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Dutch judge says Apple's patent on "slide to unlock" is probably invalid

0. phoneArena 25 Aug 2011, 18:23 posted on

The same Dutch judge that ordered the preliminary injunction against the sale of three Samsung handsets due to the patent infringement on three Apple patents, is saying that the "slide to unlock" patent that Apple holds is "not inventive" and therefore probably not valid...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 25 Aug 2011, 22:36 1

35. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


And who created the trend again? It's Apple. It's one thing to follow a trend, but it's another thing to just copy what someone else did.

Unfortunately, even when the copying is pretty obvious, android devices still get away with it somehow. And that's alright. But nomone should blame Apple for at least trying to stop it.

If Apple is guilty of copying features like their notification bar on iOS5 or for anything, then let them sue Apple. But why didn't they? Because they know that Apple has the right to use those features.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 00:27 1

50. BigEaze22 (Posts: 25; Member since: 17 May 2011)


They don't sue because they still have to keep up with all of the apple lawsuits.
iOS 5 is not all from apple imagination, so don't act like it is

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 00:41 1

55. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


They don't sue Apple because they don't have a case.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 12:04

89. taz89 (Posts: 2014; Member since: 03 May 2011)


maybe they are not sue happy as apple on a serious note though regardless if the notification system is patented or not apple copied/imitated still. now from reading all your comments, you have no issues with apple copying but when someone copies apple you dont like it..now correct me if i am wrong but that is just pure hypocrisy and i see that fro a lot of apple fanboys..its all right for apple to do it but its weong for someone else..pretty much everything in ios5 is taken from android and other os's..now regardless if the features copied are patented or not, IT IS STILL COPYING.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 14:16

109. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


@taz. Maybe, maybe, maybe. You are obviously not sure. Again, anyone should sue Apple if they believe that Apple infringed on their patented technology. I have said that many, many times. You cannot say that Apple infringed on a feature or copied it unless proven in court. That is why Apple is taking all of these copycats to court. They should take Apple to court as well if Apple infringed their patents. So that instead of saying "maybe", we can be more certain whether or not they are entitled to a feature.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 05:52 1

76. PeterIfromsweden (Posts: 1230; Member since: 03 Aug 2011)


Have the right to use notification bar ???
If apple has the right to use the notification bar, then other manufacturers has the right to use swipe to unlock !

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 14:19

110. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


@peter. Unless someone owns that feature and refuses to give anyone the right to use it. Just because Apple bought or owned rights to several features, it does not mean that everyone does as well.

posted on 25 Aug 2011, 21:59 1

21. M0nkeyBr (Posts: 77; Member since: 13 Jul 2011)


#TEAMBlackberry hasnt been affected yet :)
Does Apple think they created the phone

posted on 25 Aug 2011, 22:27

31. GETAGRIPNIPPLE (unregistered)


seriously? could you imagine if one company who made a big black glossy flatscreen TV started suing every other manufacturer because thier TV's look similar? The only winners would be the lawyers and the company suing every one if it wins. We the consumers lose out, we would be paying more for the product to cover the costs of legal fees, by having less choice because there is little or no competition, which would also mean they can charge what ever they like as they would have a virtual monopoly. Why are people supporting apple for these rediculous claims? Do they want to have no choice? do they want to pay more?

posted on 25 Aug 2011, 22:40

36. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


So what are you suggesting? Get rid of all patents? You know whay you think that way? Because you are not capable of creating or innovating anything either. You are not protecting a business. You're the kind who would just copy someone's idea on a school project because you're too lazy to come up with your own. I bet you're the kind who copies a lot of your classmates' homework :)

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 00:31 1

52. GETAGRIPNIPPLE (unregistered)


why do people have the need to insult others just because they have a different opinion? I just dont get it. Anyway, Look I can see your point, and I can agree with it to a certain level, but then there is also a point where staking a claim to intellectual property can go to far, and I think Apple are crossing this line. Now lets say some average joe lodged the first patent for a tablet type device, should he have the right to stop anyone else from making anything remotely similar because he came up with the idea first? And in Apples case they didnt even come up with it first, and in some cases they simply lodged a whole bunch of vague sketches. Come on, a real invention, yes, this type of carry on I think is a bit much.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 00:54

59. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Maybe because they deserve the sarcasm.

Apple is doing what they're doing because the copying has gone too blatant for comfort. A lot of the devices that are being released are mostly iphone and ipad knock offs. At first it was tolerable. The iphone was capacitive touch with multi touch gestures, while the others were using resistive touch with styluses. The iphone relied heavily on 3rd party apps, while the others on native apps. The iphone distinctively used icons for their apps, while others used folders. The iphone had a UI that can be set apart from the others. Samsung had their croix UI then. But look at what's happening now. Everyone has adopted capacitive. Everyone has an App Store. Everyone integrated multi touch gestures similar to that of iDevices. Everyone uses icons similar to how it's arranged on the iphone. Gyroscope integration. Accelerometers. Proximity sensors, etc. Yes, Apple did not invent those features, but they've effectively integrated those set of features into their iDevices before anyone else. That's Apple's innovation. Those are their fresh ideas as to which set or combination of features can set their iDevices apart from everyone else. But everyone else are doing the same things as well. That's copying.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 01:22 2

65. BigEaze22 (Posts: 25; Member since: 17 May 2011)


I see, you are one of those people that use a company to give you an identity. Apple is not God. They do not invent everything new phones today have. a patent infringed upon gives a normal company 2 options. pay royalties or countersue if they find other infringed patents.Apple instead has one. CLAIM EVERY PATENT THAT OTHER COMPANIES USE BEFORE ANYONE ELSE DOES. Apple is like that host of a party that screws with you the whole time, and looks like you're the one right next to them copying what they say

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 14:26

111. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


@bigeaze. Don't play naive. Look at the phones pre and post iphone. It's very obvious how everyone is trying to imitate iDevices. Before the iphone, what was the hottest device? It was the N95 and Blackberries. What types of phones did Samsung produce at that time? N95-like devices. How many capacitive touchscreen phones did Samsung release at that time? NONE. Did the N95 have slide to unlock? Nope. How many Samsung phones have accelerometers, proximity sensors, gyroscope, pinch to zoom, etc features? NONE. Now look at Samsung phones after the iphone was released. Come on. Don't be blind, or stop playing blind.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 01:02 1

61. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


By the way. I apologize if I came offensive to you.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 00:51 2

58. android_hitman (unregistered)


gemini i am so sorry for your mental problem ... let's all agree with him just to make him fell better

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 00:59

60. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Hahahaha. Thanks for your concern, but I am mentally fine. But yes, you're better off agreeing with me because I do make a lot of sense, and you are irked by it :)

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 01:26

66. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Google is the king of imitation. They imitated Yahoo, although I do like Google better than Yahoo. They're doing the same with Apple with their android OS, this time I prefer iOS and Apple is giving android a hard time (good for Apple). And they're pulling the same trick with Facebook with their google+. Although I can't wait for google+ to go live so I could dump Facebook, hahahahaha. See, I'm not biased when I see a good product ;)

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 12:13 1

90. taz89 (Posts: 2014; Member since: 03 May 2011)


when there is a 1st idea someone will always try and compete with it. when something becomes a standard in the industry, others will follow using the same standards.
you say google copied apple but apple did not make the 1st touchscreen phone. what apple did do is make the first touch friendly consumer phone..now just cause there device was more popular does not mean it is original..also you state everyone started using capacitive because apple uses it, i disagree capacitive is just a improved touch screen..its like saying tv manufactures should still make non hd tvs.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 14:32

112. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Who cares. It's all about having LEGAL ownership of what you use. Example: let's say Samsung invented capacitive technology and then Apple bought the rights to it. Who is the legal owner? Samsung or Apple? APPLE. What you're providing are EXCUSES. And that wouldn't work in the courtroom.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 02:44

68. haha (unregistered)


i just read through this whole post. can anyone else spot the guy with no life?

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 14:33

113. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Ummmmm, you :)

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 03:00 4

70. u-suck-more (Posts: 529; Member since: 26 Aug 2011)


i have been reading the comments this article has and i must say 530gemini is very close minded. everything is pro-Apple. first, im no Apple fan boy or and android fan either. im neutral between the 2. but i must say 530gemini comments are UTTERLY RIDICULOUS!

first he says Apple created e capacitive touch screen which they dint. Apple only LAUNCHED the MULTI-TOUCH capacitive screen. and the word launch clearly does not equal to create!
http://www.erwanmace.com/2010/03/apple-did-not-invent-apps-and-touchscreen-phones-they-only-made-it-mainstream/
he than goes on to say tt if Samsung based their phones on neonode n1m, samsung devices should use resistive screen like the neonode n1m. tt clearly makes no sense at all to use technology for 6 years ago on a modern flagship. if only Apple can use capacitive screens, the new phones from other manufacturers will be branded as using old tech. technology is improved so that it benefits EVERYONE not just one company/person in particular. if Samsung, LG, Motorola and etc cannot use capacitive screens, their phones would be uninspiring and no one would want to buy them (which seems to be Apple's goal).
530gemini also says tt the neonode n1m unlocking doesnt have graphics, but wad Apple did was to improve on the lock screen to make it more pleasing to the eye. its call improving the device/tech ! ultimately the iphone unlocking gestures copies the neonode's way of unlocking the phone but Apple only made it more pleasing to the eye.

secondly, 530gemini says everyone is copying Apple and that they are using the trends set by Apple in their own phones. first of all, Apple also copies other manufacturers/OS. For example, iOS5 will feature the drop down notifications bar which is already on andriod devices. the iphone's form factor is copied from the world's FIRST TOUCH SCREEN PHONE the LG Prada (the judge also brings this point out in his ruling and phonearena has apparently left it out) and tt the iphone design is minimalist which doesnt protect it from design copies and he rendered this patent invaild. the menu of the iphone is also copied from a Nokia device (i dont rmb which model tho) and the judge also brought up tt point in his statement. i would like to bring up the following trends tt Apple DID NOT start .
1) Dual-Core phones. LG started this trend and the iphone 5 is rumored to have dual core processors too. this means Apple is copying the other manufacturers too
2) Awesome displays. Samsung started this with their SuperAmoled on the Galaxy S. Later, Apple BOUGHT a display (retina) that can be compared to the galaxy s. so this is apple copying again.
3) Pull down notifications. Originally from android and soon to be featured on iOS5
the only thing i can think tt Apple did was to revolutionize apps. other than that, i cant think of anything new Apple brought to the table.

just being realistic here (:

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 12:16 1

91. taz89 (Posts: 2014; Member since: 03 May 2011)


someone who actually can think for themselves and is not biased and not thinking with a fanboy brain

posted on 27 Aug 2011, 13:11

121. u-suck-more (Posts: 529; Member since: 26 Aug 2011)


thanks ^^

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 15:04 1

114. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


@usuck. First of all, I never said that Apple created capacitive touch. I don't know who did, but I can Bing or Google it for you. So I don't know why you're saying that I said that. Well if Samsung is claiming that they are getting their implementation from Neonode, then it would make sense for them to use resistive. The fact that they are using capacitive with animations to slide and unlock, just proves that they got their idea more from iphone, not Neonode. Back in 2008, Samsung touchscreen phones were resistive. And users made fun of the iphone's capacitive display, remember? But anyway, Apple has influenced everyone to use capacitive screens but is not suing anyone for it, so you can scratch that off. Any significant improvement, whether eye candy or added functionality is an innovation that can be patented. Which is what Apple did.

You said that Apple also copies as well. If that's the case, then let them sue Apple. By them not suing Apple, it only means that Apple has every right to use those existing technologies or features, which means, that is not copying, but rather just using what's ALREADY out there, that no one really has ownership of. By the way, LG Prada is not the first touchscreen phone. Htc have been making touchscreen phones years before LG Prada came out. Also, the iphone's retina display came out before superamoled. Don't confuse amoled with superamoled. Also amoled display is a different technology than ips lcd, so I don't think that's copying.

I think the problem here is that you are not getting the legalitiy of things. Let me ask you this.

1. Is it legal for Apple to put in dual core processors in their iDevices?

2. Is it legal for iphone to use LG's retina display on their ip4?

3. Does google have sole ownership of the pull down notification bar?

Now here are the other questions,

1. Did Apple get a patent award for that swipe to unlock with animation on a capacitive display? Yes

2. Did Samsung get a patent to use swipe to unlock with animation on a capacitive display? No

Now, I am not saying that Samsung has no way out of this, for there are obviously loopholes in the patent system which is what they are trying to figure out. That's why they are bringing up neonode, even when it is obvious that it is the iphone that they're copying.

There's a difference between having legal rights to use EXISTING features or technology vs using patented features that someone exclusively owns and have exclusive rights to.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 17:11 1

119. corps1089 (Posts: 492; Member since: 20 Jan 2010)


"1. Did Apple get a patent award for that swipe to unlock with animation on a capacitive display? Yes"

Obvious improvement to those familiar with industry: Patent invalid

"2. Did Samsung get a patent to use swipe to unlock with animation on a capacitive display? No"

Prior art: Patent invalid.

your logic is fail:
"You said that Apple also copies as well. If that's the case, then let them sue Apple. By them not suing Apple, it only means that Apple has every right to use those existing technologies or features, which means, that is not copying,"

It does not "only" mean that Apple has every right to copy; it could also mean:
A) The company who invented the technology did not seek patent protection because they didn’t want to bother
B) The company who invented the technology did not seek patent protection because they did not want to disclose their IP since that is part of the patent process
C) The company who invented the technology did seek patent protection but was not awarded a patent
D) The company who invented the technology did seek patent protection but has not yet been awarded a patent
E) The company who invented the technology did seek patent protection has been awarded a patent, but they believe it too costly to sue
F) The company who invented the technology did seek patent protection has been awarded a patent and they believe it worthwhile to sue but have not filed yet.

Regardless, doing something does not grant that you automatically have the right to do it because no one protested.
If you copy something, it is copying: legal or illegal, but still copying.

The reason Apple looks so bad in these actions is not because they are going after other companies or protecting their interests or that they innovated in the mobile space [no arguing that they didn’t]. The reason is that EVERYONE HATES A HYPOCRITE: Apple copied and was successful with it and now are trying to prevent other companies from doing the same to them. Yes, they may have been granted patents they have a legal right to protect, but they copied and are trying to stop others from copying.


You are correct on prior touch screen devices existed and the timing of AMOLED, Retina, and Super AMOLED.

posted on 27 Aug 2011, 13:28

122. u-suck-more (Posts: 529; Member since: 26 Aug 2011)


i read on gsmarena tt the LG Prada was the world's first touch phone so yea (: n u did say Apple created capacitive displays. its in one of ur many comments.
now why do u think other companies like LG are not suing Apple?
1) they do REAL business
2) they believe competition is necessary to help each other improve
3) they know they would be wasting their money suing Apple because of the sheer amount of patents Apple has.

now the thing here is not whether it is legal for Apple to use dual core chipsets / the retina display on their phones, the thing is copying. in ur MANY comments protecting Apple, u say Samsung is copying Apple. i have never said tt it was not legal for Apple to use those tech on their devices i was just merely showing u wad things Apple copied from. also Apple is not suing any1 over capacitive touchscreens because they do not own it. if Samsung were to keep their phones stuck with resistive screens no one would buy it. also Apple's i-phone was based on the LG Prada so shouldnt it be using resistive screen like the original Prada phone?

copying IS copying whether u like or not. in this case Apple has the patents for the things they copied which puts them at an advantage. Apple should spend their money on making their products more innovative rather than spending it in the courtroom. Apple is clearly trying to monopolise the smartphone market.

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 04:27 1

73. chezzitstealer (Posts: 17; Member since: 03 Aug 2011)


i kinda like apple products they have good hardware and run great. BUT! its boring there is no customization to it at all its a screen with apps. and i dont think that they need to sue every one! once someone comes out with something better like galaxy s ll they sue them because the dont want to loose there lead. and i admit that galaxy s ll kind looks like and iPhone with the 1 hardware home button but come on shut up apple your not the world leader. and not every one wants to be you!

posted on 26 Aug 2011, 12:31

92. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)


At least this judge says it's NOT THE SAME AS THE Icrap slide lock

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