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Federal Judge rules against Apple as HTC's patents will stand

0. phoneArena 08 Sep 2012, 13:51 posted on

Apple asked a Federal Judge to rule that patents being used by HTC in a patent suit against the Cupertino tech giant were invalid because HTC purchased them from a third party to use agressively; the judge ruled in favor of Taiwan based HTC...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 14:48 11

22. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)

If Apple gets hit with an import ban, their stock price will take a hit. The longer the ban stays in place, the further the stock drops. It is all about turning toys into cash. An import ban stops that process while the cash burn from operations continues.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 18:06

88. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

Are stock prices modified over the weekends? Thought only trades during business days

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 18:35 2

99. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)

There is the 'after-hours' market:http://www.nasdaq.com/quotes/after-hours.aspx

posted on 09 Sep 2012, 00:41

145. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

Thanks for the link. I was previously aware of AAT but didn't know the scope of its influence.
How much impact does AAT have? Would we be more likely to see a drop come Monday morning?

posted on 09 Sep 2012, 01:19 1

147. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)

It depends. If the ban were to be announced after closing (5 pm Pacific time) on a Friday and Apple's iPhone shipments were piling up at Customs over the weekend, there would be a fall in the after-hours market. Trading in Apple shares would quite likely open lower than the Friday close due to the after-hours activity being closed out. If the iPhones continued to pile up at Customs, the price would probably continue to drop through the day. Depending on what was said regarding Apple's response to the ban, the price might drop far enough to trigger circuit breakers (trading is suspended).

As I said at the start of my response - it depends.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 14:45 7

20. whysoserious (Posts: 318; Member since: 20 Jul 2012)

Hahaha! It seems that someone's gonna be screwed and stuck at 3g connectivity this time, and I wonder who's that gonna be. Like eveyone else say, pay back's a b**ch!

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 14:49 8

23. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)

So much win in this article I've lost track..... Between HTC's and Sammy's patents, Apple is looking down both barrels quite literally!

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 14:51 14

24. Droiddoes (unregistered)

LMFAO!!!!!!! Here's my favorite part: "Apple asked the court to rule that the patents are invalid because HTC purchased them just to aggressively use them in court."

f*cking irony, how does it work? Hypocrisy too for that matter!

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 20:37

126. joey_sfb (Posts: 5747; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)

I think Apple is caught in its own Reality Distortion Field if they think the court is going to buy that. "Of course, HTC buy it to sue your ass just like you did and still going at it!"

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 14:54 6

26. dreeemer (Posts: 28; Member since: 04 Sep 2012)

Samsung &HTC should gang up, sure the sh-- outta Apple!
They would be forced 2 pull LTE & relaunch under a new name
Apple 4S Extreme Super Edition Extra XL

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 15:24 2

39. PapaSmurf (Posts: 10456; Member since: 14 May 2012)



posted on 08 Sep 2012, 14:56 8

27. Droiddoes (unregistered)

Where are all of the ifans to defend them and spew their nonsense? Could it be that they have no defense for this and decided just to do themselves a favor and stay away? LMAO.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 15:06 6

32. whysoserious (Posts: 318; Member since: 20 Jul 2012)

Cowered by their own beloved Apple's hypocrisy and bad karma.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 18:37 3

100. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)

Some are on vacation from PA.

posted on 09 Sep 2012, 00:38

144. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

Good point. Taco's been gone for a while, maybe he is back to kindergarten or banned, and some of the garble-names have been absent as well.

I don't particularly mind THEIR absence, as the more rational apple supported seem to have stuck around, which means we can have rational, thought-provoking adult conversations/debates.

How very refreshing.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 15:00 6

28. zackh121556 (Posts: 101; Member since: 01 Feb 2012)

If you always look to sue the hornets nest. you will get stung in multiple directions.....lets not forget Samsung already stated it would sue for the same thing :-)

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 15:12 6

33. Droiddoes (unregistered)

Yup! Apple is in for an epic gangbang from the combined might os Samsung, HTC, and Google!

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 15:18 5

35. thephoneguy92 (Posts: 191; Member since: 29 Dec 2011)

"Apple asked the court to rule that the patents are invalid because HTC purchased them just to aggressively use them in court."


posted on 08 Sep 2012, 15:31 3

40. darkkjedii (Posts: 21319; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

What amazes me as I read the various comments, is that u guys think that apple is going to crash and burn. U guys actually think the iPhone is gonna get banned here in the US... get real man! Apple is a rock solid company, stacked with cash, and rooted in americas financial fabric. Apples not going away anytime soon guys. Also this is not a pro apple comment, cuz I sincerely hope Samsung and htc's products don't get banned either but all these silly hopes that r encoded n your comments r jus that (silly hopes) apples crashing or an iPhone 5 ban would severely weaken the economy, and here in the states that's jus not gonna happen. It's almost comical to read the stuff u guys post about apple, and really want or think its gonna happen. What's gonna happen is apple is about to become the first trillion dollar company in US, and possibly world history. Apples products line love it or hate it is super strong, and isn't about to crash n burn in any way shape or form. The powers that b know how important brand name products r the the Economy due to brand loyalty. Brand loyalty is the number 1 driving force in our economy. Pepsi, Chevy, dodge, Samsung, Quaker, coke, cowboys, steelers, Yankees, lakers, redsox, and apple have it in droves. It's literally what makes the world economy go round, and u guys talk like its so easy to drive apple away... Why would u even want apple to go away? If apple went away google and android would suffer, and vice versa. Sorry guys but the silly comments and the lol's that accompany them is fantasy talk, apple is here to stay and getting stronger losing iPhone/iOS market share isn't an issue when u dominate in other areas. Apple doesn't go after market share, with them it's profit margin. Google is more about market share cuz of ads, and search plus free licensing of their software. They want in as many hands as possible. Apple not so much, they have a sales model, and it works quite well. They will get fined, and have to pony up and pay licensing fees to Htc, but banned I think not, and so does our national economy.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 15:50 7

46. jroc74 (Posts: 6005; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

I dont care what happens...as long as Apple's hypocrisy is shown....and they get a taste of their own medicine.

If one is an Apple, iPhone fan.....you cant deny this is truly hypocritical that they went out and bought a bunch of LTE patents to help in case Samsung sues em for LTE.....and then this.

I wish this judge could preside over every patent case....

But...at the same time....this might help them in case Samsung does sue em. You cant have it all Apple.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 15:54 3

47. darkkjedii (Posts: 21319; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

It's so hypocritical it isn't even funny man. I hate some of the stuff apple does it really sucks. However this is strictly about banning them in the US, which won't ever happen. They do need to b blasted tho and force their a$$e$ back to the lab to innovate like they were when they came up with the OG iPhone.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:13 3

51. JessJess (unregistered)

Please. Don't use the "i" word.

Where is your proof that Apple do not "innovate"? Is it based upon the rumour/leaks of the next iPhone looking like..... an iPhone? Is that it? Really?

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:31 3

55. darkkjedii (Posts: 21319; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

Dude I'm an apple guy first and for most and I love tech period. I'm pro apple, android, moto, windows all that. I also understand y iPhones have signature styling jus like porsche does. I jus want the suing to stop on all sides, and I'd like to see apple blow the doors off with something radical that's all.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:41 2

56. JessJess (unregistered)

That's fine.

I just hate it when people start throwing around the "innovation" argument.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:56 2

60. darkkjedii (Posts: 21319; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

My whole point in saying see apple innovate more is so they can shut people up, and show em what they're capable of.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:24 1

69. JessJess (unregistered)

Shut up who? Android users? You know they wont be satisfied or impressed no matter /what/ Apple do so its a non-issue.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:29 5

72. darkkjedii (Posts: 21319; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

That's true but some droiders r true techies, and respect apple. Some r jus idiots with big mouths, and active imaginations. Hence their stupid posts.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:49 5

84. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)

Several Apple fans are idiots with big mouths too bro. Call it both ways b/c it does go both ways.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 19:09 2

107. darkkjedii (Posts: 21319; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

Hey dude u r exactly rite. Some r worse than the stupid droiders... We'll call them stupid applers lol. Seriously though u r rite there's stupidity on both sides. I love both platforms though, big time love for ios's simplicity and androids techie feel and customizations. No wonder they're # 1 and 2.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:36 3

78. Berzerk000 (Posts: 4275; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)

Don't lump us all together like that Jess, it's rude. I'm actually looking forward to the new iPhone event, because I'm interested in what Apple will show off for us. Though I've seen the hardware isn't too inspiring, I hope they will show something amazing with the software.

Unlike a lot of people, I look at my other options across all platforms before buying my devices. WP, Android, and iOS alike. I looked at the iPhone 4S and Lumia 900 before buying my GS2 (though I hate Touchwiz and will replace it with something soon). And I'll look into the Lumia 920, Ativ S, new iPhone, and the next Nexus (done with overlays and lack of updates) before making a decision later this year.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:54 2

86. JessJess (unregistered)

Fair enough. I was just saying that if darkkjedii thinks anything Apple can do will help tame some of the hate around here I think he is going to be disappointed. At least PA is now marking things as spam more often.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 19:19 2

113. darkkjedii (Posts: 21319; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

I think ur rite Jess. There will always b those that will simply hate apple no matter what they do. If they go more android like they will b copy cats that lack innovation, if they stay the apple way they will b copy cats that lack innovation. This is y apple should stick to their formula, and google should stick to theirs. In the end who wins? We the consumers do, cuz not everybody wants to root and customize their phone all the time (android), and not every body want the walled garden and simplistic approach to an os (iOS). However lots of people love one or the other, and lots love both. That equals something for everybody.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:25 3

70. Berzerk000 (Posts: 4275; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)

I think we all know Apple is capable of great things, but they haven't exactly been showing it lately. I don't want to see Apple products being banned, they just need to be sat down. Right now, Apple thinks they can do pretty much anything, and that isn't good for any company. They know they can put out any product and will reach record breaking sales, so instinctively they are going to put less effort into products. Why put more work into it when you can get so many sales with very little work?

This isn't me showing contempt for Apple. If this were the situation with any other company; Samsung, HTC, Motorola, Microsoft, Google, etc., I would say the same thing, "they just need to be sat down." Because it just isn't good for any company to act like that.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:30 1

74. darkkjedii (Posts: 21319; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

True I can understand that bro

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:05 4

49. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)

Honestly, I don't know that many people truly want Apple products banned. I for one simply want Apple's hypocrisy to end. Stop all the stupid patent warfare, and let the best devices win. I just find it hard to like a company that seems to prefer to compete in the courtroom through litigation rather than by quality of tech and innovation.

That would be a huge win scenario for all consumers, no matter which OS you prefer.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 19:04 2

105. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)

same here, I have no problem with apple as a choice for consumers - but, apparently, a certain company has a problem with Android.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 19:08 1

106. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)

DJ, do not believe for a minute that APPLE does not care about marketshare - that line of thinking is naive. Also, brand loyalty is only as good, so long the product is good. I doubt a ban will ever happen because APPLE has the government in its back pockets.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 19:40 1

117. Aeires (unregistered)

Hate to break it to you, the US economy isn't based on Apple. In fact, it's barely impacted because they don't manufacture the equipment in the US.

I really don't get where people come up with the argument that Apple is above the law because they are a successful American company.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 21:43

131. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)

Apple has money and you do not think that use some of that money for influence in Washington?

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 22:08

136. Aeires (unregistered)

Of course they have, but this goes way beyond lobbying Congress. Legislation is on the books and Apple has to abide by it, no matter how much money they have.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:05 1

48. JessJess (unregistered)

That sucks for them. I am sure they will sort it out though.

I am kind of surprised HTC are "poking Apple with a stick" so to speak. They are in trouble at the moment, and it seems kinda dumb for them to incur the wrath of Apple.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:53 6

59. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)

Elephants are scared of ANTS ... guess who's the elephant ... it's not about being might or almighty ... it's about being correct or incorrect ... lol

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:15

65. JessJess (unregistered)

But that implies Apple are scared of HTC, which of course isn't the case.

I just think this could be bad for them in the long term (HTC). Apple have not bothered any other manufactures except Samsung thus far. Now HTC are painting a big red bullseye on themselves.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:20 4

66. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)

Have you not paid attention? It was Apple who had several HTC(Evo 4G on Sprint, for one) phones held up at customs just a couple months ago due to alleged patent infringements. HTC is simply giving them a taste of their own medicine.

So, this is not painting themselves with a bullseye, this is payback for the exact same thing. It helps to do your homework before posting Jess.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:27

71. JessJess (unregistered)

Oh. My sincere apologies for not spending my life following patent wars? I have not heard or seen much about said infringement so it cant have been in the news for long?

I was basing my comment on THIS article, and my knowledge on what had transpired thus far.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:31 3

75. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)

I don't necessarily follow them either except for the fact that I work in the industry, and like to keep informed. The patent was a design patent and was easily fixed so it was resolved rather quickly.

All I'm saying is know what you are saying is true before you say it. I realize it is symantics, but saying for sure that Apple hasn't bothered any other OEMs vs saying you don't think they have makes a world of difference.

I'm sure I'll get thumbed down for that, but proper communication is the basis for understanding when discussing any topic.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:36

79. JessJess (unregistered)

All of the articles I read had stated Apple has not gone after other OEMs so far, and I had not read anything contrary to that fact. But if I am mistaken then fair enough.

My original post was simply stating my concern that HTC seem to be in a bad position at the moment (it was just on PA the other day) and that this course of action might have a negative impact on them long term. With Apples recent actions against Samsung its not unreasonable to conclude that if HTC start to pose a threat to them they may start focusing some attention on them? If for no other reason than to get some leverage.

posted on 09 Sep 2012, 03:31 3

150. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)

Here is a concise timeline so far.


As you can see, when it comes to Android, Apple sued HTC first. HTC counter sued. Then in October of 2010, Motorola sued Apple, citing three years of Apple ignoring requests by Motorola to license the numerous patents that were necessary for the iPhone to even operate as a cell phone. Apple counter sued in the same month.

Then six months later Apple sued Samsung. Samsung, of course, counter sued. In the meantime Microsoft entered the fray as well as Oracle.

You also have Jobs's statement that he wanted to go thermonuclear on Android the minute he saw it. Apple has been out for blood for two and a half years. After HTC suffered delayed phone shipments and a ban on older models from the conclusion of the suit settled in last December, and the fact that Apple immediately sued again after the One phones were cleared by Customs, claiming that HTC still magically infringed on patents that Customs themselves agreed they weren't, you can't really blame HTC for this move.

posted on 09 Sep 2012, 09:03

154. JessJess (unregistered)

Thanks sniggly. To my knowledge I only knew of Samsung and Motorola, and the Motorola one I knew was instigated by them. I didn't think any HTC products had been banned.

You misunderstand though. My comment was not in support of /either/ I was commenting on how bad things are for HTC at the moment and was it really a great time for them to do this - especially after what happened with Samsung just recently?

I hope that this is not something that helps finish them off if it goes against them. Apple (as you pointed out) can be very bitter to people who they feel have 'wronged' them. HTC phones are one of the few brands I actually like other than Apple and Nokia.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:33 2

77. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)

Jumping into a comment section blindly usually doesn't end well, but then again, you are an Apple fan.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 17:38

80. JessJess (unregistered)

It wasn't blindly, my comment still stands even if HTC had been in Apples sights before. And is that all you had?

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 18:34 1

98. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)

That is all I need, you've proven it for me, your just a blind Apple fangirl, most likely a hipster, its fine if you want to defend Apple tooth and nail, but at the very least know some facts before you speak.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 19:47

121. JessJess (unregistered)

Defending apple tooth and nail? My comment was about HTC more than Apple.

And no, its really not. "Oh blind Apple fan" isn't all you need. But whatever you like.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 18:21 1

90. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

The ban of the OneX and Evo LTE were kind of a big deal, since they were the first phones designed for ICS and came out before the GS3. HTC lost a lot of sales because folks decided to wait for the GS3 instead since it wasn't long after

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 18:34

97. JessJess (unregistered)

I actually think I recall it now. I just hope this does not cause more hassles for HTC down the line.

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 23:00 2

138. willard12 (Posts: 1686; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)

Here you go Jess. I realize it can be difficult keeping track of all of Apple's lawsuits. I believe the alleged infringement from HTC was"scroll bounce," a feature Apple copied, then patented. You will also note from the article that apple went after Motorola as well. For those who had their HTC pre-orders delayed because Apple insisted on inspections of a feature that was removed, I hope you understand theirs and others frustration with Apple and why OEMS are starting to fight back against the "elephant."


posted on 09 Sep 2012, 08:57

153. JessJess (unregistered)

Thankyou willard12 :)

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:07 8

50. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)

iPhone 4ST (S for Steve T for Tim) will be what new iPhone without LTE will be.

That said, HTC/Samsung/all others who own LTE (or other) patents should get after this spoilt brat to take out all steam so that they get out of this habbit of suing every other competitor and get down to serious iNNOVATION.

I am not against Apple but i am very much against their attitude of suing everyt other competitor in market in order to Survive and Grow. That's pathetic and is what pushes me towards hating them ...

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:29 2

53. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

Lol, this could be so sweet..HTC and Samsung striking together against Apple could actually deal some damage here!

posted on 08 Sep 2012, 16:44

57. JessJess (unregistered)

It would be anti-competitive due to the fact it would be anti-competitive.

The courts aren't stupid. They would see through that instantly. Something like LTE is a corner stone of any handset manufacturer. Phones can work without "pinch to zoom" or "rounded corners" or whatever you want to joke about, but a standard for wireless communication?

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