Apple's tax rate may be just 9.8%
0. phoneArena 30 Apr 2012, 21:39 posted on
In case you're new to the world of global businesses and shady corporate practices, it is quite common practice for global corporations to use every tax loophole on the books in order to minimize what it needs to pay...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)
Well, I am sure all companies of Apple's size do this. Today's business are more than willing to export jobs overseas, or avoid paying taxes, or come out with the same phone, year after year after year. At some point no one will be able to afford a smartphone, or they will be over drawing on credit cards or savings or other monetary sources to pay for a luxury item.....nevermind it is already happening.
19. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
It's not about making products affordable...wow where have you been. Apple, and other companies pay no pensions, health care, and low wages. Your jobs are being sent over seas, and one persons wage in America can fund 20 or more people do the math.
Apple, and other companies makes huge profits off the back of free low wages, and you in America don't see any benefit of labor savings through those lowered wages. iPhone cost 55.00 to make or there abouts.
Wow Americans are so duped, and misinformed!
These companies make products and figure out how to use loop holes, and relocation of headquarters to avoid paying taxes. Then they get duped misinformed idiots to cheer for them, while they cause you to pay more in taxes as you cheer them on.
These companies push the economy to the brink of failure, and then use inflation as a way to keep profits rolling in. Learn how the economy works.
60. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)
Dude...basic economics - if good paying jobs leave the states, then people will not be able to afford certain goods. Good luck to everyone working in the low paying service industry....unless you can earn extra with tips :-)
Capitalism is good, but like any idea, if it is being 'overdone', it will collapse unto itself - ask the ROMAN EMPIRE.
122. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
If you surf the many post that I have made you will find that white collar as well as blue collar jobs were sent abroad. As far as basic economic go you don't have a clue how economics works in the U.S
Your one point about less money in circulation due to less jobs is correct. Capitalism being over done analogy is correct! Regardless the sending of jobs over seas is due to bonus's earned by increasing a companies stock performance. Hp's CEO mishandled Palm's acquisition, and was awarded 117 million dollars for this mishap
. He was fired and 10,000 jobs were cut and HP manufacturing was sent to China.
This has nothing to do with allowing consumers to benefit from lower cost products, and every thing to do with making their stock more attractive to investors.....wake up!
127. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
you keep holding on to that one example. villanize villanize! yea yea! im clueless because i refuse to villanize!
i dont get into the hypocricy of "obscene profits and pay". How the company chooses to run and pay is not mine or your business as long as they are within the bounds of the law. And I am talking specifically in America about that, where workers have rights.. not in places like China where workers are treated like slaves.
Obviously Palm and HP are not great examples of good capitalism, but in a free market you will have good and bad. You can not legislate morality. You will only create more problems. I love how people keep blaming the companies for playing the game, yet they are not the ones that set the rules. We are. We vote in the politicians that make the rules.
Those jobs were going overseas anyways. HP wasnt exactly having a banner time with or without the Palm buy out. Its just a great scapegoat. And you fell for it.
You do realize that the only reason a company exists is to make a profit right? Yet you keep complaining that the companies want to make a profit. Kind of hippocritical. If you set up a punative system like we have now, they will find ways around it, like shipping overseas. If you set up a rewarding system, they will find their way back. Its that simple. But you cant seem to grasp that. Please, call me more names and show me how right you are! lolol
128. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
The more you speak the more ignorant you show yourself to be. I posted a response that off shoring of jobs is not based on passing lower cost product to the consumer.
I backed this comment with a fact about why that statement is true. You come and attack in every post with stupid ignorant rants, and then you cry when I spank you with the truth. Go away "lil bwoy" and learn something. Then come back and make relevant meaningful post, and stop wasting my time posting ignorant stupid comments!
Companies exist to make a profit, but poor leadership, poor business decision help kill the company at employees expense time and time again. Hp did just this while also managing to kill their own stock. ROFL.
Hp is not a good example because it proves me right and you wrong! Wake up fool!
2. jaytai0106 (Posts: 1886; Member since: 30 Mar 2011)
Great... I paid more tax in percentage than Apple. What a great country we are living in...
97. Lucas777 (Posts: 2137; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)
dont blame apple-- they are just following the [very inconsistent] rules... i am sure most companies do this as america is very uneven in their tax rates... anyways having corporate taxes be high is what is killing the economy in france and england... it drives away sales is definitely not what america needs... i have no doubt that the tax system needs to be revised but corporate taxes should not be raised... i mean look at how much it benefited california who is almost bankrupt because of things like this
3. 14545 (Posts: 1353; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)
Honestly, income taxes, both corporate and personal, should be 0. As that is the way the constitution was set up. They laid forth the framework for excise taxes, imposts and duties. The 16th amendment should be repealed, and then this would be a non issue. Just make everyone, along the route of any supply chain, to charge sales tax. Revenue should only drop to 2002 levels. THEN CUT THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT.
Last, I bet the sheeple will start chiming in saying that apple was only doing their "civic duty" to lower taxes for their shareholders. And yes, every business does this, but these are the same people that will crucify "Big Oil" for not paying enough in taxes even though their profit margins are only 1/7 of apples. Yeah, they made "Billions" on hundreds of billions in sales. So compare apples 50-70% profit margin to that of Exxon, which is like 8.8% IIRC. People just need to quit worrying about what everybody else pays and worry about changing the tax laws themselves.
11. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Sales tax is a regressive tax which means poor people will pay a much higher percentage of their income to sales tax.
15. JeffdaBeat (unregistered)
Taco50 is actually correct on this one. With a national sales tax, the poor and even the middle class will have a larger portion of their income taken away with a national sales tax than the rich. If I buy a gallon of milk and hypothetically paid $1 in taxes, but I only brought home $20 a week...I'd be paying far more than a person who made $50 a week and paid that same dollar.
And then it comes to where do we cut the size of Government? Do we take away assistance for the poor or the elderly? Or defense? It's easy to spout this off...but what are you going to do with the results when the poor are even poorer and can't afford to sustain themselves when you've charged them a flat sales tax?
16. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
taco is not right.
a national sales tax that gets rid of income taxes.. like the Fair Tax, DOES NOT tax the general necessities of life, which includes grocieries and cheap clothing. It is the OPPOSITE of regressive, because the poor truely pay zero as long as they only buy what they need. However, when you run out to buy an iphone, you pay the 23% sales tax on it. Guess what.. u dont need it. You want it. When a millionaire goes and buys a new house or boat, they pay 23% sales tax on it. And there is NO loop holes. There is no accountant to help dodge taxes.. its due at the time of payment. That 23% also represents getting rid of all the imbedded taxes that everyone pays right now, before sales tax. so while 23% sounds high. its not.. its about 1% or so more than we are paying right now. But again it takes the imbedded taxes OUT of the pretax price we currently see, so pricing will drop accordingly.. which means those poor are paying even LESS taxes than they do now.
It also brings in millions of new taxpayers by forcing all the income tax dodgers.. illegals, drug pushers, people living on dividends... back into the tax fold.
You only get taxed if you buy something that isnt a basic necessity. There isnt a more fair system out there.
20. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
Who decides whats necessary or not wake up! The game is that imports are higher than exports meaning we bring in more than we send out production wise. But, this is a smoke and mirror shell game.
Most of the products imported are made by American companies seeking to make profits off of cheap labor, and lower taxes by relocating to countries like Ireland. Check your phones just to see if this statement is true or not. They send manufacturing over seas to offset labor cost and TAXES. They then import these products as American made products assembled in China. This lowers tax collection revenues from exports because we now have become importers to cheat taxes.
What needs to be done to change this is TAX all companies that send manufacturing and jobs over seas as we tax foreign companies that come to America to sell products. Then give tax incentives to companies that stay in America creating jobs
Research this before saying this is false. Learn how the economy works then come at me because I have done my home work on this,
22. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
you want to punish people that run from taxes.. by finding new ways to tax them? you do realize that will only make things worse right?
The best solution is NO taxes. Consumption only taxes like the Fair Tax will not only help the poor more than the current system as well as force tax dodgers and illegals to pay too, but it will also erase ALL income taxes, including corporate taxes.. which will make us a tax haven instead of a tax hell like we currently are.
Companies run from us because we have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world. They run to countries with much lower imbedded taxes. Instead of finding new ways to punish them with taxes, find ways to lower their tax burden so they bring jobs back to America.. which will bring more jobs.. which will give more people money.. which will increase tax income without actually increasing ANYONEs taxes.
You havent researched anything if you dont understand that.
32. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
You really are misinformed that second highest tax rate is a misnomer "son"! I believe that CNBC aired that we have moved into 1st place.
Regardless when the loop holes and deductions are applied the over all corporate tax rate in America is 25% ok This information was aired on CNBC. When it comes to money for R&D Exxon, and many other companies pay no taxes because of these loop holes.
Sending manufacturing overseas for lower wages and cheating on taxes by off shoring is not the way ok.. It's not about punishing through new ways of taxing its punishing for cheating the system by using other nations to hide from paying your fair share!
These companies relocate to pay less taxes and use the system to avoid paying their fair share through off shoring. If issues break out in those countries our troops funded by the taxes they avoid paying rescue their asses as well...wake up this is way deeper than the pages you and I are using to go back in fourth here.
34. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
that article? yes, thats new. So, now we are the highest taxed country in the world. And not only taxes, but regulations. Apple themselves has said that one of the benefits of NOT being in america is the lack of regulations. If they want to change over product lines they have to conform to all sorts of red tape, wait for government OKs and all sorts of crap.. where they dont have to do so over seas.
Your only helping my arguement, not yours. The answer isnt find new ways to punish them, the answer is to make a place where they WANT to come home.. and not only american companies, but other companies from around the world.. bring their jobs to US.
35. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
Read these article about who's paying what from Time magazine and other news entities and learn, You are so stupid you think that I am helping your argument Forrest Gump stupid is as stupid does. rofl
It helps my argument because we are not the highest corporate tax payers in the world when deductions and loop holes are taken advantage of fool. Exxon and GE pay no taxes where as in other countries they would be paying. Apple paid 9.8% wake up and read....R.I.F. ok
37. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
ooooh.. oh no. i learned. Kinda mirrors what I've already been saying about tax loop holes and politician influence eh?
Oh yea, who granted those tax loopholes for GE to pay zero? Obama under his "green initiatives".
Who gave Obama millions for his election campaign? GE.
See a pattern?
38. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
Also, just to point out.. the ONLY companies that get those massive tax breaks are large corperations.
Do you know which companies house the most jobs? Small businesses. Did you know that small business get a fraction of the breaks of those large corps and pay in a ton more taxes in % and over all revenue? Did you know most small corps are S corps which are when company taxes are paid through individual personal taxes? Did you know most "taxes on the rich" affect that group more than it ever affects any actual rich person?
BTW, did you know that everyone who makes over 34k this year is going to see a massive tax increase because the government considers them "rich", and is trying to let the Bush tax cuts expire again in a few months... which was a huge tax cut for those making 34k and up.
Quit reading an article and thinking thats good research. Try taking a few economics classes and get back to me.
41. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
you take economy classes that teach you to go along with the same bull that is out there. As far as your classes go you must be failing judging by your stupid post.
We are not debating who's creating jobs now are we. We could but that's another subject off of the topic we are addressing here....Lets stick with the topic shall we Mr going off in tangents without valid points to show how unintelligent we really are
86. 14545 (Posts: 1353; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)
I've taken Junior level econ courses in route to my BSME, just because it enjoy it. Anyway, you clearly have a complete misunderstanding of how economies of scale work. Or how a simple supply/demand graph works. If you increase costs for a company to do business, YOU DIRECTLY FORCE THOSE BUSINESSES TO MAKE DECISIONS TO ABANDON THE MANUFACTURING BASE HERE.
Just like with any good or service, you raise the price, you see a decease in demand. (with the exception of those rare times where demand is very inelastic. Like college textbooks.) I can point you in the direction of some good econ text books if you would like to enlighten yourself on how things work.
101. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
You fail to understand how capitalism works, trim the fat and pass the savings to the stock holder. Greed forces companies to send jobs overseas while they line their own pockets and those of stock holders by trying to make their stock prices go to the moon there by creating "BIG" bonus's . You need to pull your head out of your ass. Go watch the inside job to find leading college course economic professor misleading the public for profit.....greed in it's purest form!
Demand creates jobs and vice versa jobs create demand in a round about way when it comes to products being bought and sold! I have way better understanding than you think I just don't have my head shoved up my ass thinking that s**tty smell is someone else s s**t!
Junior level econ courses my arse you I have been selling product for over 25 years and can tell you quite a bit about supply and demand!
Offshoring (or Offshore Outsourcing) and Job Loss Among U.S. ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
in manufacturing industries to jobs in professional and business services, administrative support .... However, sending abroad the jobs of blue-collar workers ... shareholders, raise stock prices through buy backs, and undertake more mergers ... trade deficit in 2010 created 1.4 million jobs overseas in 2010 and that many of
Seems like to me I have to hold class to all of the smart econ wannabe idiots rofl
You can't buck the federal report to congress about this now an you? This report supports all that I have said about sending jobs overseas for profit and nothing else!
103. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
you dont make half the point you think your making when you fill your rant with insults. For someone to be as "old and wise to the game" as you claim to be you sure act more like a mouthy teenager.
I managed a business for nearly 10 years.. built new and rebuilt failing stores... made the hard decisions to keep my P&L in the black during down times. I worked many 100+ weeks to make labor goals and such. I'm extremely versed in "the free market". What is your point? I know people in business that fall on both sides of the isle. Guess what.. most of the time those that are running small businesses side with those that promise to reduce tax burdens. Those costs get put into hiring/pay decisions, layoff decisions, passing costs to the customer to keep your head above water, figuring out how to stay competitive by reducing costs or going with cheaper suppliers.
The heavier the taxes, the harder the decisions are. Eventually the taxes are high enough that the decision to start laying off people and making the rest work harder for no extra pay becomes the only option. Who does that exactly benefit??
The bulk of US companies are not like Apple.. they are an anomole. Even the heavily villainized gas companies only make about 8-10% profit after all taxes and tarrifs, which is normal. Only a moron thinks they don't pay taxes. Do you know how much they have to pay in exploratory fees and regulations? They pay taxes out the ying yang. And going back to those hard decisions.. do you know who ULTIMATELY pays all those taxes? The consumer. Most costs are offset by giving them to the consumer whenever possible to reduce layoffs and benefit reductions. If you REALLY owned/ran a business for so long, you would know that.
Corporations by and large do not pay taxes directly out of their coffers. they offset as much cost to the consumer as possible while still staying competitive. If their competition is offsetting taxes, then they can too.. and its a back n forth until the bulk of taxes are offset in pricing to the consumer. So the more you raise corporate taxes, the more you raise taxes on consumers.
And as much as liberals want to villainize Oil companies, raising taxes on them is the most regressive tax around. When they offset those taxes on to energy prices, who really gets hurt? The poor. Its kinda hard to avoid buying energy.. for your car.. house, whatever.
Good intentions + lack of REAL education on the situation = bad outcome.
108. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
"you dont make half the point you think your making when you fill your rant with insults. For someone to be as "old and wise to the game" as you claim to be you sure act more like a mouthy teenager."
Go read most of your post where people disagree with you then lets talk. The pot calling the kettle black. This is directed at you because this is what you have done to me and others in the past. I am just giving you a taste of your own medicine.
If you can't get my point from the post I have made you are really clueless.
The point is that big profits and stock prices are the reasons corporations send jobs over seas, and the loop holes of off shoring profits, and opening head quarters over seas is just another way to avoid paying taxes. This has nothing to do with demand or any thing that you have posted. This is in this report by the government to congress itself. What else do you need to see you are wrong? The topic here is about paying fair share of taxes, and why these companies try to avoid paying their fair share, not about war on drugs, and demand of higher tax rates when in fact the effective tax rate is the lowest it has ever been.
Bruce Bartlett has served as an economic adviser in the White House, the Treasury Department and Congress.
Historically, the term “tax rate” has meant the average or effective tax rate — that is, taxes as a share of income. The broadest measure of the tax rate is total federal revenues divided by the gross domestic product.
By this measure, federal taxes are at their lowest level in more than 60 years. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that federal taxes would consume just 14.8 percent of G.D.P. this year. The last year in which revenues were lower was 1950, according to the Office of Management and Budget
The above quote is from the New York Times just for you as fact not opinion!
I am not trying to villainize oil or any one else, but merely post the facts as I find them.
117. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
if your referring to taco, taco gets special treatment because he is nothing more than a lying and inconsequential troll. I feel i treat him pretty fairly considering he has been barking at my heels for nearly 4 years, is almost always wrong, completely vile, lies through his teeth.. and more. We have a very.. special.. history.
I dont remember any time where i threw double digit insults at you during a conversation. Nice try though. Less "taste of your own medicine" and more "you cant control yourself".
118. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
You have insulted me a few time Mr....whether you can remember it or not is irrelevant. You have insulted me here and on the Sprint Site. Most people that are as arrogant and as insulting as you never remember insulting others!
I can control myself, but you should look in the mirror.
121. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
on the sprint site? What are you talking about?
I generally only lob an insult if your completely off base and are demanding about it.. or acting like a tool already. I dont generally insult just to insult during a discussion because I dont agree, unlike what you have been doing here.
129. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
"I generally only lob an insult if your completely off base and are demanding about it.. or acting like a tool already."
You just gave what I said merit with this phrase genius!
Who are you that you think you are so damn self righteous that it is ok to insult people, and fail to be able to take what you dish out? I am doing just what you do on this site cry baby!
When living in a glass house don't be too "QWIK" to throw the 1st stone! rofl
130. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
u obviously skimmed over the whole part where I admitted to only carrying on this conversation because I'm laughing at you. :) Im taking all your insults just fine. They are not bothering me one bit. I'd have to respect you first for the insult to stick. I'm pretty sure I just explained that.. but obviously your not reading, your skimming.
133. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
Then I guess we are laughing at each other. Go read some of your post and you just might cry about just how ignorant you really are! If my post didn't bother you you wouldn't be whining like a sissy all over the place ROFL SISSY I have a skirt, and pom poms for you to go cheer for the people that are robbing you of your future! Want some lip stick too lmao
39. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
"Oh yea, who granted those tax loopholes for GE to pay zero? Obama under his "green initiatives""
Keep talking you really prove my point of how opinionated and stupid you really are.ROFL
Those laws have been in effect way before Obama idiot. I cant't believe you claim to be so intelligent yet make these stupid misinformed quotes.
Seems like I am educating you as we go. I can't talk to a misinformed moron like you...Vote Romney or the Tea party ok
40. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
perhaps you should look that up before going on a childish name calling rant? eh?
again, slinging tons of insults with no evidence of anything. U have fun with that.
42. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
No need to the tax loop holes were there way before Obama fool....the tax loop holes are what I am referring too nothing else rofl
49. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Remix is very opinionated regardless of knowing anything about the topic. He'll read one article somewhere and base his whole ideology off that without really knowing anything about the subject. He then makes blanket statements and goes on tangents and makes himself look a fool.
53. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
wow, you know if you change "remix" to "taco50" then you have a very accurate statement. I think you were trying to be honest about yourself but lacked the courage to go the whole way.
sad sad little lying internet troll.
75. gallitoking (Posts: 4718; Member since: 17 May 2011)
i agree remix is always making statements that only exist in his head...
77. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
oh no.. both itards are coming at me
what should I do!?!?!
btw gallito that email u used to send me your g+ link doesn't connect to my email and there are too many peeps with your name to properly search u. reemail me from your regular address so I can link properly. or just search me on g+.
84. 14545 (Posts: 1353; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)
Qwikstrike, THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T FORCE MORALITY. Why do you think the "war on drugs" is such a failure. "Punishing" them for trying to "dodge your taxes" is only going to act to exacerbate the problem. Anything that hinders a businesses ability to do business is going to stop certain companies from coming here. Also, look at Ireland, I believe they decreased the corp rate to 15% from 30%(iirc) and went from negative job growth to positive. I don't remember the exact numbers, as it was in 09 that I read about it. But regardless, the point is that ONLY rewards will bring new jobs to america. Punishments will only send more away.
107. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
War on drugs was a failure because they targeted the wrong people....low level offenders rather than the importers at the top...lets not go there because you really are clueless.
66. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
I think QWIKSTRIKE's idea makes lots of sense. Large companies are not just escaping taxes, but also creating jobs outside the country. With an imposed tax law to target outside manufacturing it will "probably" force companies to second thought their choice of moving their manufacturing outside of the country and try to find a manufacturing domestically. In return closing a part of tax loop hole and creating jobs in the country.
70. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
no it will just force large companies to move their headquarters outside of the US to negate that whole game. Walmart has a CITY in China it calls its headquarters for that very reason.
you can't punish people into submission which is what you are suggesting. you have to entice them. and while your enticing them you are also enticing every other company in the world to come and create jobs as well. you get much better results by making people want to relocate here than trying to chain them here.
73. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
Just reread what you just typed....it is as foolish as it sounds if you understand what he and I am talking about. This idea would force companies to think twice about opening factories over seas to escape taxes if their products are taxed as they ship back to the US. The companies that stay in the US would be given a tax break to create jobs in America with this tax, and the closing of tax loop holes. This idea is one which President Obama supports btw....now I have done it!
This loop hole has people thinking that there is a trade imbalance when is not entirely tue. Companies like Ford, Apple Motorola, HP, Dell, Gateway, Google, Hasbro, and many more American based companies opened factories over seas to pay lower labor cost and off shore profits to avoid taxes, and then ship these items back to the US as parts i.e. car companies, and merchandise i.e. Dell, Apple, HP ect.
These products are manufactured in China, and then shipped to the American consumer makes it appear that there is a trade imbalance when in fact its the American companies that are creating this imbalance to avoid paying taxes! They are the ones importing products made in China to sell to the very same people that they are putting out of work....how dumb! They are killing the very same base that they are trying to sell products to. Remember the biggest consumer base in the world is the U.S. rofl
For the Car companies there is a loop hole that says parts shipped to America can't be taxed. They make parts over seas and then use them or assemble them in cars in the U S to off set labor cost, and to avoid paying import taxes on a whole assembled car. I could go on and on about what I have found out but it would be a book, and lots of debate from ignorant naive people wanting me to prove it rather than check what I say is a fact or not then come at me.
74. good2great (Posts: 1042; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
hahaha remix are you gonna let QWIKSTRIKE talk to you like that???!!! wow...
76. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
the day I care about what some liberal fool on the internet thinks about me is the day ill vote for Obama.
the fact that he is taking sides with taco is just hillarious. "this Guy kinda sounds like he agrees with me so imma. gang up with him on this guy that doesn't".
little does he seem to realize he is siding with the town moron that no one but the other fools take seriously .. and a loud one at that.
quickstrike every time you try to present an ideal its half baked and half the time your rebutting something ... no one mentioned. throwing up the constant intellectual insults just make it funny. I give you credit for at least trying to present your opinion with fact.. misguided as they may be.. unlike your new bestest buddy.
85. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
I have always posted what I believe to be true based on fact, and don't need some one else to validate my thinking. Nothing is more half baked than the opinionated bull s**t that you push.
You seem to think that you have all the answers based on your backwards thinking with out any facts to back up the non sense that you post.
Taco makes a valid point and I have heard what he said from many analyst talking about the possible regressive tax that you propose affecting the middle class and poor.
You seem to hate to find yourself wrong, and I find that you can be insulting and ignorant when someone disagrees with your opinion. I merely hand you what you have handed me and many others that disagree with your bull!
If you call me liberal for posting facts about how the rich take advantage of the 99%, and get idiots like you to cheer lead them I guess I am a liberal.
Ronald Reagan said that " I think it is unfair that millionaires pay less in taxes than a blue collar worker, and they need to pay their fair share of the tax burden, By today's standard he would be a liberal too.
Anyone that takes a position to do whats right for every one instead of just doing whats right for the millionaires and big corporations is a liberal.
You are just a fool that thinks that if you cheer hard enough you can become just like the 1%.
I believe in capitalism in its purest form. No subsidies through loop holes, and off shoring of jobs to avoid paying fair wages, or to avoid paying fair taxes. I believe every one should be treated equal, and have an equal voice in our society, with out our voice being drown out by lobbyist with deep pockets. I believe the truth should be told to everyone as opposed to the media clouding the truth for self serving purposes like advertising to dupe the consumer. I believe that the off shoring of jobs to avoid paying taxes, and to undermine the American working class is un-American. I believe the importing of workers under the HB1 Visa to undermine fair wages is un-American, and I believe that if I pay 38% in taxes so should the rich. If this makes me a liberal so be it!
FDR set up the health and vacation system in EU, and Japan. FDR said that I wouldn't want to work in any place that didn't have a union!
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to ... remain silent.
"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny”
87. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson
The last three comments above were from founding father Thomas Jefferson!
92. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
seriously, that was the best 2 posts you have written. kudos.
honestly, I dont hold regan up to a conservative ideal. He was a great many things and did many great things, but he was also the start of the big government religious conservative movement. It was because of Regan that they pulled away from Goldwater conservatives, which ended up splintering into the Libertarian movement. Thats what I identify myself with.
"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny”
That quote is perfect... for my arguements. All of my arguements for the Fair tax, and all of our back n forth have been to level the playing field and reduce the power of government to create loopholes which make false winners in the market. They let the companies that "contribute" the most "win" without a fair fight. Like it or not Obama DID give new and special tax breaks to GE for their campaign contributions directly and through PACs. Was he the first president or member of a party to do so? Absolutely not.
My proposal not only levels the playing field, helps the poor, greatly reduces the power of government to interfere in the market, but also makes us the worlds biggest tax HAVEN for companies to COME to america to invest their money tax free. That will put TRILLIONS of dollars into the US economy. More so than any other plan.. especially any plan that tries to punish businesses in any which way shape or form. The only people that write articles against it are people that have a vested interest in keeping the status Quo and keeping politicians in power.
102. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny”
The media and the 1% know this above quote, and mislead the people with false information to achieve their goal to keep us poor and them rich!
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to ... remain silent
I am not one to remain silent, and I read and research more than both of you I bet!
I tried to stay away from you and Tacos post but this statement above is why I had to speak up! I know what he said had merit so I posted that belief!
You have lots to learn but keep picking at me and I will learn you the facts, and back them with posted reference not made up opinion!
Now we almost agreeing on the same way of thinking; "when facts supersede ego a wise man recognizes the truth when he sees it because it is undeniable!"
104. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
you know whats funny. You tried to pick at me for my lack of spelling, but you completely lack any sentence structure and grammar.
You shouldnt bet. You obviously dont know me well enough. Ask Taco about taking bets with me. I tend to be right more often than not.
Here's the thing. People have beliefs, and they find research that bolsters that belief. I cant think of the exact term at the moment since its late, but its very similar to System Justification Theory (people finding ways to justify a system in place even if its ultimately negative for them) which also fits this. The ONLY thing that helps EVERYONE in America is wiping out all corperate and payroll taxes. Again, ive already explained that enough. If you refuse to actually research the ACTUAL FairTax and not some random anti-flat/VAT tax blog you find on the internet, I cant force you. You havent actually countered a single thing about the FairTax that I've mentioned. You went off on tangents about VAT taxes which have nothing to do with anything.
112. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
I don't need Taco to validate your thinking you do it all on your own!
113. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
This fair tax that you talked of may have its merit, but I may need more information on how it is administered.
I know the IRS won't like this law lol
115. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
of course, it abolishes the IRS completely and makes them irrelevant. You will only need enough agents to enforce collection from the businesses.. and thats it. Politicians hate it because it greatly reduces their power. Liberals hate it because it stops income redistribution. But if it was ever implemented it would be an over night success like we have never seen, and it would convince the world that liberalism is the inferior idea once and for all.
120. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
Tell me what's the difference between the "fair tax", and the "consumption tax"
134. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
I have read that information, and I am asking "you" what's the difference between the "fair tax", and the "consumption tax".
From what I have gathered they are the same, and if this is so Taco's premise is right. Since you are the leading "fair tax" export explain the difference if you would. Again I have read that sight and all that it explains about the fair tax! Here is your chance to shine!
135. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
A Consumption Tax versus a Federal Income Tax in the ... - FairTax
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by SAR Tomlinson - Related articles
This thesis makes a comparison between a consumption tax and the current ..... Initially, in the United States taxes were applied to the different states based on ...
Based on the fair tax org site they seem to be the same the "fair tax" and "consumption tax". In fact if they are the same then I was correct when I posted way back when I posted about this and the VAT link.
What you fail to recognize is that I don't think the VAT is worthy of any thing, and never suggested that it was. However; the judgement rendered against the consumption and VAT happened to be in that same link.
Again if they are the same "Taco", and "Jeffdabeat" are correct. Instead of ranting, and going off in different childish tangents you can refute this with supporting fact not opinion or just shut the "F" up Forrest Gump!
88. 14545 (Posts: 1353; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)
Ok, for the most part I have to agree with Qwik here. Reagan was a sham. But then again I don't like any president since Harding. Then before him, well I can't think of any till the early 1800's. So, that being said, you are also right about democracy being "mob rule". Hence the reason our founders set us up as a constitutional republic. That way we should have been able to avoid these issues. However, sometime along the way the idiots of society have pushed their way in and caused the issues we now have.
All that being said, you still have to understand that by punishing companies that outsource, or "tax dodge", isn't going to go along way towards bringing those suppliers back onshore. You're going to have to give them incentives to do so. Shoot, if apple were to bring it's offshore money back to america, according to 60 minutes, it would cost them some 20 billion in an upfront payment for taxes. WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT?
109. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 988; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
Childish and ignorance at its best good2great!