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Can the iPad survive the Windows 8 wave, or will history repeat for Apple?

0. phoneArena 30 Aug 2012, 16:11 posted on

Much like CES and MWC have become parades for new Android devices, IFA has been the show for new Windows 8 tablets, and tablet/laptop hybrids. And, the question must be asked: With the wave of Windows 8 about to crest, can the iPad survive?

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:16 23

1. OptimusOne (Posts: 694; Member since: 22 May 2012)


nice article

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:21 22

3. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


I second this. Michael H. does an excellent job of accurately stating the truth with no bias turned towards any specific company whatsoever.
Kudos for great writing!

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 01:38 3

54. TheLibertine (Posts: 484; Member since: 15 Jan 2012)


Aw yeah. He just put it simple: iOS' biggest threat is not Android - nor is it treated in any way, as even ten percent market share are enough for it to comfortably live on and continue its quest to make "the best products in the world for t3h great profit". Apple always has been the alternative to Microsoft and it can continue to be on other markets as well.

And Android's biggest threat is not iOS. How could it, Android came after iOS and slowly took away market share - the problem is, especially on the tablet market, it may have grown to slowly (iPad still has 69% - this is a point where I have to critique Phonearena and Michael H. - the Phonearena articles often do not share the facts clearly stated in other PA articles. This one clearly states the number as 69% just six days ago -http://www.phonearena.com/news/API-Apple-iPad-demand-to-raise-tablet-shipments-this-year-over-the-100-million-mark_id33640) to became "mainstream" - in fact, twenty percent (the rest is Kindle Fire and Windows 7) is not much for a company that heavily relies on dominating market share.

Both Androids and iOS' biggest enemy is Windows 8 and it will most likely hit both of them in the face - the most-used OS in the world is clearly Windows 7, with 90 percent market share. (Mac OS and iOS combined have around eight:http://www.villeaho.com/2012/04/17/why-windows-8-matters-and-why-android-will-eventually-just-fade-away/) And every rational person would choose Windows 8 over Android, Apple-fans will stay Apple-Fans and Android fans Android fans. No question, Windows 8 will dominate - the world just Is not ready yet for an Android/iOS based world. The world, nine tents of it, is Windows. But who will survive? My guess is: Android will find the same niche as Linux, Apple will continue being Apple (dominate high-price market range, like it allready does: most PCs over 1000 dollars are Macs, most mobile phones over 500 dollars iPhones) and Microsoft the new "mainstream" as the iPad is now on the mobile PC market.

Windows just blows away both Android and iOS - it is very open and flexible like the first one, and mature and fluid like the second one. The world will soon remember how great it just is and was - no secret that Jobs admired Gates in secret.
Ah, also should be noted that Microsoft and Google are hating' each other more than most people do hate the iPhone - they will go against each other as their goal is market share, not profit unlike Apple.

Anyway, great and important article.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 03:20 2

60. PhoneLuver (Posts: 467; Member since: 05 Jul 2010)


I feel that IOS as well as Android were amazing, but then stagnated somehow! They've added tons of tweaks, but no real new features over the years!

RIM and Nokia are just some examples of very profitable companies with great software that rested on their laurels and after nearly collapsing as a result, have had to reinvent themselves.

Windows 8 is a game changer! Let's hope that they can meet the challenge!

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 10:22 3

70. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2677; Member since: 26 May 2011)


The article that you reference about the iPad market share is talking about a quarterly report of market share based on shipments. I'm talking about market share counted on overall install base, not just a 3 month slice.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:49 16

11. The_Godfather (Posts: 158; Member since: 26 Apr 2012)


Bottom line is no one wants to see or hold an old device again and again with the same UI.....I am more than sure that WIn 8 tablet would be a big hit in the market.

If you look at large Enterprises they had been waiting for something like this why because it is a Windows platform and which is the best in the world.

1. Mate you want to play games -----> These tablets have got the power
2. You want to do Office work (not just surfing or watching videos) ---> Win 8 tablet would enable you to do whatever you have been doing on your computer
3. You want to transfer data from USB ----> You get USB ports 2. & 3.
4. How about presentation -----> You get HDMI
5. Can we capture the screen ----> Go for Samsung ATIV, Asus, Toshiba, Sony or Surface they all have different ways of capturing screen - shots
6. Can we sync? -----> No doubt about that
7. Applications -------> Everything from PC to tablet

Apple iPad was a big hit in the market why because at that time Android and Windows platforms (for tablets) were not fully ready and robust. But now you have the best platforms out there and choices as well.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 19:45

32. MeoCao (unregistered)


Windows 8 is very heavy so Windows 8 tablets can have only limited success and they will compete with laptops.

RT is inferior to both Android and iOS so I don't think it will be successful but it can survive as distant 3rd in tablets.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 19:55 2

34. The_Godfather (Posts: 158; Member since: 26 Apr 2012)


If people won't buy a Windows 8 tablet because it weigh around 1.2 KG (including those keyboards n stuff) then I am speechless mate.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 20:44

38. MeoCao (unregistered)


That's exactly my point, every W8 tablet has a keyboard and they are in fact a kind of laptop. They are too heavy to be used comfortably as a tablet.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 00:46 4

48. -box- (Posts: 3820; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


W8 tabs have the keyboards as optional extras. If you had a keyboard for an ipad (and a case to carry it and attach it to) it would add weight and bulk.
Windows 8 and RT will both be much more capable than ios, and as long as RT catches up to Android in tablet apps, it'll do just fine.
I myself will spend the extra for a full Windows8 tab

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 02:40

57. MeoCao (unregistered)


Don't you notice that W8 Surface is much thicker and heavier than RT Surface?

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 00:53 2

50. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


u probably use pc for casual stuff thats why u say it it will be treat for those who really use pc for many stuff for any weight and price

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 00:56

52. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


why why why some one would compare a full windows OS to mearlly a moblie OS like IOS and android its just not camparable please stop it want to compare then try MACOS and Linux since they are full tablets dont meant anything with android but full linux/ubunto would have been better

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 02:42

58. MeoCao (unregistered)


That's my point, W8 will compete with laptops and not Android or iOS. RT will.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 04:27

62. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


:\ RT is not completly dull it can still run more then half of pc softwares not the heaviest but average if thats true then it still tops them both

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:18 14

2. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


Windows 8 is so much powerful than iOS, even with the RT version. iOS is meant to be mainly for media consumption, and not for productivity. Also, I admit, it does it well. However, Android and Windows 8 both slaughter iOS in business and do well in media consumption. Windows is a very well known name, as well.
I expect Windows and Android to destroy anything else in the tablet market, as Windows converts itself to a mobile OS with the power of a desktop, and as Android converts itself to have the power of a desktop in a mobile OS.
Gentlemen, we have a very interesting couple of months approaching.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:46 9

10. Veigald (Posts: 239; Member since: 13 Jan 2012)


In my view it is Android who will be the big loser here. Apple has the premium brand and quality going for it, and Windows the productivity of the Office suite and ubiquity in both business and consumer domains. What does Android have to compete with those?

With iPad mini and a slew of Win8 tablets, my guess is that within one year Android is at low single digit tablet market share.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:08 7

14. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


You raise a valid point! With this in mind, Android is still the number one selling smartphone OS and Linux is still gaining major ground in the PC market. This could indeed happen with Android tablets if Android doesn't start evolving into another distro of Linux pretty soon, but I think Android will always be a powerful and valuable player in the smartphone market.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:24 3

21. 12Danny123 (Posts: 86; Member since: 18 Aug 2012)


Well in tablets. It's a different story. But I do want windows 8 and android to dominate and over take iOS fast. Apple can rot in hell for what they done to carriers, people ,economy, comsumers, ms and google. Android and wp8 shall crush iOS 6 to the ground

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:29 2

22. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


Yep! Exactly. I love Microsoft and Google. Microsoft makes the best desktop OS because of simplicity and software compatibility (and is actually reasonable about their patents, unlike Apple) and Google makes awesome mobile devices. I hope they both succeed and Apple either steps up their game (using innovation instead of litigation) or gets crushed by MS and the Goog.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 00:25

46. MeoCao (unregistered)


I love Google but not MS. MS has been abusing its monopoly of PC market for years. Thankfully we have Linux and open source movement to break the stranglehold of MS.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 01:00 1

53. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


but windows is many times more productive and efficient then linux allthough linux is open source it is only developer friendly not user friendly

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 02:43 1

59. MeoCao (unregistered)


Linux is much more efficient, but it's not supported by a strong ecosystem.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 04:42 1

64. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


u call it efficient
-even installation is messy for most linux based softwares unlike windows
-Simple copy paste for some files is not straight forward
-need to learn the coomands or know half of them for just simple use
-lets go to C programming ever compiled a code in win and linux same time wins got better options linux only give hardware access for free.
-i used linux like 1 month and i was like who the hell says its better the Win i cant do simply things in simple way like in windows
* only happy linux users are profetional developers NOT simple users

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 06:03

66. MeoCao (unregistered)


Efficient and convenient are 2 different things.

Linux for PC is not supported enough so it's difficult to use but thank to Linux the cost of Windows is not over the roof and Windows is updated more often.

posted on 02 Sep 2012, 02:10

75. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


lol who uses geniune windows :P

posted on 01 Sep 2012, 18:13

73. pikapowerize (banned) (Posts: 1869; Member since: 03 May 2012)


but i think it will change to win8.. the OS isnt a friendly to a mouse navigator unlike its past version...

i think that is microsoft biggest mistake now!!!

posted on 02 Sep 2012, 02:12

76. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


welll u didnt have much knowledge about win8 it has two UI for tablets and for PC which is identical to win7 i heard it over the news its not a mistake its more option now

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 04:41

63. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


Microsoft used to be a patent troll, but their patents are actually pretty valid and they don't troll HARDLY as much as Apple.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 06:12

67. MeoCao (unregistered)


MS is never under threat like Apple is now that's why it is not as aggressive. But everytime anything big came out it was stifled by MS like Netscape. If were not for FireFox and Chrome we may still use that crappy IE5-6 now.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:23 3

4. krimHD (Posts: 106; Member since: 23 May 2012)


windows 8 is surely the future brought back in time... lol

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:25 1

5. mas11 (Posts: 1030; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)


iPad will remain on top because it's the "cool" thing to own

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:39 13

8. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2677; Member since: 26 May 2011)


It's cool to own a MacBook, but those never made it to the top. It's cool to own a Porche, but those will never be on the top of market share.

More often than not "cool" is inversely related to market share.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 20:53 1

39. MeoCao (unregistered)


I think Apple are clever to put iPad price at reasonable level. The profit margin of iPad is much smaller than iPhone and that makes it very difficult for other tablets.

I think Google is very smart too by temporarily avoiding competing directly with iPad and gaining market share with N7.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 23:14

44. mas11 (Posts: 1030; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)


MacBooks start at about $1200 the iPad starts at $500, it's much easier to drop $500 on a device than $1200. I tried to convince one of my friends to save $300 and get a Nexus 7 instead of an iPad, but he didn't want to. As much as I want to see Surface become the #1 tablet, just don't see it happening.

Btw there are Android phones that you can get for half the price of the 4S, such as the Galaxy Nexus and the DROID RAZR, yet the iPhone still outsells both of them by a large margin.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 03:50

61. MeoCao (unregistered)


The main selling point of iPhone over Android was responsiveness and reliablity, but now Android has caught up with iOS in that department. Android is now the top OS and not iOS.

If new iPhone keeps old price point I think we will see rapid decline of iPhone market share.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:18

18. ogy_dogy (Posts: 453; Member since: 29 Jun 2012)


Well i think you might be mistaken there, everyone owns an ipad, and its not cool to have what everyone has, so i feel that the ms Surface will be much cooler than the ipad.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 19:09 1

27. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2677; Member since: 26 May 2011)


When the iPad was the only choice "everyone" had one. The share has been shifting drastically. The Surface may be cooler at launch (or maybe the iPad Mini), but in the long run, Windows is never the cool choice.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 02:11 1

55. ogy_dogy (Posts: 453; Member since: 29 Jun 2012)


Well this might be in the usa, but im from europe (Croatia) and from a personal experience id say far more people prefer a windows pc to an apple pc, and win 8 will just build on that. Besides coolness is a subjective term, for example i find my lumia far cooler than an iphone....

posted on 01 Sep 2012, 16:59

72. gaby1451 (Posts: 113; Member since: 30 Mar 2011)


Speaking of iPad Mini Michael I'm curious, how would you characterize the release of such a device without conceding to the idea that Apple does indeed care about market share and not just profit margins? I mean, if Apple wasn't that concerned about market share it wouldn't release a smaller tablet that directly competes with the current crop of 7 inchers flooding the market, no? Yes in the end Apple will always care more about profits, but doesnt the fact that it is releasing such a device suggest it isn't blind to where the money can be made and concurrently, where the market share can be gained?

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 00:50

49. -box- (Posts: 3820; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


I don't know anyone who thinks apple products are cool anymore. The lost their cachet around 2009 at the latest, especially when all the factory horror stories started being spread

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 04:45

65. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


u sound like a "SHOWOFF"

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:29 8

6. CX3NT3_713 (Posts: 1948; Member since: 18 Apr 2011)


The iPad looks and feels boring , now days....

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:33 2

7. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)


Only thing Constant in world is "CHANGE". Even Apple will have to continuously keep changing and mending it's ways to align with market requirements and in any market more the number of players better it is. At least this prevents any company going into an extended hangover of previous success unless it is prepared to go RIM's way ...

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 16:46 1

9. Ueliton (Posts: 34; Member since: 29 Aug 2012)


Well, I think that there is room for everybody. I really hope iPads continue on the market, not because I care about Apple (f**k Apple), but because it is better for us, consumers, to have choices.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 17:24 1

12. downphoenix (Posts: 2357; Member since: 19 Jun 2010)


I vote for apple doesn't care.

I do see them still releasing the Ipad Mini, but it wont be competitive spec wise to similar priced tablets, Apple will still be makign sure they get a minimum of 30% profit off the cost to develop the tablet, but it will more likely be in the 40-50% range, I'll honestly be surprised if its anything better spec wise than being a smaller Ipad 2 without the rear camera.

Apple prefers profits over marketshare, every time. The strategies that MS and Google take are too risky and costly, Apple keeping its tightly integrated system that ensures brand loyalty which means the ability to make more off a similar speced product than most companies.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 17:58 5

13. rassouli5 (Posts: 51; Member since: 16 Aug 2012)


Microsoft will crush both Apple and Android. They're no match for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:14 6

16. 12Danny123 (Posts: 86; Member since: 18 Aug 2012)


Well to be honest for android in mobile phones. It's a different. But I do think it'll eat into android's and mostly ios's market share. Also ios is so limited. Even limited than wp8.
I rank it like this based on limitations.

1) Android 4.1 -
2) windows phone 8-
3) IOS 6

Why like this?
Becuase wp8 has lifted tones of limitations. And it's much much more mature and it can match android in specs. And in hardware looks and iOS in usability and simplicity . For example samaung has launched the Samsung ativ S. incredibly beautiful device by the way. It's using brushed aluminum with the note/s3/s2 style hardware. Compared to the cheap plastic Samsung makes for android. Pity though. iOS has a lot of limitations. No micro SD storage, limited multitasking and a lot more.

I'm a ms fanboy so I'm fine :-)

posted on 02 Sep 2012, 02:16

77. haseebzahid (Posts: 1831; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


best thing MS is listening to consumers thats why they lifted many limitation they put in wp7 but apple never care about users . MS has offical web for sugestion and voting so they can have more idea of demands and i seen many of those items sugested their were implemented when their votes got too high

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:10 3

15. gallitoking (Posts: 4690; Member since: 17 May 2011)


the same were said about windows phone and nothing happen.. so until I see it I will believe it

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:16 8

17. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


I didn't even read your comment before thumbing it down.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:18 1

19. 12Danny123 (Posts: 86; Member since: 18 Aug 2012)


Well the difference between windows 8 and wp is significant. So you can't say Anything about win 8 based on wp

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 19:10 7

28. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2677; Member since: 26 May 2011)


The big difference here is that Windows Phone had no base to build on. Windows 8 is going to be pulling from the base of millions and millions of Windows PC users.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 22:44

42. stealthd (Posts: 969; Member since: 12 Jun 2011)


The reaction from Windows PC users is they hate Windows 8. People are saying Windows 7 is going to be the next Windows XP in enterprise because no one wants to move to 8. And Windows RT is NOTHING like current Windows, there's really no connection between the two to draw anyone in.

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 23:00 2

43. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2677; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Only the most hardcore fans hate Windows 8, because they are the only ones that have actually used Windows 8. I don't care what anyone says if they haven't used it yet. It's different, but it's still nice, and it would obviously work very well on a tablet or hybrid device.

Enterprise may not like Windows 8, but tablets are becoming more and more necessary for enterprise, and the choice would still be Windows over Android or iOS, even if you don't like the new Start screen, because you don't have to develop anything new, you can just keep using your same software.

posted on 31 Aug 2012, 00:55

51. -box- (Posts: 3820; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)


Agreed.

And for the stubborn whiners, there's always "Desktop Mode". Personally I'm keeping my desktop on 7 U64 but I'll get a Win8 tablet and an AIO since it was designed so well for touch. I use 8 RTM/CP on a separate partition, and while it's good I'm going to wait for more drivers to be out before converting since I need it for work

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:21

20. ogy_dogy (Posts: 453; Member since: 29 Jun 2012)


I think it will be the pc market all over again in a few years... ipads will be rare and everyone will want them... and then theyll go out and buy a Windows 8 tab couse its the sensible thing to do. Everyone thinks highly of the iphone but buys androids... its just a matter of fact. and so is that apple is a nieche player and due to their high margins they dont really care about high marketshare...

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:30 1

23. technut (Posts: 52; Member since: 03 Aug 2012)


I really don't see the limited rt version as a threat, but windows 8 pro... Massive threat!

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 18:37 1

24. 12Danny123 (Posts: 86; Member since: 18 Aug 2012)


Well rt will fit students and there are tones of kids who need office for school and they most likely pick the rt tablet instead. Of the iPad. Not a massive threat but more of just a student threat

posted on 30 Aug 2012, 20:19

36. pikapowerize (banned) (Posts: 1869; Member since: 03 May 2012)


well iPad's ecosystem is already one of the best when it comes to student.. i've read before that apple is really making an effort for student...so everything the students need is available in iPad... and i've read one blogger that apple is giving away iPad2 to medical students in US for free..

my sister also need an iPad coz its really a need in her studies (also a medical student) but since my parents cant afford her to buy one she just bought an android phone coz she thinks android and iPhone are just the same..but she will might recieve an iPad now..

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