Apple asks court to sanction Samsung for leaking word of secret Nokia-Apple patent license
U.S. Magistrate Paul Grewal, whose name has been mentioned by us many times before pertaining to Apple and Samsung legal issues, has set up a hearing for October 22nd. Before that date, Samsung executive Dr. Seungho Ahn, who was one of the recipients of the un-redacted confidential material, must sit for a deposition. Ahn, who is likely to take a real grilling from Apple's legal team, apparently used the confidential Apple-Nokia information in an attempt to win better terms from Nokia during Samsung's licensing negotiations with the Finnish based firm. Apple is asking the court to sanction Samsung for its actions.
Mr. Melin recounts that to prove to Nokia that he knew the confidential terms of the Apple-Nokia license, Dr. Ahn recited the terms of the license, and even went so far as to tell Nokia that “all information leaks.” Mr. Melin also reports that Dr. Ahn and Samsung then proceeded to use his knowledge of the terms of the Apple- Nokia license to gain an unfair advantage in their negotiations with Nokia, by asserting that the Apple-Nokia terms should dictate terms of a Samsung-Nokia license."-Apple's filing with the U.S. District Court
source: Scribd, FOSSPatents via AllThingsD
1. rawbow (Posts: 409; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
Typical Sammy, do whatever they can to snoop their noses in for the next biggest direction for their devices.
8. WHoyton1 (Posts: 1619; Member since: 21 Feb 2013)
your supporting samsung!!!! all they have done here is exposed some documents which lets face it arent that important and if anything make for a more exciting news day!!
10. rawbow (Posts: 409; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
aren't that important you say? Read comment #5 by Googler. I really don't wanna spell it out to you.
Too many "!" , stop being so amazed all the time lol. Contrary to your beliefs, there are people who have a rational opinion on matters that exceeds your bounds of understanding.
11. WHoyton1 (Posts: 1619; Member since: 21 Feb 2013)
haha, your unbelievable dude, are you that blind how does goooglers comment say anything about the importance of the information! Personally im glad samsung does this stops Nokia and Apple teaming up which means more competition!
12. rawbow (Posts: 409; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
you're* , thought it was a typo with your previous post... His/Her Comment #5 is practical. You are being defensive, which proves the aforesaid point.
20. androiphone20 (Posts: 1401; Member since: 10 Jul 2013)
you must be bats**t crazy wtf are you talking about? what is not important???
22. Jobayer (Posts: 93; Member since: 22 Feb 2013)
okey if u dont like this news dont read it and u dont need to comment on it either ,read other articles -_-.
17. dsDoan (Posts: 216; Member since: 28 Dec 2011)
How is a patent license the next biggest direction?
30. rusticguy (Posts: 2826; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
Look at it this way. NOKIA is sharing the BED with Apple. Samsung just exposed it so the gigolo is upset over it. So now SAMSUNG should SUE NOKIA for leaking it back to Apple?
3. lthawker (Posts: 3; Member since: 05 Sep 2013)
Commoon...apple...try to be man...stop crying...
6. THE.DARK.KNIGHT (banned) (Posts: 269; Member since: 09 Sep 2013)
Apple looks very cheap right? Try to think from the company's point of view. If you owned (I know it's a public limited company) apple and if apple was your company you would find ways of spoiling things for your competitors
16. madmikepr (Posts: 99; Member since: 09 Aug 2011)
i see your point of view but apple sometimes they not trying to defend there trying to eliminate the competition and competition is good for the costumers if there were no competition we will be stuck with a ip3gs only with a better screen...
23. Jobayer (Posts: 93; Member since: 22 Feb 2013)
this is being a man i am not apple fan boy, but i believe standing up for whats wrong is maning up and not being a crying baby blaming ppl .settle everything in court not fight like some gangs :D
4. GrapeEyes (Posts: 243; Member since: 01 Sep 2013)
As long as the consumers get amazing devices at affordable prices, I don't care!!
39. maysider (Posts: 38; Member since: 11 Aug 2013)
Apple is always trying to stop that.....so never support Apple or Microsoft to keep a competitive environment
5. Googler (Posts: 813; Member since: 10 Jun 2013)
If that's true then SS needs to be penalized for this. Unfortunately the problem with organizations the size of Apple and SS, the money that can be levied for fines ends up being minuscule in comparison to their total overhead. If this suit is true, I'm sure there was a debate by SS on how much they can be fined compared to how much they'll gain from the information. In the end it always comes down to the money.
14. jdoee100 (Posts: 305; Member since: 04 Jun 2013)
Samsung should be penalized for what?? Did Samsung infringe on Apple's patent? This is between Nokia and Samsung. I can understand Nokia asking for sanction against Samsung, but Apple?
29. Googler (Posts: 813; Member since: 10 Jun 2013)
Try reading the article, it's not just about Nokia.
9. VZWuser76 (Posts: 1322; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)
I'm not saying anyone is in the right here, but... What kind of patents were being licensed? If they are FRAND patents (which were what Nokia brought against Apple when the two went to court), shouldn't they be licensed under the same terms as they were to Apple? That was Apple's entire argument against Samsung was that they were asking more from Apple than they were from others. So was Nokia trying to do the same thing to Samsung as what Samsung tried to do to Apple? And shouldn't Nokia be the one bringing this to the court's attention, since they will be the one affected?
This is why I have always said, they NEED a uniform system for patent licensing. If there was a set amount for what these companies could charge, the only time they'd need to go to court would be if someone was using them without permission. I just don't get why this is such an alien concept. You could have different tiers based on the importance of the patent, with different fees in each tier. F-ing simple.
13. ibap (Posts: 692; Member since: 09 Sep 2009)
Wait a minute. Someone gave Samsung access to documents that they shouldn't have been given. So who is at fault? Apple's attorneys? Nokia's? Samsung's? It is not clear from either this piece or others I quickly looked at. If it was, as this piece states, "Samsung's outside legal team" - then they should be the ones in hot water. Or were the unredacted documents deliberately put in Samsung's face to create this situation?
26. tedkord (Posts: 4537; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
The documents were confidential and the lawyers were legally not allowed to pass the information on.
Samsung is in the wrong here and should be slapped down. Hard.
15. Penywyz (banned) (Posts: 255; Member since: 13 Aug 2013)
Big Business is ugly, but if Samsung did indeed do something illegal they need to be punished.
18. MartyK (Posts: 703; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
So, let me take a stab at it:
Samsung found out that Apple & Nokia (Microsoft) had a secret agreement when it came to services and Patents.
Samsung went to Microsoft to tell them they are wrong for giving Apple a better deal then they gave Samsung.
Samsung should be penalize because they want the same or better deal as Apple is getting from Microsoft.
And Samsung is wrong how again?, because if you notice, Apple haven't try to sue Nokia for anything because the two are in bed together...Samsung done the right thing!! except I would had release to every OEMs so they can see how dirty and under handed Microsoft is ..
19. MartyK (Posts: 703; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
So the ONLY companies that would be push Window OS phone would be Nokia and Apple..
Could you imagine is Moto gave every OEM who use Android a discount on their frand patent and charge Apple & Microsoft a higher amount?...
41. ddady (Posts: 2; Member since: 07 Oct 2013)
You tried to take a stab at it, and ended up stabbing yourself and looking like an idiot. I seriously couldn't believe how many factual errors a person can make in such a short post, it would be easier to just point out the correct parts. I'll break it down for you:
"Samsung found out that Apple & Nokia (Microsoft) had a secret agreement when it came to services and Patents."
- You make it sound like a backroom deal where the existence of the deal is a secret. The deal between Apple and Nokia was publicly announced and widely reported. The terms of the deal however were confidential. Secondly, Nokia is not Microsoft, and Microsoft is not Nokia. While both companies announced Microsoft acquisition of Nokia's device and services division, the deal is not yet completed and hasn't even gone through shareholder approval. Secondly, the deal does not include the sale of the patent division. Even if the sale has been completed, the matter still only concerns Nokia and Samsung.
"Samsung went to Microsoft to tell them they are wrong for giving Apple a better deal then they gave Samsung."
- NOKIA not Microsoft is not under any obliglation to license their patents to Samsung because the patents in questions are not all FRAND. How do I know this? Try reading the original lawsuit Nokia filed against Apple.
"Samsung should be penalize because they want the same or better deal as Apple is getting from Microsoft."
- No. Samsung shouldn't be "penalized". The patent market is quite similar to any other market. You pay a licensing fee for access to technology you cannot get elsewhere. If a comparable solution is on the market, Samsung is free to go about a license it from another entity or develop their own workaround that doesn't infringe on others patents.
"And Samsung is wrong how again?, because if you notice, Apple haven't try to sue Nokia for anything because the two are in bed together...Samsung done the right thing!! except I would had release to every OEMs so they can see how dirty and under handed Microsoft is .."
- The judge that compelled Apple to turn over documents to Samsung's lawyers with strict instructions that Samsung couldn't use the documents in the way that they did. Yet you ask how is Samsung wrong?
- Apple did try to sue Nokia (counter sue) in the original trial in which Apple lost and agreed limited access to their patents and a licensing fee to Nokia.
- If Samsung did release the documents to every single OEM, the damages to Nokia and Apple would be so large, it could potentially bankrupt their entire operation. Currently, there are more than 20 Android manufacturers paying royalties to Microsoft collecting approximately 3.4 billion in licensing fees and it's expected to grow to 8.8 billion by 2017. Nokia would be seeking an even higher amount after the sale of the device division due to them not having to fear countersuits.
42. ddady (Posts: 2; Member since: 07 Oct 2013)
"Could you imagine is Moto gave every OEM who use Android a discount on their frand patent and charge Apple & Microsoft a higher amount?..."
-I don't have to imagine, because it has already happened. Motorola demanded Microsoft pay a 4 billion/year licensing fee on frand patents and was award 1.8 million as a result of the trial. To top it off, Motorola had to pay 14.5 million in damages to Microsoft for doing exactly what you asking someone to imagine.
Can you count how many times you were factually correct about something in your post?
24. Jobayer (Posts: 93; Member since: 22 Feb 2013)
dude seriously u need bio cls >_< and common sense .
31. MartyK (Posts: 703; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
Dude seriously, you need to bring an adult arguement to the table.
Why can't you defend your position instead of childish drawing of pictures.
Common sense you say?, you apparently lack this ability, because if you have been following and reading, every arguement MS and Apple have been complaint about World Wide ( EU-US-ASIA-AfricA) HAS BEEN DIRECTED AT FRAND Abuse by MOTOROLA.
ANd to find out they have been doing a little underhand dealing and Samsung isn't supposed to speak up?..c'mon man.
21. Troysyx (Posts: 138; Member since: 30 Jul 2012)
I'm so tired of all this b*itching by both companies. I won't be buying products from Apple or Samsung. That's called having options. Enjoy not getting my money anymore you two
32. Muzhhur (Posts: 244; Member since: 14 Sep 2012)
still Samsungs and koreans feel over the top... shame samsung! Shame on you!
33. _Bone_ (Posts: 2114; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
Did Sammy haters just overtook Apple haters?
Comes with the territory I guess.
34. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 6283; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)
Apple NEEDS to quit BEING A bytch in court
35. luxzy801 (Posts: 134; Member since: 16 Jun 2010)
I cant really say Samsung is at fault here because we dont know all of the details about this.
Usually there are confidentiality agreements and rules and regulations within each corporation about confidential information.
If this information was given to Sammy by court proceedings on a basis of non-confidentiality (Which would mean that it could be released to, say, the public) then Sammy did not do anything wrong.
However, if Sammy took confidential information and leaked it without permission to release such information or use it to benefit their own without adhering to the confidentiality agreements then it is no different than the US's much hated Edward Snowden...
So without proper information as to where, when and how Sammy aquired such confidential data, then we cant really blame anybody. But I guess all the Apple and Samsung fanboys will still battle it out like its world war three with no good reason for it anyway.
36. nothingmuch (Posts: 163; Member since: 03 May 2013)
its not the full story, its one-sided so far... lets wait to see what the court does before we all assume who's wrong here. K
38. zennacko (Posts: 227; Member since: 16 Jun 2013)
Am I the only one amazed by the secret patent thing?
40. vikingsfootball09 (Posts: 41; Member since: 02 Oct 2013)
im wondering how and why samsungs lawyer had access to these confidential documents? who gave them authroized access? what type of gains would the samsung lawyers get from these documents? why even give access to these confidential documents to the samsung lawyer(s)?
if the samsung lawyer leaked these documents, then shouldnt the lawyer be the one in hot waters? instead of calling out samsung as a spy?