Does Windows Phone get a fair shake in US retail stores?
0. phoneArena posted on 18 Nov 2011, 17:48
The average customer relies on store representatives to present them with unbiased recommendations based on their needs. In this video a customer who is looking to purchase his first smartphone...
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1. shy2papa posted on 18 Nov 2011, 17:56 9 7
Look the fact of the matter is WP7 still dose not have what it takes to go up against iOS or the people's choice Andriod.
MS has to work hard to make WP7 UI more attractive and give people the chioce to customise it the way they want.
3. Penny posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:08 8 2
That's debatable. WP7 has what it takes to up against iOS and Android, it just depends on what you are looking to get out of your device, because each platform has its benefits and pitfalls.
8. vvelez5 posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:17 9 1
I don't know what you mean by "attractive" but it is considered that the Metro UI is the best looking UI out there. Obviously not the easiest to use like IOS or gives you the best customization like Android. But the prettiest by far.
10. taco50 (banned) posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:21 3 3
Who says its the best looking. I have never heard that before.
14. vvelez5 posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:44 12 1
Many people simply because IOS is basically a collection of apps and Android can start looking very clustered. The live tiles with the black background looks great and many sites and reviews agree.
15. taco50 (banned) posted on 18 Nov 2011, 19:01 4 6
That's totally opinion, but seriously most people think its one of the uglier OS's. At least in the US.
19. vvelez5 posted on 18 Nov 2011, 19:19 12 0
Never heard anyone say the Metro UI is considered ugly And it isnt opinion that IOS is a collection of apps and Android can start looking clustered. But of course to what is "pretty" is opinion but when several reviews and people say its pretty then you start to think that they may have a point. and being American and living in America I've never heard one person call the Windows UI ugly. And I am not exaggerating. But I'm sure people dont like the way it looks.
32. snowgator posted on 19 Nov 2011, 00:13 4 0
One thing is for sure: Metro UI is a love it/hate it thing. The more popular WP gets (and it will) the more polarizing it will become. Without the ability of manufacturers to put a skin on the devices the way you can on Android, the live tiles concept is it's selling point. And if you fall into the group that dislikes it's looks, WP has lost you. I love the function and the advantages of the live tiles, and I can see dozens of ways Nokia, Samsung, HTC and all the other handset makers can make hubs and tweaks to make each of their WP offerings unique. But there will still not be the Sense VS. Touchwiz VS. Motoblur type distinctions. Maybe that puts Microsoft at a slight disadvantage to Google. But the trade-off is a smooth UI experience with updates that come quickly and firmware improvements that will not "brick" your device.
Whew, way more long winded than I meant that to be. Just wanted to agree with vvelez......
54. vvelez5 posted on 19 Nov 2011, 17:29 1 0
LOL always love your comments snowgator whether I agree with them or not.
62. remixfa posted on 19 Nov 2011, 20:22 1 0
i just love gator.. he tastes like chicken. :)
66. snowgator posted on 20 Nov 2011, 00:20 0 0
Dude... I am way creeped out right now...
67. vvelez5 posted on 20 Nov 2011, 06:13 1 0
But gator you do taste like chicken. With like a fishy texture to you.
69. remixfa posted on 20 Nov 2011, 16:18 1 0
a lil on the rubbery side if its premade. thats how you can always tell fresh snowgator from left over snowgator. :) :) :)
55. Uzzelien posted on 19 Nov 2011, 17:33 0 0
I do see it as a disadvatage but more of an advantage. Look at how long it takes HTC or Samsung to release Android X.XXX to the phones after it comes out and is RTM compared to WP7's last RTM to phone. Like you said the updates come a lot faster. They don't even talk about how much better support it has for Word, Excel, Power Point and Share Point then Android does.
24. shimmyx20 posted on 18 Nov 2011, 20:03 3 0
I definitely think Metro is the best looking. I have an iPod (had an iPhone 3G), and I have had several Android phones with all the major skins (TouchWiz, Blur, and Sense). My current phone, a Samsung Focus, has the best looking UI of all of them. Windows 7 paired with a Super AMOLED screen is really great looking.
70. T00muchF00D posted on 19 Dec 2011, 09:34 0 0
The Engadget crew and the Gizmodo crew did
26. Dr.Phil posted on 18 Nov 2011, 21:31 4 0
If you had post this a year ago, I would have agreed with you. But, now that Mango has been released I would have to say you may be wrong. With the introduction of Live Tiles, WP7 is a unique and I must say attractive OS. I mean the idea of being able to look at your device and find out basic information without having to go into an application is great. Also, WP7 was the first one to truly be optimized for HTML5 while Android and iOS have been playing around the entire time and now we know that Flash is no longer going to be offered for mobile platforms. While WP7 does need to step it up in terms of graphics (which the other day they were looking for people to "bring the heat" when it comes to graphics and games), at the same time it has the fastest growing app market. I don't think WP7 is trying to appeal to those who really care what picture they have on their background or whether they are allowed to put applications in this pane or that pane. The whole premise behind WP7 is that people aren't absorbed into their phones but rather you can work efficiently without having to go through several different menus and opening applications to find what you need.
Now, I will admit WP7 is still lagging behind the other OS' in terms of technology as well as overall appeal. But, I have a very very strong feeling that next year with the release of Windows 8 and Metro UI coming to all Microsoft applications (your PC, your Xbox 360, and your phone) you will see more and more people looking at windows phone. This idea that you can access your computer profile from your mobile phone or your Xbox Live account from your mobile phone and still play with your friends is really quite interesting. Also, Microsoft did buy Skype so you will most likely see a good integration of that as well.
59. downphoenix posted on 19 Nov 2011, 19:57 2 0
Its still a plenty viable OS, certainly more mature in the app sector than Blackberry but carriers still tend to push those more, and that video above just further demonstrates it.
68. CellularNinja posted on 20 Nov 2011, 07:10 1 0
so, so biased. . . You don't have to like it, but it can compete with the other OSs. It doesn't have to be your favorite to be a great OS.
2. taco50 (banned) posted on 18 Nov 2011, 17:58 9 0
Majority of sales reps in store and over the phone are actually not much more educated then the average consumer. You could tell this girl didn't really know what she was talking about. Also as can be seen by the comment section on here a lot of them are very biased and will try to push their favorite phone on you.
Sales people don't try to sell windows phones right now, but that's kind of microsofts fault. They haven't created much demand for the phone. They also have higher return rates which goes against the sales rep.
31. snowgator posted on 19 Nov 2011, 00:02 4 0
As I say this, understand I am not trying to call you out Taco- I know that happens to you a lot. But I have never heard of Windows Phones being returned a lot. As a matter of a fact- it was the amazing rate of customer satisfaction for Windows Phones that got me to go look into them. I had a horrid experience with Windows Mobile, and it is very old news that when lumped in with Win Mo that it appeared as though WP was rated real low. But WP itself is very well recieved and those that owned a first gen WP sold me on them.
48. remixfa posted on 19 Nov 2011, 13:38 2 0
taco is right about return rates. HD7's were boomarangs at first. People were all excited about them, but when they realized the WP7 was lacking a lot of features they had in android, a very large chunk of them went back to andriod instead.
A lot of that was not proper expectactions by the sales reps (who most knew jack about the device themselves), and an expectation by unknowing customers that WP7 did all the stuff the old windows phones did, just nicer.
The "boomerang" effect has died down quite a bit, but so have sales since then. You scare the sales reps from selling it and the phone is toast.
60. downphoenix posted on 19 Nov 2011, 20:07 0 0
Returns due to features is not the same as returns due to issues with phone. WP7 may have initially saw high returns due to features, but I rather have a phone returned due to features than due to issues. My optimus for instance didnt ring at all today and my wife tried calling me several times. The phone has worked good for a year, but now its starting to crap out on me, coincidentally enough when Im out of the manufacturer warranty. If I had gone WP7 instead, Im sure it will still be working good. I cant rely on my phone anymore after what happened. She was pissed at me, she thought I was ignoring her calling or had the volume off or misplaced the phone or something like that, but it was with me the entire time with ringer, it just didnt ring or receive any incoming messages. Particularly strange since the mobile web was working on the phone just fine, and when I sent her a text, because I hadnt heard from her in a while, it seemed to go through fine on my end, but she didnt receive.
63. remixfa posted on 19 Nov 2011, 20:25 0 0
in sales... returns are returns.
and actually the HD7 has had a lot of issues since the mango update. I have warrantied more HD7's in the last month than i remember selling in the 6 prior months.. lol. Some weird issue where it just decides to hang and become a permanent brick randomly. Did like 5 in the week after mango came out and have been slow n steady ever since. For a phone that didnt sell that well to begin with.. thats a lot.
5. CannedKarma posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:13 3 2
As a Verizon store manager, I'll readily admit that I'm prone to telling customers we carry Android and iPhone when first asked as those are our top sellers. When a customer comes into the store looking for a new phone, and lets me know what sort of experience they're after, I'll certainly use that information to better quality them into a WP7 handset if it's applicable. The problem goes in a couple main ways: first off, there's not a 4G WP7 handset on Verizon, so it by default gets the short stick when you're considering the best promos that are offered, and then there's the issue of selling what's on hand to the customer versus what would need to be special ordered. Very few stores actually have stock of the Trophy on-hand, and one of the eternal mantras of any retail store is to sell what's available today. That said, none of my reps are familiar with WP7, and even the official Verizon training materials are incorrect in their descriptions. Our online manuals list WP7 as having a 'PC-like experience'.
Until a manufacturer takes a leap of faith to build an LTE WP7.5 handset, the devices will continue to gather dust in a warehouse, and the reps won't let the customers know about them. It's sad, but it all boils down to what is most popular to sell, especially when the people working the stores aren't all interested in knowing EVERY platform on the market inside out.
Lastly, it's exactly like taco50 said: Microsoft has done a deplorable job of marketing WP7 in its first year. This is compounded by the fact that Windows Mobile, which is more often than not confused with Windows Phone 7, was a terrible OS that those who were familiar with it were burned enough by it to never give a successor OS another shot.
9. taco50 (banned) posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:20 3 1
Windows mobile was a mess. It's hard for a lot of people to get over that and give them another chance. Consumers and sales people.
33. snowgator posted on 19 Nov 2011, 00:24 2 1
We know LTE and dual core options are coming for WP, so that part will take care of itself. Besides, every carrier is headed to LTE, so it is not like Microsoft has a choice. Other options such as expandable memory and different form factors also have to come. Why is it this second gen of Mango flavored handsets seems fine with giving every consumer who wants a full qwerty keyboard or extra room for media to Android? Beyond me to understand.
But the marketing problems, especially from a giant like Microsoft, is really lost to me. I cannot fathom Microsoft not pumping ad campaign after ad campaign to push it until they find the one that works. Sorta like Gieco or Budwieser- they each have like three different ad campaigns going on at any one time. Than they just run with the more successful ones until they run their course.
40. risee2 posted on 19 Nov 2011, 06:57 1 1
As a manger why are giving pushing blame back on WP7 for not having a LTE device or Microsoft not marketing the devices. And admitting your stores don't have the Trophy in stock and your staff is not trained on WP7. Thats is the whole problem you as a manager or Verizon should have one person trained on WP7 since its in your store. That's the problem I have when into Verizon stores for any device untrained staff.
Actually the WP7 does have a PC like experience. Windows Mobile wasn't that bad. Move on from the past. True Windows fans will keep coming back. A device that speaks for its self doesn't need adds that saturate the market.
46. CannedKarma posted on 19 Nov 2011, 11:52 2 0
Where to start with this...
WP7 does not have a PC like experience in the slightest. Metro UI is entirely different from anything you've seen traditionally on any Windows platform. And 'true windows' fans? Considering the divergence between the two systems, that has nothing to do with it either.
And yes, a device that speaks for itself still needs marketing. Why do you think the iPhone is so successful? Because Apple has one of the best marketing strategies and follow-throughs of any company in the world right now. If you don't market your product, it will do poorly solely through the virtue of no one knowing about it. Very basic marketing theory.
Microsoft is to blame for not marketing WP7. Just about every critic who has lauded the platform has brought this up repeatedly. Check your sources.
As for not having at least one person at the store trained on WP7, I am the tech expert at my store for all the platforms. When my reps aren't familiar with something, they come to me. When we have down time, I pass along the knowledge I have to them. That's the point of being the manager -- those who work for me know they can come to me with their questions.
49. remixfa posted on 19 Nov 2011, 13:40 2 1
lol, your one of the few. I have managers from other stores calling me for answers. It was like that when i worked for VZW as well. Most managers are just promoted sales reps that were good at keeping their numbers high. The game changes so fast now that most managers no longer really keep up with the product anymore.
51. ThePhoneGURU posted on 19 Nov 2011, 14:11 0 0
as a verizon rep i completely agree. I however do like WP7 but customers are lead towards android and iphone and most of the time never even get shown WP7. I hope they come out with a LTE model, that would be the only way Verizon is going to sell one.
56. Uzzelien posted on 19 Nov 2011, 17:50 0 1
" first off, there's not a 4G WP7 handset on Verizon, so it by default gets the short stick when you're considering the best promos that are offered "
The iPhone isn't 4G LTE either and really it's pointless to have a 4G phone right now as much of any of the networks aren't 4G and aren't going to be for two years.
" Until a manufacturer takes a leap of faith to build an LTE WP7.5 handset, the devices will continue to gather dust in a warehouse "
Yet you push iPhones all the time to people.
" It's sad, but it all boils down to what is most popular to sell, especially when the people working the stores aren't all interested in knowing EVERY platform on the market inside out."
It's true the people in the stores don't care to learn or know about anything that is made.
57. ThePhoneGURU posted on 19 Nov 2011, 18:00 0 0
"It's true the people in the stores don't care to learn or know about anything that is made."
that is not true in every case. As a rep I do take pride in learning about all the products I sell. But some reps do just learn the basics and sell whats popular.
6. Luuthian posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:14 1 1
Of course Windows Phone doesn't get a fair shake, and I blame that more on Microsoft than the carriers.
Not only are hardware options extremely limited, but Microsoft has spent next to no money on training or marketing. They've done absolutely nothing to make the device seem desirable to anyone. And while their OS is beautifully simple, speedy, and easy to use, it's paired with exceptionally archaic hardware. Even its second generation phones, which were only recently released, are a generation behind. And lets not forget it has very little app support, and the Xbox service is a complete joke (it's overpriced, the games are old, and they're only released once a week).
My Focus was very near and dear to me upon release, but a year later I am an exceptionally frustrated customer. I feel like I bought into something with exceptional promise, only to be met with increasing disappointment... A disappointment which has peaked. I'm moving onto a droid as soon as we hit the new year.
Having been a steadfast owner for a year, I can completely see why no one recommends the phones yet. While I hope for the best come Windows Phone 8, and I do believe the OS has some amazing merits, it's no where near competitive with Android or Apple yet. WP7 needs a lot of love, and it needs it fast.
7. vvelez5 posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:15 3 0
I've sold alot of cell phones before and been with different companies and there is a definite bias salesmen have with what phones they sell. Myself I've sold all the phones and I usually match it to the needs of the customer but you have your fandroids and apple cultists out there who swear up and down that their respective phone is the best one ever. I've always held a soft spot for Windows Phone and love to show people its beautiful UI which is the most appealing UI over any other OS at the moment. I still push Blackberries too especially when people focus on messaging and security over anything else. But I actually have people that sell people things they dont ask for. My favorite one was last year when one salesmen who no longer works for us always sold the Epic 4G to everyone who comes in. Best Messenger? Epic. Best Service? Epic. Best Looking? Epic. Easiest to use? Epic. Most Secure? Epic. this guy cracked us up but he made sales and no one questioned him because of it. But there is a huge bias especially against windows phone which is just plain wrong.
11. taco50 (banned) posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:24 2 0
This website has let me see the mindset of some of these sales people. It makes me cringe.
13. vvelez5 posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:43 3 0
You should see the bias when you talk to them face to face.
38. risee2 posted on 19 Nov 2011, 06:28 2 0
Bias is the key word and thats why certain devices don't get sold. Going into a retail store for choosing a new phone or getting technical assistance for that device is a joke sometimes.
50. remixfa posted on 19 Nov 2011, 13:42 0 0
I know im one of very few that will recommend a BB or WP7 depending on the customer's needs. Most of i think has to do with worrying about the boomerang effect and most definitely lack of education on the newer products.
12. DJLegacy2k5 posted on 18 Nov 2011, 18:41 3 2
I work in an AT&T store, our store sells a TON of WP7 phones. The trick is to listen to the customer! If they want simple, streamlined, easy to see, read, setup, navigate then WP7 is perfect. Most people arent into downloading 10000 apps and honestly most are too stupid or lazy to take the time to learn android. Tons of people are finally learning that the iPhone is worthless and a rip off and blackberry is dead. WP7 should be offered to MOST customers because they want an EASY TO USE Smartphone...These retards in the store that just push ANDROID to 70 year olds or people that arent into apps and cant even use their home computer, should be fired! I know I would fire all of these idiots...
LEARN YOUR PRODUCTS AND QULIFY YOUR CUSTOMERS!
17. taco50 (banned) posted on 18 Nov 2011, 19:06 5 2
You're one of the biased reps I'm talking about.
"too stupid or lazy to take the time to learn android."
Ever thought some people may have better things to do with their life then fiddle with their phone. If the OS is complicated that's a miss on androids part.
"iPhone is worthless and a rip off and blackberry is dead."
How exactly is iPhone worthless? I can remind you not too long ago you were on here posting that you were sick of androids battery life and were considering a switch to iPhone.
Blackberry is still worthwhile for some consumers depending what they need.
You're the perfect example of the douchebag salesmen.
16. Whateverman posted on 18 Nov 2011, 19:06 4 0
This was just a horrible call basically. Poor training, didn't qualify the customer, didn't pull up her information either obviously. The first thing she should have been asking is what features the customer would like to see and what they would like to do on their phone. Is this going to be a work or personal phone, corporate or personal email, do you play games on your phone, use Facebook, twitter, YouTube, etc, etc... She just started giving suggestions without knowing the custome's needs, which led to a horrible experience for the customer.
With that said, I do believe WP7 gets pushed to the back for other devices. MS could help by making the UI a little more appealing, but some love it just the way it is. But it's not just wp7, it happens with all OSs depending on the rep you get. I remember a call where a customer was talked into a Droid ERIS even though he loved his old Palm 650. He called me completely frustrated with the ERIS because he still wanted a keyboard. I told him about the Pre Plus and the free tether VZW offered with it, waived his stocking fee and followed up with him a week later. No only did he love his phone, but his wife did too. If the rep before had qualified him on the first call, he would have never had that first bad experience. That's why I recommend doing your own research first, so you could never be TOLD what is best for you.
18. taco50 (banned) posted on 18 Nov 2011, 19:08 2 0
That's about the average call with any carrier. Most reps don't care to learn anymore than the bare minimum.
20. Whateverman posted on 18 Nov 2011, 19:22 4 0
And that's the problem with customer service as a whole. We're here daily learning and discovering new features, specs and technologies, but that's "not their job". Many only care about what their systems tell them.
21. priest2705 posted on 18 Nov 2011, 19:41 3 0
I work in an AT&T authorized retailer, and while I will admit that some of our reps don't really mention Windows phones, I have no problem with recommending them to people. Metro really is a good looking UI, they're dead simple to use, and the Xbox Live feature is nice. I usually recommend them to people interested in their 1st smartphone or who are looking for an easy to use smartphone. As for the lack of knowledge among reps, I can't speak for any store but mine. But in my store, there are 5 of us and we're all phone geeks. We read PA all day, stay up on what's new, and actually EDUCATE the consumer about the differences in the 4 major OS's that we carry
28. MorePhonesThanNeeded posted on 18 Nov 2011, 23:16 1 1
You mean 3 major OS's, WP7 isn't major by any stretch of the word. I do however like it's tiling effect, it's super smooth and integrates everything seamlessly. Finally MS got something working correctly, now if they hadn't sat on their laurels with that garbage windows mobile they would have been up there, now they are stuck fighting for 4th position with symbian...this is what I call epic. Great that they created a truly awesome OS but now with a market firmly in the hands of two juggernauts and one business savvy OS, where does that leave WP7? Heck they are already talking about WP8 and WP7 has barely been out 2 years...looks like MS is about to open mouth insert foot...again!
34. snowgator posted on 19 Nov 2011, 00:37 3 0
Why is it WP8 coming out is bad for WP7.5, but that you are not calling out Android for coming out with I.C.S. less than a year after Gingerbread and before all those handsets have even been updated from Froyo????
Exactly the bias we are refering to. Microsoft has totally righted their ship after the WinMo disaster, and everyone either is saying the improvements are too slow and are way too far behind, or that Microsoft is stupid to start planning for WP8 even as they kick off WP7.5. It is the four major OS's, because Microsoft is in this race to be a major player and is thinking several years ahead.
64. remixfa posted on 19 Nov 2011, 20:28 1 0
one of my last customers tonight kept talkin crap about the new HTC Radar because it ran WP7. I had to tell him about 8 times that WP7 had nothing to do with windows 5 and 6.... and then since he just refused to believe me I had to break it down in detail..
One of MS's biggest mistakes was naming its new OS Windows. People hear that and just shudder. Shoulda just called it metro or something else.
22. networkdood posted on 18 Nov 2011, 19:55 3 0
I go to Costco and the rep there is clueless on what phones are coming out.
36. snowgator posted on 19 Nov 2011, 00:51 2 0
Dood, I have never been to a Costco, but I have yet to see a Sales-Kid in a Best Buy that isn't lost. Painful to watch. Last experience I had was my inability to keep my mouth shut as the Sales-Kid was telling a couple my age that Blackberry was being bought out and wasn't going to be making their own phones anymore. Un-freaking-real.
25. nickjjay posted on 18 Nov 2011, 20:21 2 0
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing it with us.
27. dunyfunny posted on 18 Nov 2011, 23:11 1 0
some interesting numbers: there are 34 phones running WP7 and more than 25 of them are available in the USA. However, only Galaxy S I or iphone 3gs( not even mentioning 4 or 4s) were doubled or quadrupled of total sales of entire WP7 ones.
here are WP7 oneshttp://cleveland.backpage.com/
29. rsiders posted on 18 Nov 2011, 23:38 2 0
Well I could see this happening simply because 50 Android phones come out per month and Apple and Blackberry are very well known. Also sounds like the rep has no idea what Windows Phone has to offer. I asked a rep in T-Mobile if he liked Windows OS and he just looked at me like I was crazy and said \"I can\'t stand it. I use Android.\" And that\'s an honest opinion. It\'s all opionated. The POINT is Windows Phone offers something that is different from every other OS. No matter what app they come out with, no other OS has better and visually appealing way of integrating social networks and functionality. Clearly if it was the same as other OS Android, Apple, Blackberry lovers wouldn\'t be so harsh towards it.lol I love that it\'s different. I love that it\'s simple. I love that it\'s Windows.
30. Stuntman posted on 18 Nov 2011, 23:39 2 0
Can any of you tell me why I cannot find a single working demo model of a Windows Phone in any phone store for the past year? Windows Phone has been out for a year now and for the past year, every single Windows Phone I saw in any store is a fake shell with the home screen sticker on it. In all the stores I have visited, they have had working iPhones, working Android phones (high end models or featured models) and BlackBerrys. I have yet to see a working Windows Phone. That has been my biggest complaint with phone stores here in the Metro Vancouver area.
35. snowgator posted on 19 Nov 2011, 00:47 1 0
My first experience with WP was hearing good things about it and deciding to go to my local AT&T store to try it out. They had dummy phones for the Focus and Surround, but no live ones. Since the bigger seller in my area was actually the LG Quantum, they had to unpackage one of those and activate it for me so I could see it.
It took me three Verizon stores to find an active Trophy. One of those Verizon stores didn't even have a dummy phone or even pretended to care I was interested in it. It took me two Sprint stores to find an Arrive I could see. I am truly excited to see the Titan go on sale on the 20th, and I am really worried I will have to go to umpteen stores to find one live to compare to a Focus S. Your point is very, very valid.
44. rsiders posted on 19 Nov 2011, 10:15 0 0
Well I\'m sorry you\'re missing out dude. I go in the T-Mobile and AT&T stores and give all the new devices a spin, and they have the phones running the same day they launch. Going to take the Titan for a test drive tomorrow!:D I live in Baltimore, MD though.