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Apple's 64-bit A7 processor offers "zero benefit" according to Qualcomm

0. phoneArena 01 Oct 2013, 19:45 posted on

There has been a lot of chatter surrounding the idea of 64-bit mobile processors ever since Apple used it as marketing buzz with its new iPhone 5s. We pointed out that it could be a while before iOS users actually see any real benefit from the 64-bit A7 processor, and now Qualcomm is saying that the processor will actually offer "zero benefit" to users...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 19:49 28

1. darkkjedii (Posts: 10128; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)


Dude what else would they say lol. All I know is my 5S buries my 5 and note 2 in speed, and responsiveness. I can only speak for my devices though.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 20:10 4

6. GeekyGene (Posts: 88; Member since: 25 Aug 2013)


So much sour grapes right.

IMHO; Apple are providing the tools to get apps compiled for 64bit quickly and easily. Any apps that deal with encoding/decoding etc should benefit a little right? But at the end of the day, its all about pushing things forward. Their ecosystem is much better prepared to get this done quickly and painlessly, so I think this 'gimmick' is one that at least has some delivery. It will likely be all over and done with by this time next year as well, and when the iPhone 6 shows up, 64bit will be just a footnote commenting on the wide support that's now in place in the AppStore.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 21:12 5

41. sprockkets (Posts: 1089; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)


I guess that means your 5 was a slow POS then? I accept your apology.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 04:07 3

74. james004 (Posts: 471; Member since: 15 May 2013)


64 bit processor with 32 bit OS and 32 bit Apps. so where is the smartness in that?
qualcomm has always spoken truth about these SoCs manufacture, first samsung makes hype of Octo then Nvidia makes hype of 72 cores GPU and now apple.
one company that has always delivered according to their advertisment is qualcomm.
i rather chose qualcomm over all these hyped up SoCs that lie.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 10:48

94. carlosquiroz (Posts: 5; Member since: 16 Sep 2013)


iOS is 64bit for iPhone 5S, inform yourself better

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 22:03 3

49. maxican16 (Posts: 363; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)


Of course it's faster, those other device are a year old, and one of them runs the most lag filled skin in the android world. But what apple has done with their processor is pretty amazing, and I'm not talking about 64-bit nonsense that nothing has been optimized for.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 01:25 8

60. syedzain (Posts: 174; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)


and now they would say android this and android that.. Benchmark reveals Apple iPhone 5s blows all Android devices...

we should ignore these people and enjoy our iPhone 5s :)

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 02:54 2

66. cezarepc (Posts: 524; Member since: 23 Nov 2012)


Since when did iFans use benchmark as a bragging right?

posted on 05 Oct 2013, 20:38

123. sarge77 (Posts: 202; Member since: 14 Mar 2013)


Its about time they did thats the only thing android always talks about it benchmarks.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 03:23 2

71. JMartin22 (Posts: 713; Member since: 30 Apr 2013)


Only on a few on-screen benchmarks does it come out handy, it still loses in other places. But then again, all Android devices as of now are running older ARMv7 architecture. Once they get ARMv8 as well, the A7 processor will get demolished, judging by how it's only edging out the competition in some areas.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 09:03

87. Bootutu (Posts: 184; Member since: 11 Jul 2013)


Keep watching how the 5s gets destroyed, no more powerful iphone sorry

http://gfxbench.com/result.jsp

http://gfxbench.com/result.jsp?benchmark=gfx27&data-source=1&version=all&test=478&text-filter=&order=score&os-Android=true&os-iPhone_OS=true&arch-ARM=true&arch-MIPS=true&arch-x86=true&base=device

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 09:15

89. Ninetysix (Posts: 1385; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)


LOL of course it does :) You see arrayOfPackageInfo[7] = new PackageInfo("com.glbenchmark.glbenchmark27", in their boosting code for a reason. But hey, keep on gloating those benchmarks Bootutu.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/galaxy-note-3s-benchmarking-adjustments-inflate-scores-by-up-to-20/

LG G2 uses the same SOC as the LTA version of S4

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 09:38 1

91. Bootutu (Posts: 184; Member since: 11 Jul 2013)


Yup LG does it too, and so is Apple, you think the A7 doesn't run at full speed in benchmark, Apple hides everything from you, so don't be blind ok

https://db.tt/sxMYCqWp

https://twitter.com/anandtech

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 09:42

92. Ninetysix (Posts: 1385; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)


I got my eyes on you buddy. Keep me entertained.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 19:58

116. syedzain (Posts: 174; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)


U mean the benchmark that was cheated to look as if it beats iPhone 5s ... LMFAO!!!

posted on 03 Oct 2013, 03:12

119. cezarepc (Posts: 524; Member since: 23 Nov 2012)


You guys are either not reading properly or just plain friggin' stup!d.

These boosts in benchmarks are not cheating at all. They ramp up the CPU/GPU usage when benchmark app is detected running. How can that be a cheat? It's just like running the phone in full speed then measuring performance from there. Geez.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 14:19 1

104. phatcow (Posts: 17; Member since: 13 Jun 2013)


If you think about it though, with the high end Android devices, they have to process more for higher resolution display, more processes (that I like having due to customizability and features), and other things that makes the process have to process more than the iPhone. Thats why in benchmarks screen on iPhone has better scores but screen off Android comes on top.

I agree with you about ignoring the haters and enjoying our phones! But you are no better hating on Android...

posted on 05 Oct 2013, 20:36

122. sarge77 (Posts: 202; Member since: 14 Mar 2013)


lol iphone should also be a chip manufacture as well the giant bandwidth this system supports is why this is a beast the gpu is really powerful but I love my android device. Nice work for apple using a dual core chip to out class its rivals that is impressive but you have to admit the only gimmick this year is the 5c besides the many choices of colors that about it the iphone 5 beats the 5c in benchmarks.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 03:19 5

70. JMartin22 (Posts: 713; Member since: 30 Apr 2013)


If your new phone "buries" your old phones in responsiveness and agility, then it has to do with the newer architecture of your SoC, not because it's 64-bit compatible. But then again, you're not very smart, an atypical trait of Apple customers.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 15:12

106. bigstrudel (Posts: 518; Member since: 20 Aug 2012)


But then again, you're not very polite, a typical trait of Android users that post on PA.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 06:38 5

79. MobileKicker (Posts: 212; Member since: 19 Sep 2013)


Samsung can make nothing of its own
Chip of Qualcomm, os of android, chat on, etc.
That's a difference between an iphone & galaxy
But apple has everything.of its own a7, iOS, iMessage, etc.
+1

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 08:02 5

83. PhoneArenaUser (Posts: 5464; Member since: 05 Aug 2011)


Looks like you are illiterate in tech. ;)

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 08:21 5

84. JDogg5281 (Posts: 54; Member since: 09 Aug 2012)


Last time i checked Samsung makes iphones chip! Doesnt the iphone use google apps such as youtube. Samsung actually does make their own chip thats in the some Note 3, some S4, some S3, Note 2. Try doing some research before posting. Thanks

posted on 05 Oct 2013, 20:42

124. sarge77 (Posts: 202; Member since: 14 Mar 2013)


actually your wrong apple and samsung are so close in relationship they helped produce this chip that is whacking the gs4 and probably next would be note 3 lol got to love it.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 07:44

81. PhoneArenaUser (Posts: 5464; Member since: 05 Aug 2011)


"All I know is my 5S buries my 5..."

Lie, not true!

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 07:57

82. yann (Posts: 42; Member since: 15 Jul 2010)


You look at benchmarks.
What about real life? Feel it better or just imagine...

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 16:04

108. intos (Posts: 85; Member since: 06 Jan 2012)


hey dude ... i dont see so much diferent between the iphone 5s and iphone 5...so we waiting for the 6 !!!

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 23:31

118. Mr.Verizon (Posts: 23; Member since: 12 Feb 2012)


Sad thing is, you can't count "buries" when were talking about a second or two faster. Same thing with android phones, you can only get a resolution that is so high and you can only load a webpage as fast as the server your connecting to can send you the data. Same reason i laugh when people puff their chest out that they have 100mbps internet knowing that you never get anywhere near that speed when you download something. Eventually hardware will stop being a selling point when the difference is minor or almost non existent. I can see 4k resolution mobile screens next year but nobody will be able to tell a difference from that and a 1080p

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 19:49 8

2. rusticguy (Posts: 2820; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)


Apple is getting ready for the year 2038 problem? That will be their response on "advantage" :D

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 19:52 2

3. Bootutu (Posts: 184; Member since: 11 Jul 2013)


The 32bit is ok for now as it is optimised for all the apps available, and besides the S800 beats the 64bit in any relevant benchmarks, next year i'm sure Android phones will come with 4GB of RAM to fully utilise the potential of 64BIT processing and not just marketing gimmick

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 20:21 4

11. 14545 (Posts: 1068; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)


I thought that you had to have >4gb of ram to utilize 64 bit? I could be wrong, but that was my understanding.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 20:34 7

13. PapaSmurf (Posts: 7447; Member since: 14 May 2012)


4GB and up.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 22:32 1

54. Shatter (Posts: 1973; Member since: 29 May 2013)


Might as well switch to 64bit already, its not going away anytime soon.

64bit supports up to theoretically 16 exabytes of ram. So Ya... Its here to stay for a LONG time.

posted on 03 Oct 2013, 18:21

121. darkkjedii (Posts: 10128; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)


Dude! Hate to see you limited bro, that sucks. See ya in 6 be cool.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 20:43 6

19. Zero0 (Posts: 571; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)


64-bit's major benefit is being able to use more than 4GB of RAM. However, 32-bit has ways around this; a PAE-enabled Linux kernel can use more than 4GB of RAM, but each process is limited to 4GB. The issue with PAE is that it results in a performance decrease, and it requires hardware that supports it.

Caveat: while PAE is not efficient in terms of resources, 64-bit is also inefficient under a certain RAM threshold. The reason is that you're assigning 64-bit addresses to memory that only requires half of that, and so the system is getting clogged with completely unnecessary information. I don't know when this stops being an issue, but I recall reading that it's no longer appreciable past 2-3GB.

That said, 64-bit has a few other benefits. The 2038 problem is inherent in 32-bit Unix-like systems, and is resolved with 64-bit. (The 2038 problem is pretty much Y2K all over again.) Additionally, certain processor features (new operations) often come along with 64-bit hardware, but I admittedly don't know much about this.

All that said, 64-bit is basically unnecessary for a device with 2GB of RAM which will likely be nonexistent in four years otherwise. The real motivation is that, one day, 64-bit is going to be needed, so it's best to get ready for it while also being the first to say "I made a 64-bit phone."

And anyone who says that phones will never need 64-bit is a fool. Once upon a time, a few megabytes was a lot of RAM.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 11:49 1

95. Notsosuperdave (Posts: 23; Member since: 15 May 2013)


best post period.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 03:16

69. TylerGrunter (Posts: 867; Member since: 16 Feb 2012)


It's the other way around:
You need 64 bits to support more than 4GB of RAM. And that's one of the main causes to move to 64bits.
But you can have 64 bits CPUs with any amount of RAM.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 20:04 5

5. dmn666 (Posts: 194; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)


Didn't expect to hear this from QC - oh well, it's the marketing guy talking this time. It's like saying 64 bit arch gets you server class performance, but you don't need it on phones. This whole mobile SoC business is a gimmick anyway. Penny apps, fart apps don't need these SoCs. Yet hw will evolve, so will bloatware - and will bog down the most advanced hw. It's all about numbers on the spec sheet. So get back to work, QC and bring out a super powerful 'gimmicky' SoC next year.You'll be eating these words then.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 20:47 2

23. Zero0 (Posts: 571; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)


Fart apps don't need good SoCs.

A lot of other things do, though. High-res gaming is process-intensive (obviously), and people want to push phones further graphically. 1080p at a steady framerate is no easy task, and it's possible that, in the future, people will expect phones to out to their 4K TVs without a problem.

Hardware that seems excessive only stays so until software catches back up. If people want phones to drive console-quality games, we're still a ways off from a hardware standpoint.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 21:11 1

39. dmn666 (Posts: 194; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)


You're probably being too optimistic. Phones will never match the experience you'd get from dedicated devices. Their 'small' size is the ultimate barrier. Gaming is a big joke on small screens. Phones will also never have the space for a DSLR quality sensor and lens. Tiny speakers,screens,storage rule out the possibility of decent multimedia usage. Playing 4K natively would be hilarious and streaming it to TVs would be unnecessary since TVs are already smart enough to download any kind of contents.

Before being able to do all of these, phones just need to optimize sw to take full advantage of the hw and sort out battery life.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 21:29 2

44. 14545 (Posts: 1068; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)


I agree and disagree to an extent. There will be a time where for the average user their phone will be the only device needed. Dedicated consoles for gaming will become a niche market. Camera's outside the SLR range will probably be gone. And finally I'm sure that everything will be connected via wireless. I'm not saying this is an overnight shift, but I will say I see this shift in the next decade.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 17:18

110. Zero0 (Posts: 571; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)


That's what MHL and such are for.

Imagine you go anywhere and have all your games with you. You don't need to upgrade your TV every two years to have the latest graphics, because that's insane; just your smartphone.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 18:17

113. 14545 (Posts: 1068; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)


Yes, but I mean I see everything being wireless in the new few years. MHL will be a thing of the past. TV's will just go back to being "dumb displays" with standard wifi connectivity. I'm saying that as advanced as our devices are now, they will be all that and more in just a few years. So much so, that I foresee point and shoots, dedicated game consoles, etc. almost disappear. I could be wrong, it's just what I see happening over the next few years.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 20:55

117. Zero0 (Posts: 571; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)


So we're basically on the same page.

I see it going over the air eventually. It's just a matter of getting a standard protocol that does it; AirPlay, Cast, and DLNA are all behind on this as far as I know.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 20:52 2

27. bigstrudel (Posts: 518; Member since: 20 Aug 2012)


Benchmarks indicate that Qualcomm is not correct.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 21:05 3

34. Commentator (Posts: 2296; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)


Have the benchmarks indicated that the improvements are due to 64-bits?

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 21:12 6

40. PapaSmurf (Posts: 7447; Member since: 14 May 2012)


Benchmarks indicate you've been wrong since day one.

http://gfxbench.com/result.jsp?benchmark=gfx27&data-source=1&version=all&test=478&text-filter=&order=score&os-Android=true&os-iPhone_OS=true&arch-ARM=true&arch-MIPS=true&arch-x86=true&base=device

http://gfxbench.com/result.jsp?benchmark=gfx27&data-source=1&version=all&test=484&text-filter=&order=score&os-Android=true&os-iPhone_OS=true&arch-ARM=true&arch-MIPS=true&arch-x86=true&base=device

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 22:44 4

56. madmikepr (Posts: 90; Member since: 09 Aug 2011)


i cant believe the s4 destroy the 5s in offscreen - (1080p)

posted on 03 Oct 2013, 13:40

120. madmikepr (Posts: 90; Member since: 09 Aug 2011)


and the s4 was release wayyy before the 5s xD

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 02:19 1

64. Trex95 (Posts: 541; Member since: 03 Mar 2013)


http://anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review

The real review

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 02:57 1

67. TylerGrunter (Posts: 867; Member since: 16 Feb 2012)


Those are GPU benchmarks, what that has to do with CPU?
Here is how the cyclone cores pretty much destroy the Krait 400 in any single core test:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/28308?baseline=96439

And it's the same for the A15 cores.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 03:28 3

72. JMartin22 (Posts: 713; Member since: 30 Apr 2013)


The GPU does more work than the CPU when it comes to rendering graphics and games.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 03:35 2

73. TylerGrunter (Posts: 867; Member since: 16 Feb 2012)


Yes, so?
The article talks about the move of the CPU to 64 bits, did you even read it?

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 21:06

36. jove39 (Posts: 1252; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)


64bit registers in cpu would certainly process more data...however how much of this improves daily usage...that's something apple should highlight. Performance comparison pf 32bit cyclone core and 64bit cyclone core will help.

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 02:52 2

65. TylerGrunter (Posts: 867; Member since: 16 Feb 2012)


They actually did, the the response is that in general speed of the CPU is nearly double:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/5
Same says Geekbenck:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/96400?baseline=96439

A different issue is that Apple having the most powerful CPU in mobile is sour grapes for many Android fans.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 21:15

43. sprockkets (Posts: 1089; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)


Apps don't need to be remade on android for 64 since they are all JIT, aka compiled on the fly. The JIT compiler just needs to be properly setup for 64 bit.

Not that it really matters right now anyhow.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 21:31 2

46. bibekpachhai (unregistered)


Screw Android. It's so crappy especially the updates. Now I know you are going to say root your phone and I would root it but there is the problem that my phone will brick or warrant will be void. I can't afford a phone out of contract so I don't have the option and I'm stuck in a 2 year conratct. I choose s3 over the iPhone 5 because I honestly didn't see any upgrade over the 4s. Same s**t but with ios 7, they have made the phone look better. Although they HAVE taken elements from different oems and operating system, they have made it amazing. If Google itself made one flagship like Apple and had great support and everything, I would talk crap but there is too many god damn Android devices. In my honest opinion, there isn't one Android company who does that. I have had lg, htc and Samsung devices which all sucked and NO I'm not a apple fan boy.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 22:11 6

51. maxican16 (Posts: 363; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)


Haha, funny post, but entirely off topic and dumb. Ever heard of Nexus devices?? Designed by Google themselves, running android the way it was meant to be. Also, Google Framework allows Google to update their core apps without waiting for OEMs to update phones to the latest version of android. This allows 98% of android users to run Google's latest software. Fragmentation is so played out. Get with the times.

posted on 01 Oct 2013, 22:53 1

57. sprockkets (Posts: 1089; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)


" Now I know you are going to say root your phone and I would root it but there is the problem that my phone will brick or warrant will be void."

No, we say, buy a Nexus. And get it through T Mobile.

And why are you complaining about updates when the SG3 is about to get 4.3???

posted on 02 Oct 2013, 18:16

111. Shatter (Posts: 1973; Member since: 29 May 2013)


And for people who think tmobile is bad bring your Nexus device to AIO wireless.

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