Apple did not infringe on Samsung patents says ITC judge
0. phoneArena 14 Sep 2012, 16:03 posted on
In a preliminary ruling made on Friday,an ITC judge ruled that Apple did not infringe on Samsung patents while producing products like the Apple iPhone and the Apple iPad; Samsung had filed a claim in the middle of last year saying that Apple had infringed on four of its patents...
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79. oister85 (Posts: 487; Member since: 27 Apr 2012)
What are you saying apple is the one trying to stop the competition in court .apple is the one who started
91. mrochester (unregistered)
Apple is the one who started what? Court cases over patents have been going on for years, long before Apple ever entered the smartphone market.
19. jmoita2 (Posts: 930; Member since: 23 Dec 2011)
The judge probably has a fat "numbered" Swiss bank account.
16. tedkord (Posts: 10915; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
The LTE patents aren't FRAND, which it may surprise you to learn, doesn't stand for Free Is Reasonable if Apple Needs it for Devices.
20. mrochester (unregistered)
I'd be surprised if LTE patents aren't yet FRAND, although they may still be in the process of being ratified. FRAND stands for Fair, Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory.
28. nicholassss (Posts: 368; Member since: 10 May 2012)
its "fair and reasonable" to patent a phones shape but not how it actually works?
I'm gonna have to agree, this troll is smokin something.
35. mrochester (unregistered)
It's perfectly reasonable to patent how a phone works, I haven't said anything to the contrary.
What's not reasonable is blocking your competitors from using technology that is industry standard. Contrary to that of course is that it's perfectly reasonable to block your competitors from using things that aren't industry standard (because that leads to innovation).
42. nicholassss (Posts: 368; Member since: 10 May 2012)
I'm just saying LTE (rrently or 3g to to keep with the article) seems like less of an industry standard than a rectangle man or rubber banding on a scrolling nonsense.
49. mrochester (unregistered)
3G and LTE are industry standards. They have to be else we'd have mobile devices and networks that were completely incompatible with each other. Nokia would have their own devices and network which in turn would be completely different and incompatible with Motorola's devices and network, etc etc.
However, making your tablet look a certain way, or having a rubber banding scrollback are not industry standards. Samsung don't need to have a rubber banding scrollback to be able to successfully make and sell products in the global market. This is why Apple have been able to sue, and win, to prevent Samsung from using this. Samsung should either have licensed this from Apple, or come up with their own way of indicating that you've reached the end of a scrollable list.
74. pegasso (Posts: 273; Member since: 27 Nov 2011)
it's true, 3G is industry standard, but it's not free.
some companies (Qualcomm, NTT, etc) hold the patents, and every manufacturers that using 3G network must pay to them.
that's the reason why China develop its own 3G standard (TDSCDMA) to avoid paying license.
same things happen to LTE patent.. it's not free.
92. mrochester (unregistered)
Of course it's not free; the patent holders are perfectly entitled to receive a fee for their work. The problem arrises when a patent holder refuses a fee and instead wants your product banned and removed from the shelves. This is the anti-competitive behaviour.
51. HouTexan (Posts: 439; Member since: 08 Jan 2012)
So, you really think it's ok for Apple to sue over a damn rectangle?! That's acceptable?! Wow! And, Apple copies and steals all of the damn time. Does anyone complain? No! Because, it's competition. Instead they litigate. So, Samsung is firing back at them for being petty.
61. mrochester (unregistered)
I don't think Apple should be able to sue over a rectangle, nor do I think that they have. What they have sued over is a rectangle that was made to look remarkably like the rectangle they made, and in Apple's eyes, lost them money as a result of Samsung piggy backing on their destinctive designs.
Do other companies sue Apple? Yes, all the time. Litigation is a perfectly normal part of conducting business. Do companies let infringements slide? Yes, I'm fairly certain they do as long as they aren't deemed to be important enough to the financial success and security of the company. Was Samsung's infringement on Apple's patents and designs a small enough deal for Apple to just let it slide? Obviously not.
86. shuaibhere (Posts: 1986; Member since: 07 Jul 2012)
I think u haven't seen lg prada....which was released a year before first iphone and had same design as iphone had....did lg sue apple....no....
How the heck can apple sue samsung for what they already copied.....
93. mrochester (unregistered)
I guess LG didn't sue because LG don't own the required patents and designs to actually do so? You have to own these things first before you're able to sue someone for using them without your permission.
67. mrochester (unregistered)
Interestingly I have just read than 50 companies have so far declared that they hold essential patents for the LTE standard.
83. androidrockzz (Posts: 51; Member since: 04 Feb 2012)
samsung fans i just want to know whether the scroll down menu bar is samsung's touchwiz?? or for andorid devices but what ever Apple has copied the same scroll down menu bar isn't that a copy????
97. dmckay12 (Posts: 243; Member since: 25 Feb 2012)
It seems to be, but the patent for Android's drop down menu has not been approved yet. Google applied for it a few years ago.
117. bayusuputra (Posts: 961; Member since: 12 Feb 2012)
soooo, a real tech patent such as LTE should not be used but freaking stupid design patent should be used..
daymn, tell me where did you get that crack, bro..
I need one before i buy the iPhone 5, so I will be delusional right before i get it.. otherwise, I will regret not getting a better phone from 2011..
22. MartyK (Posts: 808; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
Hum, this is no surprise, could you imagine the type of money that would be lost in the stock market if they actually gave Samsung a fair shot?.
Apple Stock would plummet, the money all these Judges and politics have invested in Apple would disappear...
Samsung only fair shot/ revenue is to sell to China (1 billion + people) and get Apple ban from that market.
25. mrochester (unregistered)
What's with all the conspiracy theories? There are checks and balances in place to prevent these exact situations from happening. No, the judges, jury, foreman, janiter, canteen chef and waiting staff haven't all been bribed, it's simply that Apple didn't violate any of Samsung's patents. Samsung did got a fair shot, they simply lost.
27. chaoticrazor (Posts: 2347; Member since: 28 Aug 2012)
mate this is the one of the only times i'll say there are back handers and money been passed round so that apple come out squeeky clean.
apple want complete control, there like a child , if there told no or someone has something better then them they throw a tantrum and sue
basically Apple, if you cant keep up and compete well go quietly into the pages of history and let others raise the tech bar
41. mrochester (unregistered)
I'm sorry but this is just pure fantasy. You're simply inventing stories as a means to vilify Apple and vindicate Samsung, for whatever reason you feel it necessary to do so.
82. E.N. (Posts: 2610; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)
These guys are crazy to honestly believe that money being passed around and bribing is happening. Why is it that Apple didn't win all of their suits? Oh! It was because it would be way too obvious that they were cheating the system, so they had to pretend to lose some. Got it!
Apple won, Samsung lost. Get over it. You guys are the biggest sore losers that I have ever seen in my life.
34. jmoita2 (Posts: 930; Member since: 23 Dec 2011)
The downfall of Apple is inevitable. They are on the same path Rim was on about 5 years ago...
50. mrochester (unregistered)
It's much the same as the downfall of Samsung is inevitable. The length or your success and how fast you fall are the interesting points. I wonder out of Samsung and Apple who will fall first? Neither show any sign of slowing down just now, that's for sure, so I think it's a bit too early to make any predictions!
52. chaoticrazor (Posts: 2347; Member since: 28 Aug 2012)
well seeing as apple are crapping on every other company i can make an educated guess.
68. mrochester (unregistered)
I think it's too difficult to tell because both companies are still growing at a phenomenal rate; it'll only be when the rate of growth starts to slow that I think we'll get some insight.
99. BlacRaZredge (Posts: 36; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
samsung has something going for them thou. they make more then just phones. they are like a swiss army knife company. they make everything from a toaster to the most elaborate machines in the world. samsung isnt going to fail because their android phones fall off. hell they have windows too which they have a even greater relationship with. what does apple have? computers and phones. and who buys apple tv anyways. apple will lose steam but not unless someone stands up to the plate, but wait google, windows, and linux are. they are making some great products to compete and crush apple.
58. gallitoking (Posts: 4718; Member since: 17 May 2011)
those Judges made the right choice.. and protected Americans from a company like HTC that is struggling to produce some kind of profits and are making bogus claims.. I now feel better and secure... and my kids will continue to enjoy the freedom to buy an iphone..
60. gallitoking (Posts: 4718; Member since: 17 May 2011)
sorry Americans the company making bogus claims is Samsung..not HTC
64. chaoticrazor (Posts: 2347; Member since: 28 Aug 2012)
ohh mate do you just come up with this crap or do you work hard on saying the stupidest things your can
you have to be the worst kind of ifan, you will justify and accept anything apple does because in some way you feel you are apart of Apple.
in your eyes its ok only if Apple win, i have my fingers crossed the courts do there job right and see that apple did wrong, HTC and Samsung held LTE patents before apple and when apple heard HTC were going to sue what did they do ohh yes they did what there best at went and brought as many patents as they could
If apple keeps this up they'll be the death of innovation and tech advancement
70. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4039; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)
You know what, at this point I hope apple wins all these cases. And if they drive out the competition and all we're left with is apple and Microsoft, they'll treat consumers just like they did in the nineties. A duopoly with each agreeing to work with rather than compete against each other.
Even Wozniak, who's more responsible for apple than Jobs was, said these lawsuits are ridiculous. He's the man who actually designed and built apple's first computers, Jobs sold the units and came up with ideas, but it was Wozniak who had to figure out how to make those ideas happen. He's the apple guy we should be listening to.
78. willard12 (Posts: 1624; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
You do realize that Motorola is an American company that Apple is forcing to destroy phones in Germany because of scroll bounce. Also, you do realize Google/Android is an American company trying to push their OS to foreign firms and Apple wants to go "thermonuclear" on them. Don't wrap yourself in the American flag over Apple. Instead of rejoicing that 68% of the smart phones in the world are running on an American OS, you support its destruction. As Americans, we believe in freedom, does Apple (see your locked down IOS while you ponder that)?
72. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)
looks like you still don't like competition just like the greedy scared fruit
69. prakesh (Posts: 92; Member since: 13 Sep 2012)
once they banned apple in u.s they losing something. so they would have to protect their assets
71. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)
this patent IS COMPLETELY B.S. Apple is definitely paying someone AT ITC trying not to get fine
73. zackh121556 (Posts: 101; Member since: 01 Feb 2012)
SAMSUNG WILL WAIT TO FILE ON THE LTE PATENTS...NEED TO WAIT FOR APPLE TO MAKE MORE MONEY FROM THE iSHEEP SO THE DOLLAR AMOUNT CAN GO UP. SAMSUNG WILL WIN BIG IF PLAYED RIGHT! GO SAMMY
80. Friendlysky (Posts: 54; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
Who is say the US is a clean country and not a corruption it's only a blindman would say that. This country money talk bus**t walk. Keep inmind we only have 350 millions there is 6 Billions people out there will see the US and they are not blind either.
81. bomariam1 (Posts: 30; Member since: 08 May 2012)
Yep I said it before and I will say it again, leave American with their iPhone.
And sell your product eelsewhere.
84. bucky (Posts: 2491; Member since: 30 Sep 2009)
I love reading these articles for all the crazy dummies crying over phones. Both companies will continue to rape you (or should I say your parents) for all the money you got. It's like apple personally offended you-Samsung is doing the same thing apple is, making money.
Pick the OS best for you and get a life.
87. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4039; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)
I have no problem with these companies making money, that's what they're supposed to do. What I have a problem with is when one company tries to force other companies out of the market, thereby limiting my choices. I don't mind if someone likes apple, if that's what works for them that's great. But when people support a company that seems hellbent on taking away choices from people who aren't interested in their product, that's what I have a problem with. The ruling against Moto in Germany allows apple to have the infringing devices destroyed and also let's them take them back from people who already shelled out their hard earned money for them. They claim these patents are stolen, but they're okay with stealing from the consumer. That's hippocrosy on the highest level in my opinion.
And just so you know, my parents didn't buy anything for me. I'm 36 and semi retired. Maybe most of the people on here are younger, but not all of us are.
94. mrochester (unregistered)
I think in Apple's eyes those choices they are trying to take away from you are choices that you should never have had in the first place if the company making the product hadn't infrigement on Apple's designs and patents. People seem to get terribly upset with Apple now asserting their ownership of these things and having them taken away. Why is it never the company who has actually infringed that these people are upset with? Why are people not upset with Samsung for copying so much from Apple? Why is it Apple who are the bad guys for stopping Samsung from copying?
It seems that so many people have this whole thing completely back to front.
100. BlacRaZredge (Posts: 36; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
Because apple hasnt changed much since it started. same with the ipad. all their products look alike. so the chances of another device looking like the iphone or ipad is greater. just because it looks the same doesnt mean that its the same thing. apple needs to slow its role and worry about what their customers want and not worry about everyone else. on another note apple is afraid to loose the top spot like anyone else is, in this giant game of king of the hill.
110. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4039; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)
Read up on apple a little bit. They are as guilty of infringing and stealing ideas as anyone else. But as far as anyone today is concerned apple is the victim. The most famous is them ripping off Xerox's gui. They also got in trouble for ripping off the menu system for an mp3 player on their ipod with Creative Labs, who they settled out of court with. They lost to Nokia for patent infringement in court and are now paying them royalties for infringing. So apple isn't the innocent here either. But for whatever reason when apple does something it gets overlooked.
The original Galaxy S was to close to the iphone, most everyone gets that, but what apple's asking for in most of these suits is getting ridiculous. The patent system is there to ensure that someone gets compensated for their work, not to be used as a tool to eliminate your competition from the market. In my last post I referenced the Moto/Apple trial in Germany. In that apple has the opportunity to destroy hundreds of thousands of unsold handsets, and sieze units that have been sold from their owners, all for the rubber banding effect. Since this is a permanent injunction, moto can't simply offer a software update to remove the infringing part of the software. And that's what apple does every time, it goes for the jugular aka banning. The infringing companies should be paying them a licensing fee, and if they refuse THEN ban them. On the other side when apple is using FRAND based patents, they try to strong arm them into licensing it to them for less than what everyone else pays for them. Part of FRAND is that the licensing fee must be the same foreach licensee, but apparently apple thinks they deserve special treatment.
I've even had people tell me that doesn't matter, that it's unpatriotic to support a foreign based company over an american one. All apple has here is Cupertino and their apple store employees. Samsung has a manufacturing plant. Apple also keeps a huge amount of money offshore to avoid paying taxes on it. They absolutely refuse to move their manufacturing here to the states because as Jobs said "americans couldn't put out enough units for their needs and weren't smart enough for the job." That was the just of what he told the president when asked what it would take to bring manufacturing here to the US.
I am not saying that any of the android oems are innocent, but to be fair you can't overlook what apple does either. Each of them is as guilty as the other.
95. jael206 (Posts: 145; Member since: 18 Jul 2012)
hey apple! hey apple hey... KNIFE!!
104. hinz10 (Posts: 15; Member since: 12 Sep 2012)
God Bless America, Apple is truely in bed with those that have the power in the States. So glad its not so in Europe! Samsumg, Htc, Nokia should just pull out of the states and concentrate on the rest of us ,in the free world. Maybe then those that seem to run things across the pond, might wake up and smell the coffee.
111. willard12 (Posts: 1624; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
You may have noticed that Apple just won in Germany over Motorola. The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 is now the 10.1N in Germany. Since Android is American, I don't think it's fair to say Europe is innocent. Apple has essenttally won 1 major case against Samsung that will likely be overturned on appeal in the US.
108. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
Samsung, you will never win here in the USA. There is NO damb way Apple will ever be band. They've got backing all over the place.
113. BomberXL (Posts: 82; Member since: 17 Jan 2012)
114. Astreo (Posts: 102; Member since: 05 May 2011)
Every single time that apple doesnt lose a case it seems the fandroids stick to the over used " paid by apple " excuse. did you think maybe, just maybe, that they are winning because they arent doing anything wrong ? god this site is starting to get old with the same crap on every single article. its a damn operating system you retards, nothing to honestly argue about.
115. chaoticrazor (Posts: 2347; Member since: 28 Aug 2012)
nothing to argue about, yet you just had a little rant about it
this is a site for people to discuss and say there opinion, sure there will be over the top ifans and fandroids but you just gotta deal with it
secondly you dont have to be an expert to see apple are just buying and putenting stupid things in a attempt to slow there competion becuase as proven there new iphone isnt better then samsungs flagship
and lastly calling people retards, well your the only one looking like that right now so if you dont like it dont come on the site simple
118. BomberXL (Posts: 82; Member since: 17 Jan 2012)
you cant be serious. there are so many things wrong with your statement.. its rediculous. heres a couple...
1: this is a forum...do you understand the purpose of a forum? i wont explain that..
2: if these werent cases to argue about... why is Samsung taken to court in the first place? Maybe because Apple likes to start up the arguments? id say so...
3: and why are you on this site if its "always the same crap on every article". im sure your excuse is something along the lines of "this sight has interesting information, or articles, or is your right just as much as anyone elses to be on." if thats the case, you learn to either ignore the argument, or stay, and dispute your opinion.
4: and finally... just an operating system? on this kind of website? thats like going to a comic book convention and saying "why are you all dressed up like the characters, its just about books". well. listen.. this is a forum of individuals who's very interest in life is to talk about these things. when you want ice cream, you go to an ice cream shop, and when you want to talk about mobile operating systems, you go to phone arena.