. It's an alibi, for sure, but not reason.
44. murati (Posts: 21; Member since: 29 Apr 2012)
In my opinin HTC makes one of the best phones on the market. They are sexy, solid, great design and all. Only problem for them is marketing. They made a critical mistake announcing ONE seria on 28.February and than we have to wait for three months or more for phones to come on market. In my country phone came on 28. May. This is simply stupid. In three or four months there is lot's of new phones and people kind of forget about HTC. I had 6 of them so far and I love them all. All my family use HTC and we basicly have no problem what so ever. All in all, HTC still have profit and is one of the three companies that have it (apple,samsung). So i wish HTC all the best and I will never buy other phone than HTC, cant wait to get hands on X+ :)