Current state of Windows Phone: What's the hold up?
0. phoneArena 03 Jun 2013, 13:58 posted on
Something is dreadfully wrong, terribly wrong in the Windows Phone camp! If you’ve somehow stumbled across one of my social networking accounts, whether it’s Twitter or Google+, you’re probably well aware about some of the devices I personally use. Being a reviewer and all, it’s...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 3759; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)
I hope things change...
Microsoft will not be able to keep up with Android at this pace.
Sales will be consistent for WP but while we are at the current status of 8, surpassing Android still feels like a dream.
6. SuperMaoriBro (Posts: 526; Member since: 23 Jun 2012)
Back when wp8 was announced I really wanted to get a device running it. But the products took months to arrive, I gave up waiting and bought a flagship android. Now im deep in the android eco system with no regrets. MS after you build hype make it easy for someone to purchase your products - we are an impatient bunch :)
13. squallz506 (banned) (Posts: 1075; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)
Wp8's market share is growing John V. Truth is most windows phones are world phones especially the nokia's. And to be a world phone, it is just easier to be a gsm sim card accepting phone. Sprint doesn't do that. It's Sprint's fault, not Microsoft's.
14. roldefol (Posts: 4242; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
Sprint doesn't use regular SIM cards on their LTE phones? What do they use then? I ask because while my VZW LTE phone wasn't initially a "world phone", it recently became one via software update.
16. tacarat (Posts: 770; Member since: 22 Apr 2013)
For compatibility where LTE isn't in place, Sprint and Verizon phones still have CDMA equipment built in for voice. LTE is mostly being used for data until more infrastructure is built up. It's why you can't use cellular voice and data on their iPhones in most areas just yet. Apple wouldn't make hardware adjustments for them, whereas a lot of Android makers would.
Or so I hear. Can't post links yet >.>
21. roldefol (Posts: 4242; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
True, LTE is data-only for now, but Verizon's infrastructure is almost complete. I just recently discovered the iPhone 5 doesn't allow simultaneous CDMA voice and LTE data, which is, for lack of a better word, crap. They didn't want to add (or lacked room for) a separate LTE antenna, and since CDMA accounts for only a small portion of Apple's sales, they didn't feel a need to accommate the carriers. So AT&T still has talk-and-surf bragging rights. Thanks, Apple!
That doesn't explain why Sprint couldn't carry a Lumia 92x though, since Nokia should definitely be able to support the extra antenna.
26. tacarat (Posts: 770; Member since: 22 Apr 2013)
I was incredibly surprised the i5 didn't do that for S/V. Apple does what Apple does, but still. As for Sprint, I have a feeling they don't want people considering other phones than iPhones and what they have now for a few reasons.
The first is that they have made contractual arrangements to sell a ton of iphones. There's probably a penalty if they fail to meet that.
Second, a new OS would require more training of staff on their end for support, more effort and all those things that add up to higher costs. Sprint has a major selling point on their pricing. I'm pretty sure they'll avoid having to hike prices if they can.
35. OldWarrior632 (Posts: 14; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
Indeed, Sprint comitted to buying a very large number of iPhones from Apple, whether they sold them or not. (Take or Pay) in order to get the Iphone. If you look at Sprint's history, they have not shown a profit in over 5 years (as far as my research can go back) and in 2014, they are only estimated to even break even in Q3, followed by a -$0.13 in Q4. Sprint may have a lot of customers, but are not anyone's road to success. Verizon will be the live or die for WP phones, and the store I bought my 928 from last week had never even seen one until mine came in. Grim news.
18. TheBitterrTruth (unregistered)
It will definitely take time to surpass android, even iOS but I think they can at least gain a good share in OS industry.
They should increase their apps.
50. selena1000 (Posts: 84; Member since: 14 Mar 2013)
well the true reason why android is huge is because its on almost every phone in market form makers like Samsung and HTC to local chinese makers. thats why it has a high market share
53. sgodsell (Posts: 3633; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
The real problem is Microsoft controls too much of the WP OS and hardware. So OEMS can't deviate to much from Microsoft's controlled hw specs. Also how can any one company compete with android, especially since android is open to anyone. So any OEM can take android, modify it, and breath new innovation into it. Not to mention Linux supports a multitude of different CPUs.
54. gd761 (Posts: 136; Member since: 18 Sep 2012)
As for Microsoft controlling the Hardware Specs, you are right to a point. You can NOT put Less than what Microsoft says that they Want for their WP OS, but you can Exceed Microsoft's Min Specs. Most Companies want to just use what they can get the Most Profit from. So if they use an outdated CPU, then they Will do that. If they want to use sub par Memory, then they Will do that as well.
So with Microsoft telling the Manufacturers what the Min Specs they can use, is NOT a bad thing for the Customers at all. It just effects the Profits of the Manufacturers. It only effects them in the short term, because they will be buying MORE of the Higher Spec Parts for the Phones which drives down the cost which in turn drives up the profit.
3. ArtSim98 (Posts: 3535; Member since: 21 Dec 2012)
Very good article! I just so agree with this. Microsoft is so close to a perfect OS, but for some reason they just don't put enough effort in it. And that's sad because I really love WP and Nokia. Microsoft just needs a little kick to it's butt so the whole WP ecosystem would go up like a rocket!
10. ZeroCide (Posts: 773; Member since: 09 Jan 2013)
I argree its almost perfect. Almost being the key word. Microsoft needs to step up a bit and finish the lagging touches. If WP is Bulit on the Windows platform it has GREAT potential both as an OS and an ecosystem. Other developers besides Nokia should step up their game and make better phones. I hope BLUE brings the OS to full capabilites.
47. icyrock1 (Posts: 307; Member since: 25 Mar 2013)
Tbh, that's a problem that WP is facing. It seems to be that Nokia is the only one trying when it comes to new hardware. Microsoft needs to do something to get more people making handsets for the platform. HTC half heartedly tried with the 8X.
4. _Bone_ (Posts: 2154; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
For the sake of a healthy in-OS rivalry which is always good for the end-user, Nokia needs strong competition. It's pretty good how HTC, LG and Samsung are pushing each others on the Android front with Sony, Huawei and others remind them not to be lazy, someone needs to pressurize Nokia too.
5. madpiyal (Posts: 108; Member since: 11 Feb 2013)
It seems like in US Windows Phone is not promoted and supported as in Asia. Whatever the current situation of Windows phone may be its nice to have another OS available. Even though I am yet to own a Windows Phone, I think like Mr John my next phone will be one( though John is waiting for a change). I always like when something is put together well. In this case the superb build quality of Nokia and a polished OS.
7. tusshharish (Posts: 342; Member since: 23 Oct 2012)
microsoft should devolop wp more and should add support of newest hardware............also app devolopers should give attention towards wp........
8. tacarat (Posts: 770; Member since: 22 Apr 2013)
It's not quite their fault. Only 40 countries use CDMA. You have to have a "world phone" with a GSM chip to use their phones everywhere else. That will limit the sales potential of a CDMA only phone and make a more specialized phone more expensive.
Can't do much about the perception of old hardware for the windows phone. There are plenty of people buying high end phones for bragging rights rather than actual use. Have you considered an android phone with a W8 launcher?
9. sybersushi1 (Posts: 8; Member since: 29 May 2013)
I love Wp 8 so much!I hope i will sell my Samsung galaxy SIII and buy Nokia Lumia 925!
MICROSOFT,NOKIA,WORLD wake up!
11. ZeroCide (Posts: 773; Member since: 09 Jan 2013)
Same here. I use both Android and WP, but i love the buttery slickness, flow and the fast app/game switching in WP and I only use 7.8. I can't wait to get a WP8 / WPBLUE device once my carrier has one.
AGREE!!! "MICROSOFT,NOKIA,WORLD wake up!" I'll add SPRINT to that!!!!!
12. scorpeyun (Posts: 26; Member since: 18 May 2012)
Very good article and hits all the right points! Being an IT admin and I've always been a Microsoft fan. I've been waiting for sprint to offer a windows phone for some time now but they are dragging there feet in the mud. If you want to keep you customers happy sprint at least provide them with all the options when it comes down to platform, not just what you think customers want. I use a Nokia 920 for my work phone from at&t because the option wasn't available with sprint.
15. cornerofthemoon (Posts: 590; Member since: 20 Apr 2010)
I'd hate to think what shape the WP platform would be in now if it weren't for Nokia....
17. TheBitterrTruth (unregistered)
Windows phones = Nokia !
25. ZeroCide (Posts: 773; Member since: 09 Jan 2013)
That shouldn't be the case. All the other manufacturers should step up and make flagship phones in the WP platform. Right now Samsung and HTC are the only others that have made WP handsets. Recently Huawei has gotten into the game. All the other manufactuers like Sony, LG, Sharp, ZTE, and others need to step up.
19. papss (unregistered)
Lol something must be terribly wrong..OMG John..could you be more dramatic? How about it being more about people not wanting change or are heavily invested in their platform? Sprint? Are they even a competitive carrier anymore? Tmob gets more phones then they do.
HTC is in piss poor shape themselves, SS is way more focused on where the user base is and their own OS. Should there be more? Absolutely. Is there something terribly wrong? I'd have to say not.
20. DFranch (Posts: 206; Member since: 20 Apr 2012)
It seems Sprint is the one with the issue. AT&T, Verizon and soon T-mobile all have high end WP phones. It doesn't seem fair to blame anybody but Sprint for this one.
24. roldefol (Posts: 4242; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
They weren't always though. They had the EVO, the Nexus S, the EVO 3D long before Verizon had anything comparable. And at least they carried a nice qwerty like the Arrive. Since they sold their soul for the iPhone, it's like they lost their mojo.
22. wgaurav (Posts: 22; Member since: 17 Dec 2010)
They need to make the OS less complex, And basic thinks like 'active' notification bar is a must. One of the huge drawback I think is integration with Google services ( I know MSFT has competing services). And most important of all, the way bring in some proactive innovation, not a reactive.
I used Lumia 900 and Nokia support had been awesome its MSFT's time to step up.
27. Muzhhur (Posts: 260; Member since: 14 Sep 2012)
Thats is just stats, and its ok if Android rule the sp market, I think everyone must be happy despite of what OS have
28. gd761 (Posts: 136; Member since: 18 Sep 2012)
Unfortunately Neither HTC or SAMSUNG Will be Bringing Anything Worth While to Sprint at least the Phones that have been Announced so far.
Windows Phone also Needs to Support 1080P Spec as well.
Sprint has Almost Always Been the Redheaded Orphaned Stepchild that has to get Ignored by Everyone!
Hopefully If and When the SoftBank Deal goes through and Sprint Starts switching over from CDMA to TD-LTE, then We Might be able to Get Some Nice Phones Eventually Coming to Sprint.
The TD-LTE Standard is also Used Everywhere outside of the US, so that Might make it a LOT Easier for the Manufacturers to Start Bringing High Quality High End Phones to Sprint Before Everyone Else for a change.
I have had My HTC Arrive since the day before it was Available to the Masses due to the Dealers Screw-up. My Benefit!
One of the things that I Really Want on My Next Phone besides an Extended Battery is a Physical QWERTY Keyboard like My HTC Arrive has. I do a LOT Of Typing Every Day from My Phone and Need to Have the Keyboard Instead of Typing on a Smooth Surface and having a Lot of Typo's in the LOTS of Letters and Posts that I Type on My Phone.
I know that there Are a LOT of People that Also Think and Feel the Same way as I Do about Wanting to Upgrade to Windows Phone 8 on Sprint, but Don't See Any Real Worth While Options Anytime in the Foreseeable Future here on Sprint.
I know that there Are going to Be People that Will Tell Me to Just Leave Sprint and Get a Windows Phone 8 Phone from Another Carrier that has Something Worthwhile that I Could Consider Upgrading to. I have Been told that a LOT in the Past, but this is to the People that Will try to tell me the same thing again. I AM NOT AND WILL NOT LEAVE SPRINT JUST TO GET A PHONE THAT THE OTHER CARRIERS HAVE THAT IS WAY BETTER THAN WHAT SPRINT HAS AND WILL BE GETTING! So, Don't Bother trying to tell Me that again.
56. OldWarrior632 (Posts: 14; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
My 928 supports 1080p phoyography as well as 1080p Video, even in Panoramic mode.
29. Edmund (Posts: 656; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
Sadly it's Microsoft who are dragging their feet on this one.
30. jroc74 (Posts: 6005; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
I also started with Win Mo in 2008 or 2009. I left Win Mo in 2010 for Android like soooo many other ppl...and havent looked back.
One issue is history. I used an iPhone at work, co worker had one in 2009...and I almost left Verizon to go to AT&T. It was miles better than my Omnia 1. (Sorry but the Samsung Omnia 1 was a joke overall....remember I'm talking about Win Mo here...)
Somehow the HTC HD2 got overlooked on Win Mo by some ppl. If I had got that...I might be using WP right now. I was so fed up with my Omnia 1 and Win Mo....I basically ran to Android....and I almost ran to the iPhone.
One issue is.....the competition is just good, better now than years ago. If WP had launched in 2008, 2009 or early 2010...might be a different story. Not too many ppl have a reason to switch and new users...I dont know....WP just isnt attracting ppl for some reason.
31. gd761 (Posts: 136; Member since: 18 Sep 2012)
It's Not Just Microsoft who is Dragging their feet. It's Also Sprint who is Dragging their Feet and Only doing Just Enough to seem that they are trying. But by bringing only Both Mid-End and Low-End Devices is WORSE than Doing Nothing at all.
32. Dro (Posts: 27; Member since: 23 Dec 2009)
Why would other OEM's seriously invest in Windows phone over Android? Look at it this way. Android is free for them, Windows Phone is not and at the same time, there's no secret that Microsoft is in bed with Nokia and clearly Nokia gives Nokia privileges that the other OEM's don't get (or so it seems). This is why I love Google. They bought Motorola and they did a good job to bury the fears that they were not gonna alienate their precious OEM partners. Even if they give Motorola special privileges, its not that obvious like it is between Microsoft & Nokia. To be honest, they almost seem like one company. So seriously, why should HTC, Samsung, LG, Motorola, Sony etc shell out cash to purchase Microsoft's os without any real viable way to differentiate themselves apart from hardware?
37. OldWarrior632 (Posts: 14; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
If you look hard at the cross licensing arrangements, almost all makers have to pay Nokia anywhere from ~$5 to ~$20/ phone for IP. Add to that, that just about everyone has to pay one or 2 others for IP, nothing is free. Someone is either paying ARM or Intel for IP. Samsung has to pay Google. Nokia has to pay MSFT for licenses, and has no exclusivity. MSFT was working closely with HTC to get HTC to produce a WP Phone, HTC's Microphone supplier had to switch to lower grade Mic's due to IP issues(Nokia owned the patent on the high grade Mic). Look at the Apple/Samsung court wars around the world. Everyone is paying someone, and in the end, the consumer eats it all anyway.
33. gd761 (Posts: 136; Member since: 18 Sep 2012)
They All Are doing just that, but Just Not for Sprint. They All Have Windows Phone 8 Phones on All of the Other Carriers Paid and Some of the Prepaid Carriers as well.
34. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
Dro... HTC suffering and its not because of WP. So don't be so jolly about Google and Android. Even Motorola suffering right now. Its good for Nokia these OEMs not investing in WP. Gives Nokia the leverage to climb to the top as the number #1 WP OEM. By the way, Tizen just leaked. Something to think about your lovely Google.
36. gd761 (Posts: 136; Member since: 18 Sep 2012)
Tizen for Samsung is One of the reasons why Samsung is NOT Putting hardly Any Effort behind Windows Phone 8.
38. OldWarrior632 (Posts: 14; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
Tizen is the Meeko OS that Nokia was working on before switching completely to WP(and Asha for low end phones). Nokia made a rather large mistake in selling it for less than they had invested in R&D on it. They (IMO) should have kept at least some rights to it in case someone makes it viable. Nokia was burning cash like crazy at the time though by having like 4-5 OS's competing for R&D money. Samsung wants to develop Tizen so that they can stop paying Google for Android. With Samsung's massive business, they might well turn Tizen into a new Ecosystem.
@lubba Nokia right now is selling more than 80% of all windows phones. It would actually be to their advantage to have others selling WP Phones to encourage App Writers.
39. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
Oldwarrior... You I've always scratched my head about developers. I would they would write for a smaller ecosystem and get better recognition and better sales. How do they sell anything in a sea of >300,000 apps? Anyway, you maybe right.
40. ckoch125 (Posts: 192; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
Carrier exclusives are the reason. All the high end phones should be available at the same time
41. cameogt (Posts: 88; Member since: 18 Oct 2012)
in my country, no WP support here from the carriers for flagship. you can see Lumia 720, 620 offerings. Android flagships (S4, One, Optimus G, Xperia Z) even iPhone5 are in the postpaid plan options, but no 920 in-sight. not sure wether Nokia nor MS not marketing enough but one thing sure is, they are left behind by Android.
57. OldWarrior632 (Posts: 14; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
The 925 is the Nokia Flagship phone for World Distribution. The 920 was an experiment on only AT&T. The 928 is now the US Verizon offering, and Sprint is not interested in either the 920 or 928 until they burn through the massive iPhone contract they have to sell.
Sprint is on Life Support, have not had a profitable Q in over 5 years and not expected to have one ubtil 2015 at the earliest.
42. raunak (Posts: 507; Member since: 12 Oct 2011)
I simply don't know what innovations you're talking about. The only innovations I've seen in a while are Google Now and PureView, other than that, everyone is just adding new hardware.
Apple and Google both release new versions of their OS once a year, which is what MS is doing. Only thing that bugs me is that why the hell MS did not add support for FHD screens and quad cores last year with WP8, seeing as Nexus 4 and Butterfly launched around the same time as 920.
43. raunak (Posts: 507; Member since: 12 Oct 2011)
That and the carrier relationships need to be sorted out.
44. Dro (Posts: 27; Member since: 23 Dec 2009)
@Lubba, Nokia doing well is not gonna make Windows phone grow. The demand for windows phone alone would not increase with just Nokia offerings so it will serve Nokia well to have competition. The more OEM's focusing on Windows phone, the more attention it's gonna get, more people would be tempted to buy and then Nokia can then try to leverage. What's the use climbing to the top of a platform that's not growing? If it doesn't grow it doesn't matter if Nokia is on top, they're still gonna find it hard to make any profit. I wouldn't worry about Motorola, pretty soon they're gonna be at it again. You should wait until they release their first phone under Google then you can judge. Google couldn't of possibly grown as much as it did without Samsung but even if Samsung abandon Android, which is highly unlikely anytime soon, Google now have their own OEM so that would be the perfect opportunity for them to start running Motorola as a Google company as opposed to separately.
46. johnreagan (Posts: 1; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
Hello, John V.
I also wrote a similar article myself on my site, BoredBrains dot net. Got some flack on the LinkedIn groups for it as well. Oh, according to the YouTube post MS did, a Nokia 521 is a better buy than a Samsung Galaxy S4. Sad.
48. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
I have no problems with my Lumia 920 besides for the dust in the ffc. For now I can live with it. Everything runs smooth and graphics are beautiful to look at. You can sit and complain all you want about no quad core and 1080p but at the end of they its remains a beautiful slick device.
58. OldWarrior632 (Posts: 14; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
On my 928 I went to Camera/video settings,.and in the Video Mode, it gave me a choice of 720 or 1080p Video Recording. You might see it on the 920 as well.
49. breathlesstao (unregistered)
Kind of makes me wonder when the people of the US will discover the fact that they can buy phones unlocked and off-contract at any number of places. Instead of waiting for carriers and whining when they don't pick up the model they want and switching to another even they have to pay a buttload of money...
51. gd761 (Posts: 136; Member since: 18 Sep 2012)
You are Correct about that, But something that Everyone also Forgets are the Cross Licensing Deals that All of the OS's have with o0ne another. Whenever you buy Any Phone, More than One OS "Apple, Google, and Microsoft" get paid. If you but an iPhone, Both Apple and Microsoft get paid. If you buy any Android Phone, Both Google and Microsoft get paid. And when you buy Anything with Microsoft on it, Either Apple or Google get Paid.
They All have their Hands out whenever ANY Phone is Bought by the Customers. That's Just a Cold Hard Fact that Nobody has been also talking about.
Even so, the Whole Issue is Why Is It Taking So Long To Bring Any High Quality High End Windows Phone 8 Phones to Sprint?!
It's Not Mostly on the Part of Microsoft. The Majority of the Blame goes Directly to SPRINT!
Sprint has 2 Windows Phone 8 Phones Scheduled to be Released within the next few Weeks if Not, then the next few Months. They Are a Mid-End Samsung and a Low-End HTC. WTF is Sprint thinking with getting the Low-End HTC?! Obviously they are Not thinking About Wanting to Attract Customers Attention With at very least, Good Quality High-End Windows Phone 8 Smartphones.
Get Your Head OUT OF THE SAND! Wake the Heck Up and Get Into the Game and Start Contacting the Carriers and Requesting HIGH QUALITY HIGH-END WINDOWS PHONE 8 SMARTPHONES!!!
You have the iPhone and a whole bunch of Android Phones, but How Many Windows Phone 8 Phones do You have in Your Current Lineup Compared with the Number of Windows Phone 8 Phones that EVERYONE ELSE HAS?!
52. charms55 (Posts: 41; Member since: 08 Nov 2011)
Placing all the blame with Microsoft or Nokia is pointless. Carriers are in the unique position of controlling how they stock their shelves and to that end what platforms they embrace.
I would say now that every carrier for the most part has an iPhone, and the various flavors of Android allow complete customization, they are complacent and lazy. Blame the locked in system, rules on using unlocked devices, and simply demographics.
We also know that carriers are wanting to empty their shelves of last year's stock and older models before sliding out the new. Remember, Windows Phones are heavily subsidized by the carriers.
They only have to sell 1 iPhone at a time, multiple memory configs. Buyers beware on the Android offerings, as handsets may be stuck with various flavors and not get the newest goodness, like WP7.x phones that are still on offer.
Now, even with a generous pinch of salt, there are recently many reports of data indicating that the WP8 adoption is growing significantly and faster than other platforms. Add to that changes in the eco system (Windows 8 and Xbox) that are coming, the platform is in a good position to make gains in 2013 Q3 & 4.
55. OldWarrior632 (Posts: 14; Member since: 03 Jun 2013)
At my local Verizon store, they had never seen a 928 until I orderd mine last Wednesday . They tried to steer me to an 822 or any brand except Nokia but I was insistant. Once they saw the phone, they were VERY impressed though.
Sprint has it's own problems, they have not had a profitable quarter in many years, and are not expected to in 2014.
59. Scorpion (Posts: 103; Member since: 28 Apr 2012)
Microsoft and carriers aren't innovative in this. The biggest advantage of WP8 is integration with WIN8. So... Bundles! Buy a laptop get a smartphone. Buy a smartphone get a laptop at 50% discount. Same for the WIN RT tablets which no one buys. It's a shame because the platform is elegant and fast.
In Israel they offer an XBOX 360 if you buy a WP8. I can buy both at the same money privately, but it's a start: