Apple security team members might have searched home for missing iPhone 5 prototype, not police
0. phoneArena 03 Sep 2011, 14:42 posted on
SFWeekly went further with its investigation, and it turns out that two members of Apple's security team (possibly the same one that deals with counterfeits) were the actual people on the ground that searched the house...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. remixfa (Posts: 14251; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
so apple employees are impersonating police now huh? add that to the growing list of human rights violations that apple commits.
2. blade19 (Posts: 60; Member since: 29 Apr 2011)
I know this has been beaten like a dead horse, but didn't you know but they patented the police badge too!... :) ....lol
78. cheetah2k (Posts: 945; Member since: 16 Jan 2011)
So Apple are now above the law?
WTF is happening to the world.....
16. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Hes talking about the factories apple products come from which dont have a very safe working enviorment. But remixfa is a fanboy because he knows that every company gets there products from chinese factories like foxconn. He singles out apple and turns a blind eye towards everyone else because he is a android/tmobile fanboy. Its a problem for everyone and he knows that. He also read this article in different places i know he did and he knows the police were involved.
20. stealthd (Posts: 1004; Member since: 12 Jun 2011)
Foxconn isn't especially dangerous though, the bigger problem is how many hours they have to put in for what little pay they get (and I've seen the suicide rate mentioned before, Foxconn's is actually below China and the US's national average).
46. remixfa (Posts: 14251; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
alright bio, do me a favor and find another major tech company that has the mass suicide rate, the exploding factories that werent built to codes, police impersonation, house tossing (the original missing i4), uber bullying nature that apple has.
its not because im a fanboy, its because they stand ALONE in the gutter. And only fanboys excuse apple's wrong doing. non fanboy apple users are already turning away from apple saying they wont buy their next device from them because of all this crap.
stealth, there were 17 suicides by jumping in 2 years, then foxcon built a factory in under 2 months and forgot to install ventillation which ended up causing an explosion killing and injuring even more. who is WORSE than that to say that foxcon isnt especially dangerous?
And as meticulous as apple is about their products and controlling everything, they know EXACTLY whats going on. The new guy in charge, Cook, was in charge of hiring foxcon in the first place!
so instead of calling me a fanboy while you blindly defend apples death rates, find me proof that everyone else is just as bad or worse... or shut it.
51. stealthd (Posts: 1004; Member since: 12 Jun 2011)
17 people is not a mass anything. The average suicide rate in China is 21 people per 100,000. Foxconn employs 800,000 people in China, and 400,000 in their Shenzhen facility. Out of that 400k, there should have been 84 people successfully killing themselves, instead there were just 17. To put it in the most obnoxious terms possible: that's 75 people SAVED BY APPLE PER YEAR. (In case you're bad at math, that's 84 people minus 17 divided by 2, I gave you the benefit of rounding down).
And you act as though Foxconn is the only company to have employees killed in an accident. Let's see here, Philips Disaster, 1989, 23 killed, 314 injured by an explosion in Pasadena, TX. Kader Toy Factory fire in Thailand, 1993, 188 (mostly young) men killed. 2005, Texas City Refinery explosion, 15 killed, over 100 injured. 2008, Georgia sugar refinery explosion, 13 people dead and 42 people injured. Now let's look at Foxconn's explosion, which was a total of...wait for it...3 killed and 16 injured. Any loss of life is terrible, but as industrial accidents go, it was not that bad.
Foxconn also happens to make products for Acer, Asus, Sony Ericsson, Nokia, Dell, HP, Microsoft, among many others. Yet you solely blame Apple.
Were you saying something about being a blind fanboy? I defend Apple when people like you utter stupid, nonsensical crap like this. You attack Apple at every opportunity you get no matter how dumb what you're saying is. Congratulations on being even more of a blind fanboy than the ifans you loathe so much.
55. thirdeye (unregistered)
You may be good at math, but you really suck at logic. These are suicides AT the plant itself. Microsoft employs nearly 100k yet people don't jump off of their buildings or shoot themselves to death there, does that mean Microsoft saves 17 lives each year?
When the foxconn worker goes home for the day to overdose on meds to death, or jump off their local bridge, are you going to hear about those? In fact we wouldn't even have heard about the deaths at the plant itself if it weren't for the drastic measures the company was taking like putting in nets around the building. That doesn't exactly address the reason why the workers are killing themselves in the first place.
While I agree Apple isn't the only bad guy here, there's a huge difference between contracting a manufacturer where a freak accident occurs, even if it's due to human negligence versus knowingly and continually employing a company that has very clear and very serious human rights abuse. You hear the same s**t from Apple every year, "We are taking this seriously" and yet the following year even more workers kill themselves.
Face it, no one should be defending any of these big companies, be it Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc etc. Wake up and stop being such a tool.
56. E.N. (Posts: 2404; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)
I think his logic was fine. He was exaggerating the lives saved part. But you do have a point yourself about committing suicide elsewhere.
But he did provide a lot of perspective because all you hear are the bad things Apple does. I had no idea that Foxconn even made products for other companies (even though I'm sure not they don't order the same amount).
And he also does have a strong point with the explosions too. No one should be defending any of the big companies but a lot of people like remixfa sure do a lot of finger pointing.
58. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 923; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)
The problem isn't prevalent in other manufacturing supply factories, only Apples. Not to mention the alleged sickness caused by Apples manufacturing process at only Apple manufacturing plants. Lots of companies are prostituting China, and other nations for lower wages and higher profits, but it seems that Apples products demand has caused it to abandon prudent watch over humanitarian issues during the manufacturing of their products. It has been printed that they have tried to contact Steve Jobs, and Apple about the issues that workers face to no avail.....Karma is a bitch Steve!
73. remixfa (Posts: 14251; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
of all those factory explosions.. how many of those factories were built in less than 90 days? oh yea, just one.. foxconn.
How many of those companies have people regularly jumping off their roof's to a point that they install anti-jumper nets? oh yea, just foxcon. Your suicide rate only deals with a country average. Just because they dont kill themselves at work doesnt mean they arent doing it elsewhere, so instead of subtracting 17 from the national average you have to ADD it to the national average.
Yes EN, foxcon is huge. they make products for seemlingly everyone. Why is it that all the problems happen at the apple factories? Where are the stories of the mass suicides from the Asus factories? Its not just a foxconn thing, its a foxconn-apple thing.
Yea I'm finger pointing. Im pointing it right at the people that are the cause of it. Apple-foxconn. I would be pointing just as hard at google if it had the types of human rights violations that apple does. Its not a fanboy thing, its a "take a stand against it" thing. I dont give a crap which company it was, i would be pointing fingers and refusing to buy their products.
The only ones that seem clouded are the iBots defending apple's atrocities and continuing to buy their products which only shows apple that they dont need to change, because iDiots dont care. Hit them in the wallet, and they will change.
65. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
You are correct man the whole industry is evil. We are just mad remixfa singles out apple and thinks everyone else is angle's
74. remixfa (Posts: 14251; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
thanks for continuing to put words in my mouth biophone. Im sorry that you want to ignore apples atrocities. Keep buying iphones and killing Chinese workers. Its not on my head, its on yours. I dont think any company is an "angel", but there sure are a hell of a lot of companies that are less evil and have a better track record than apple.
86. remixfa (Posts: 14251; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
hey bio.. its been 24 hrs. Im still waiting on proof that the rest of the cell/computer industry is as evil and commits the atrocities that apple commits.
having a hard time finding proof??
71. stealthd (Posts: 1004; Member since: 12 Jun 2011)
I guess you missed the part where Foxconn employees live in dormitories in the facilities. Where else are they going to off themselves?
Agains, there are no human rights abuses here. Foxconn employees aren't slaves. They're there by choice, and apparently it's the best choice available to them. As I've already stated, the only major problem is how many hours they have to work for what little pay they get. But that doesn't seem particularly unique to China. It sucks, and it would be nice for it to change, but a lot of people expect Apple to swoop in and fix everything when it isn't their responsibility. It would certainly be nice considering how much money they're sitting on, but they're by no means obliged to. This isn't an Apple problem it's a China problem.
75. remixfa (Posts: 14251; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
if you owned a company that had a primary partner that was known for horrid conditions, improperly built factories, and mass deaths and suicides at the plants... it is COMPLETELY YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. They make products FOR YOU. Without YOU they wouldnt have those factories open making your products. YOU need to demand immediate changes or you find someone else willing to supply your parts. And considering foxconn's biggest client by far is Apple, Apple has tons of power over them. If apple cared that is.
62. iKingTrust (banned) (Posts: 716; Member since: 27 Jul 2011)
These little kids are silly dont let these 12 year olds work you up
77. Heatfan316 (Posts: 492; Member since: 21 Aug 2011)
@stealthd wow you did a lot of unnecessary research to prove what? I thought Taco50 was going to take the fanboy of year award but with that post you might have done it, why do you fanboys go out of you way to prove a point, here is a little hint we still don't give a rats ass . Now stealthy, can I call you stealthy,I don't care I'm going to call you that anyway, your smart guy and I got nothing against you, and I'm glad apple saves 75 people a year. Just lighten up, damn
81. stealthd (Posts: 1004; Member since: 12 Jun 2011)
Heatfan, I guess the internet is new to you, because a google search landing on a wikipedia page isn't exactly difficult. Lumping me in with taco just goes to show you think everyone that disagrees with is a fanboy. You don't see me pop into every apple article to act like a cheerleader do you?
64. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
I was just about to make you look silly but stealth just beat me to it dang.
53. PeterIfromsweden (Posts: 1230; Member since: 03 Aug 2011)
that is a violation and apple should be sued for this !
4. AppleSUKs (unregistered)
should ban the iphone for this
5. Geeksarebest (Posts: 34; Member since: 28 Jun 2011)
It'll never happen. Besides, you never know what conversations went on. This guy could be doing it for media attention. No matter how good the research being done by reporters is, no one knows for sure what kinds of conversations took place or what was said. Wouldn't be the first time that someone left out key details to make a story.
11. GBcacher (unregistered)
Is that what justice wears?
7. skymitch89 (Posts: 1164; Member since: 05 Nov 2010)
I'm just going to wait for Apple the officially announce/launch the next iPhone/iPod Touch. Been wanting the current gen of iPod Touch but couldn't afford it, now that I can I'm just going to wait for the next gen to see what it has to offer over the current gen.
8. Stoli89 (Posts: 333; Member since: 28 Jun 2010)
If true, then this is surprisingly unprofessional conduct from Apple. The Brand Security team should never lead on any search and seizure procedure and usually hires third parties to follow the police, when/where appropriate, in order to support the gathering of evidence. It's crazy that Apple would allow an employee to be directly involved. Where's the Legal Department, Corporate Affairs and/or Risk Assessment people in Apple's organization? If this story is true, then they have a pretty risky approach to solving this problem and opens Apple up to a myriad of legal challenges.
59. bubbasixx (Posts: 30; Member since: 09 Apr 2008)
Not to mention the fact that first, the Police actually allowed a non-police officer to search a house without ever even filing a report to justify the search, and second there still not being a stolen property report available. This dude, guilty or not, HAS to have an illegal search lawsuit on his hands. I don't care what kind of turtleneck my boss wears, I would never go into a house without a cop present and without a clear warrant. Imagine if he had had the phone. Illegal search AND seizure WITH the cops watching. I don't know how this could have happened this way.
9. OutAndProud iSheep (unregistered)
I don't see anything wrong with $teve's Security. Isn't getting the prototype back and protecting Apple secrets more important than any law? At least that is what Mossberg and Pogue told me.
12. GBcacher (unregistered)
yeah! Apple is the law, like Judge Dredd.
10. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
This story was updated by macrumors. The police were involved check it out. Update this pa please!http://www.macrumors.com/2011/
15. stealthd (Posts: 1004; Member since: 12 Jun 2011)
First they say there's no investigation. Then they say there was an investigation. Until some actual evidence shows up or some charges are filed for theft or impersonating an officer, I'm calling this a hoax.
17. ltr (unregistered)
ITs all about the attention.
There is barely any info on the phone itself.
18. Sniggly (Posts: 7221; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
This is hilarious. Apple trying to be their own police now? Granted, I like how they made the offer of financial reward just for returning the phone, but come on, this is out of hand behavior.
21. Sniggly (Posts: 7221; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
I read the update. It was still Apple security inside that house.
24. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
It was discovered that Apple employees called Mission Police station directly, wanting assistance in tracking down a lost item. Apple had tracked the lost item to a house located in the 500 block of Anderson Street. Because the address was in the Ingleside Police district Apple employees were referred to Officers in the Ingleside district. Four SFPD Officers accompanied Apple employees to the Anderson street home. The two Apple employees met with the resident and then went into the house to look for the lost item
They went with the police and talked to the resident about looking for a stolen item. Its not like they went to his house prentending to be police with a warrent and said let me in your house.
50. Sniggly (Posts: 7221; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Again, you're missing the point here: it was STILL. APPLE EMPLOYEES. SEARCHING THE HOUSE. Those are actions normally reserved for police.
Now granted, I'm not really against working toward finding stolen property while minimizing the involvement of the state. In fact, hey, I'm not really against Apple here. I just think it's funny is all. Come on, admit it, it's hard to visualize Apple hero cops and secret agents doing action movie s**t without grinning. :)
69. roscuthiii (Posts: 1887; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)
The exact problem is that the search was conducted by someone other than law enforcement. Even with consent, having the police outside means there was no one officially there. Not even an official report filed. Apple investigators could simply have pulled a phone from their pocket and come out the the police and said, "Yep! We got it! It was in there. We're pressing charges."
Or- They even could have found it in there (their tracking service did lead them there) and paid him off to keep his mouth shut.
All because there was no one in any official capacity conducting the search.
They questioned his legal status? What bearing does that even have on this incident? If anything it sounds like he consented to the search under duress. And consent under duress is inadmissable. Just ask a rape victim who was told to keep quiet whether or not that was "consent".
29. Heatfan316 (Posts: 492; Member since: 21 Aug 2011)
Biophone stop defending apple you sound pathetic in your eyes apple is never wrong, they have no authority to enter someone's home even if they suspect the device is there where is the search warrant I didn't read anything about a warrant in the article you can't search someone's house without a warrant, but you sheep keep on condoning apple's evil actions, but your going to say that was their property they have right to that and I'm going to say I don't give a rats ass just deal with it.
30. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
I dont condone all apple's actions first off. Doctoring the galaxy to look like a iphone was very wrong! However tracking down your lost phone and searching for it with the police and the permision of whoever's house it was well im ok with that!
32. Heatfan316 (Posts: 492; Member since: 21 Aug 2011)
They gave them permission because that person was innocent so how in the hell did apple track in there.
34. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
They made a mistake. It was the wring house.
72. MAS10X (Posts: 38; Member since: 26 Jul 2011)
So Apple can make mistakes??? I thought they were a perfect company
47. remixfa (Posts: 14251; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
biophone, there is nothing in the article that says the guy KNEW it was apple security. And the guy that did the search was retired police. Apple security has no rights to search and seizure with or without a warrant, they are not the police.. end of debate.
63. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
It was the police and apple security. The police should of handeled it but they didnt. They should of said we will search for it. They let apple do it. Whose fault is it.
31. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
If someone stole your phone and yoU went to the person's house you thought stole it with the police and asked if yiu could look and they said yes whats wrong with that. If they didnt have a warrent he could say get out and you would have to.
33. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
I think part of the problem you have with me is I dont always post when i think apple is wrong.this is because if apple is wrong this site is so pro android that it has been said 100 times si why would i repeat it. If apple is right the only one defending them is taco and miz who wjll defend them no matter what!
35. Heatfan316 (Posts: 492; Member since: 21 Aug 2011)
Biophone there is nothing wrong with likening apple products they make great products but they're evil, they are an evil company and I'm not just saying that because I'm an android fan its the truth
36. stealthd (Posts: 1004; Member since: 12 Jun 2011)
No one besides a fanboy would say anything like that.
38. Heatfan316 (Posts: 492; Member since: 21 Aug 2011)
What do you know stealthd you talk out of your ass all the time, just because I don't like the company doesn't mean I hate the products they make
37. biophone (Posts: 1898; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Im an android fan as well. I Have only had 1 iphone and tons of androids. However i do like apple as i feel ios and android is the best. I just hate samsung is all. Apple is not a evil company don't even go there!
48. remixfa (Posts: 14251; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
if there was a company that had a track record of doing bad things.. ACTUAL bad things, not copying icon coloring, its apple.
its amazing, u hate samsung for daring to look like an iphone with some if its UI, but you have no qualms about all the dead bodies and constitutional violations at apples doorstep.
that sir, is a true blind iDiot fanboy right there. killing people is ok, having similar icons.. OMG!
52. E.N. (Posts: 2404; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)
What's up with this obsession over Apple? Get over yourselves. When Apple lost the phone, all you guys were saying was that Apple was just crazy for attention. Then rumors came in that the story was false and that Apple made up the entire story you guys were screaming things like lawsuit or illegal or whatever. Now it turns out that Apple was legitimate and that they had permission and now it seems like it's an even bigger problem.
It says four SFPD officers went in there with employees so what's the big deal?!?! Apple is definitely not an angel, but stop nit-picking at every damn thing.