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EFF: ‘Apple’s devices are like beautiful crystal prisons’

0. phoneArena 30 May 2012, 10:31 posted on

“Apple's recent products, especially their mobile iOS devices, are like beautiful crystal prisons, with a wide range of restrictions imposed by the OS, the hardware, and”…

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 30 May 2012, 13:35 1

70. ph00ny (Posts: 1405; Member since: 26 May 2011)

Part about investing into one ecosystem and not "wanting" to give up applies to android devices too.

As for the article, I would partially agree with EFF on the Crystal prison part. Despite what everyone says about android, it has its own quirks and restrictions due to manufacturers/carriers etc. Difference between iOS devices and Android devices in reference to the crystal prison is the fact that one has a door with a lock and one has a door with a latch

In terms of Malware issues in comparison to Internet, do you really want a censored web? Malware issue isn't bad at all as long as common sense is used (ie, user ratings, download number, user comments, etc). Some of the apps that are getting rejected or removed from the appstore aren't purely due to the safety of the users but rather it's not what Apple wants in order to maintain its revenue stream

Also having used both iOS devices and Android devices (every version since eclaire), i would say they're on par in terms of ease of use. In fact i find the lack of direct menu access within apps on iOS more cumbersome.

posted on 30 May 2012, 13:54 1

71. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)

Remix attacked Apple. You seem to be very one sided.

posted on 30 May 2012, 14:46 1

72. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4708; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)

The reason I may seem one sided is the things I don't agree with Google on mostly affect android users, like privacy issues and dropping support for devices less than a year old. The things I disagree with Apple on impact the entire mobile sphere. As I have said in past posts, if Apple from the start had went for licensing fees or a cash settlement, I wouldn't have a problem with them. If IP is infringed upon, they have every right to be compensated. But by effectively trying to limit the playing field through litigation, they are taking choices away from the consumer. Because this affects the mobile industry as a whole, it is much more far reaching. As far as Google's privacy issues, we have the ability to not share our info if we don't give consent, I just don't like that we have to be on the watch to keep our privacy. But Apple trying to block their competition is out of our hands. I have also said in the past if the situations were reversed, I wouldn't agree with Google trying to block Apple either, because I don't believe in taking away choices from the consumer. It's why I'm at odds with Verizon getting rid of things like NE2 discounts, 1 year contracts, etc. So the reason I harped on the Apple issue is because it affects more of the mobile industry.

So, any other insinuations, or am I just another "blind fanboy".

posted on 30 May 2012, 14:53

73. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)

Wow. So much more intelligence than taco50.

I get now what you're saying. People that just need a phone that does exactly what they need and no more get the iPhone. People that want more customization and the horsepower to support it get an Android. If you don't want the Terminator in your hand (or don't care enough to want it), then the iPhone is for you. If everyone could just understand this, it could put an end to the bickering.

There are a couple things that I disagree with you about as well. First, you don't really have to "work" to keep malware off of your Android. It's not that hard, tbh. Second, I honestly can't name any major application in the App Store that I need that Google Play Apps doesn't have or have an alternative to.

Bottom line, thanks for the most intelligent, well thought out iOS argument that I've ever come across.
Respect +1.

posted on 30 May 2012, 14:55 1

74. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)

What I mean is you complain about Apple users attacking others for using a different OS, but this website is actually dominated by android users attacking Apple on every article. Remix attacks Apple constantly and makes it personal. He's not here to debate.

posted on 30 May 2012, 14:59

75. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)

Nah, in the grand scheme of things I don't lie awake at night thinking about what Apple does or how Android does.

I'm here because it's fun.

posted on 30 May 2012, 15:00

77. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)

This is what Sniggly was JUST talking about.
Hey, there's something in your skull. It may be small, but at least try to use it. Don't just make stupid remarks and give mindless insults.
Well, it's too late now. You already have a big, red "DUMBASS" stamp on your forehead like gallitoking and nothing you say or do can change it at this point.

posted on 30 May 2012, 15:03 1

79. remixfa (Posts: 14597; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

such is true ph00ny. But there is much much less of a tie in with android than there is with iOS. Many of the paid iOS apps are availible for free on Android. Also just about every android device uses universal chargers and such. The only real custom pieces for "most" devices come from cases and screen protectors, but you have to change them if you upgrade to any other device, regardless of ecosystem.
So where apple sinks very deep hooks into for paid apps and custom equipment, Android doesn't sink nearly as deep.
Of course, the free part does work for android more than some may realize, since people dont want to have to "pay" for apps that they already have for free. Thats the main reason my wife refuses to try WP7, though I think it would suit her well. "why would I pay for angry birds and all the other apps i already have for free?"

posted on 30 May 2012, 15:19

82. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)

I love how when you cry about this imaginary army of Android fans persecuting Apple without cause you can only come up with Remix as an example, who you hate anyway.

posted on 30 May 2012, 15:29 3

84. good2great (Posts: 1042; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)

Taco does have a point tho Snig...

this has been a great read today and it seems as if the bigger voices for android and apple on here have come together to have mature conversation.

i do see a lot more android users in apple articles with negative comments than apple users in android articles...

i'm sure we all will be visiting here tomorrow so lets keep a look out to see if taco50 is making it up or if android users are attacking people in apple articles.

posted on 30 May 2012, 15:31 3

85. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4708; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)

That was meant for everyone. I don't agree with anyone ridiculing others because they don't choose what another does. Notice I said that both Jeff and remix made good points, but you seemed to lock in on what I agreed with remix on. In my last post I explained why I went on about that, but apparently that's not a good enough reason. Apparently you even skipped over that it didn't matter who was doing it, if they are taking away choice, I'm against them.

This allows me to bring up another issue I have with commenters on PA, it seems like no matter what you say, you've got someone painting you as one thing or another. And I'm talking about someone saying something as innocuous as "wish iOS allowed some more customization" or "I wish the overall quality of the app market was better". People like that are sharing an opinion, they aren't necessarily pro android or Apple. There's nothing wrong with some critiquing. But when all there is to a comment is phone A is perfect & can do no wrong, phone B is flawed & inferior, that is fanboyism. We really need to get past this "If you say something remotely negative about what I like, you must be with "them" and are against me".

Everything, be it phones, food, sports teams, or whatever, is flawed to some extent. Overlooking flaws in what I like and then turning around and saying what others like is complete garbage is wrong on both counts. This goes for anyone, android, Apple, Windows, RIM, etc. I hope that clarifies my position.

posted on 30 May 2012, 15:40 2

86. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)

My name is Sniggly Rucklefuss, and I approve of this message.

posted on 30 May 2012, 15:43 2

87. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

I have a solution (which apple would hate): make all phones universally compatible with any of the major OSes (computers too) without hacking. Buy the phone with the specs you want, pay for a copy of the OS, install it, and enjoy. Make phone components modular, like on a PC, so when new parts are available, one can install them as they want/afford. People who want ios on a 5" screen get it, people who want to use the same case on a phone can change OSes at will, and brand loyalty doesn't mean much besides hardware.

Idealistic and improbable, sure, but then valid criticisms of others' choices would diminish, in theory

posted on 30 May 2012, 15:51

89. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4708; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)

It's not improbable, that's the PC market. I built my last computer, selecting the case, fan, motherboard, cpu, gpu, ram, and made the computer I wanted. While my OS options were limited to Windows & Linux, that's basically what you're talking about. Granted, the size of a smartphone makes building your own near impossible, but it is similar.

posted on 30 May 2012, 16:34 1

93. Stuntman (Posts: 836; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)

I find that Apple's super controlled ecosystem limits its interoperability with non-Apple devices. I understand that by limiting Apple devices to work well only with other Apple devices, you have fewer issues. Interoperability opens up a lot of potential issues because of the great many permutations of device sets out there.

Apple's tightly controlled ecosystem minimises device compatability issues with devices within the ecosystem. Outside of it, you are pretty much on your own.

To realise the benefits of the Apple ecosystem, you really have to invest heavily into it. If all of your devices are Apple, things work really well. If you have a mix, then you won't realise all of the benefits.

The same can be applied to any other ecosystem. However, I do find that the Android and Symbian devices that I use can interoperate better with other devices than Apple devices can. Getting things in and out of the "crystal prison" can be a pain sometimes.

posted on 30 May 2012, 16:40

94. Stuntman (Posts: 836; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)

"i'm sure we all will be visiting here tomorrow so lets keep a look out to see if taco50 is making it up or if android users are attacking people in apple articles." -- good2great

It would be unfortunate if that is the reason people are visiting here. I would hope that people visit here to continue one of the better discussions (assuming you ignore the noise) I have seen on this site in a while.

posted on 30 May 2012, 16:52 1

95. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)

We all know they are

posted on 30 May 2012, 16:56

96. Stuntman (Posts: 836; Member since: 01 Aug 2011)

I don't think this will work for most people. First of all, many people who buy a smartphone (especially for the first time) probably doesn't know exactly what they want. Selling a device that is ready to use out of the box is what many people want.

A part of what makes Apple really successful is that they market their devices well to people who do not know much about smartphones. Apple shows people that this device fits into their every day lives. It doesn't matter about CPU speed or how much ram, or GPU. You can take pictures and share them with people you know. Brilliant. Also, Apple has been able to build up their brand and the iPhone brand. My wife likes her iPhone because it's an iPhone and not because of what it does.

Now try selling a car. If you say, pick your engine, pick your tires, pick your seats, etc., you'd lose me. I know little about cars. Just let me pick a colour and if it handles well on my test drive and has standard power windows, AC, etc, I'll be happy. Ask me about what engine I want, what tires and I have no idea what to decide. My wife just wants certain brands of cars and she'll be happy.

Soon, phones will be like cars. Many people won't understand the details of what's under the hood of a car just like what OS is running on your phone. They just want their phone to be able to communicate with people and run smoothly just like they want their car to get them from A to B smoothly (and perhaps look cool while driving). If you tell me I can pick any engine and install it myself, I'll go elsewhere.

I'm sure there are some people who would love to build their own car with all of the specific parts they want. Those are in the minority.

posted on 30 May 2012, 17:14

97. Mxyzptlk (unregistered)

You're just asking for a flame war to start with your immature comment.

posted on 30 May 2012, 17:16

98. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4708; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)

Just like with the auto industry, you'd be dependent on the sales person to have the knowledge for what their customers want or need. The reason I chose the PC market as an example is because there are 2 options in it. Buy one off the shelf ready to go, or customize it to your liking. If you go to some PC makers websites, the one you'd buy off the shelf is a starting point. Then you can check off what you want or don't, and the price changes accordingly. The problem with smartphones is how they're built. Everything is soldered to the mainboard, so you don't have sockets to allow for using different CPUs, GPUs, ram, etc. Currently smartphones are like an eMachines PC, everything inside is soldered with little to no ability to upgrade them. They have a few models and what you see is what you get. Add on top of that the different cellular radios for each carrier, and as I said it's almost impossible to fully customize a smartphone. Even if you could custom order it through the manufacturer, the cost would probably be around $2-3,000. Smartphone OEMs are a volume business, they design a model, the specs are set in stone, & it's off to the races in terms of manufacturing. Maybe someday technology could allow for custom phones, but we're not there yet, if ever. I was merely pointing out that it has happened in other industries, so it is possible. No one in the late eighties or early nineties would have believed that you could build your own PC and have it end up the way they do today. Apple's first PC had a wood case because no one was marketing cases for that kind of thing, so they improvised. In the span of 20 years, we could see the same thing in this industry as well. Who knows?

posted on 30 May 2012, 21:34 1

102. remixfa (Posts: 14597; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

You mean like how I just noticed that Taco opened up the first comment on the Apple wants US jobs thread with personal attacks against me for no reason... and then continued on with it when questioned?? lol.

there is mud thrown back and forth and both sides have their trolls, but none compare to the ignorance of taco or his bumbling sidekick, gallito.

posted on 30 May 2012, 22:12

104. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

The PC market is part of the catalyst for the idea, as is the auto industry, due to interchangeability of parts and being able to make an owned device last longer. While the phone industry (and consumer electronics in general) thrives on the replaceability of the devices, if upgradeability were an option, the same folk who like upgrading and repairing their cars and computers instead if buying a new one when the old one feels old or breaks one part, might find that appealing. Yes, cell phones are marketed as semi-disposable, and the people who buy into the mentality of "buy fast, learn fast" are the consumerist version of lemmings

posted on 30 May 2012, 22:48

106. kach22 (Posts: 153; Member since: 04 Nov 2011)

This is one of the best written post. Loved the way you used sane logic.

posted on 31 May 2012, 00:36

107. RichieRich379 (Posts: 21; Member since: 23 Mar 2012)

what the heck did you just mumbled,,,wow what a waste of time ,, i would never get those seconds that i spent reading your post ever again. He wrote 3 paragraphs to say :...there is no right and wrong...only what works for you. WOW

posted on 31 May 2012, 00:57

108. speckledapple (Posts: 892; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)

i agree. It really does come down to what works for you. I like customization of everything thus Apple products have never appealed to me. But that is my preference as its who I am not a wrong or right factor on the count of Apple. The back and forth with different camps saying god all about each other and the companies they support has become too loud to listen to.

posted on 31 May 2012, 01:02

110. ilia1986 (unregistered)


You are treating people generally as idiots who are only capable of using that which lies directly on the surface. While that may be true for some - it is completely false for many many many others.

Take cars. You can customize cars. But it takes a huge amount of effort and knowledge. You gotta take the entire car apart, understand how everything works and is put together, and then try to upgrade the engine, change the steering wheel or something like that. Only true professionals can do that.

But software is different!! It has unlimited potential by design! If you want to customize an Android phone - you don't have to take the phone apart - you don't have to understand how the 3G antennae works, or how the kernel handles the CPU. You just gotta download different launchers, apps, themes, widgets, whatnot. It's the same as using your phone on the regular basis. You can just do a whole lot more with Android.

And that is why Android is much more capable than iOS will ever be.

posted on 31 May 2012, 21:58

114. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)

you say dumb ass things bout ANDROID. like how we copy and this phone looks like the iPhone but it doesnt. i can go on and on bout u gallitoking. you're a ingorant iFAN

posted on 31 May 2012, 22:01

115. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)


posted on 30 May 2012, 10:36 8

2. ilia1986 (unregistered)

The gospel truth. Finally someone up high is willing to admit it. Ever since 2007..

posted on 30 May 2012, 10:36 7

3. android_hitman (unregistered)

true... apple is sick

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